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Post by Cei-U! on Oct 7, 2022 8:00:29 GMT -5
A research question: without looking it up, which American comic book adventure characters can you name who were adapted into movie serials? Not comic strip or radio characters who also appeared in comics (such as Green Hornet and Captain Midnight) but the ones who originated in comic books, like (and here's a couple of gimmes!) Superman and Captain Marvel? Again, from memory only, please, I've got a reason for asking! From memory only, as per your reqest: Superman. Batman. Captain Marvel. Captain America. Spy Smasher. Blackhawk. The Vigilante. Congo Bill. Dick Cole (the Novelty Press character). Hop Harrigan?
Cei-U! I summon the brain calisthenics!
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Oct 7, 2022 9:03:36 GMT -5
From memory, I can only come up with Blackhawk, Captain Marvel and Batman. Like Jon Snow, I know nothing.
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Post by tonebone on Oct 7, 2022 9:23:37 GMT -5
Does the Phantom count? He originated in comic STRIPS.
EDIT: Nevermind... one day I hope to read gooder.
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Post by MWGallaher on Oct 7, 2022 10:42:02 GMT -5
A research question: without looking it up, which American comic book adventure characters can you name who were adapted into movie serials? Not comic strip or radio characters who also appeared in comics (such as Green Hornet and Captain Midnight) but the ones who originated in comic books, like (and here's a couple of gimmes!) Superman and Captain Marvel? Again, from memory only, please, I've got a reason for asking! From memory only, as per your reqest: Superman. Batman. Captain Marvel. Captain America. Spy Smasher. Blackhawk. The Vigilante. Congo Bill. Dick Cole (the Novelty Press character). Hop Harrigan? Cei-U! I summon the brain calisthenics!
I can't find evidence of a Dick Cole film serial, but the rest, including, yes, Hop Harrigan, cover all the ones I was hoping/expecting to see mentioned. As it turns out, there is another, and I wanted some confirmation that I wasn't the only one who was up to now completely unaware of it. I'll be posting about that forgotten feature soon!
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Post by berkley on Oct 7, 2022 16:55:58 GMT -5
Nobody needed Gerber's permission to work on Man-Thing. By the time Moore could've written it, the original book had been cancelled and Gerber was gone. That said, I agree that Moore and Shooter could never have worked together. Maybe if Moore wrote for the Epic line under Goodwin... Cei-U! I summon the timeline!
I wasn't thinking that anyone needed Gerber's approval, just wondering if Moore personally would have wanted it, even though it wasn't Gerber's creation. He did have Wein's approval for his re-invention of ST, as far as I understand, and I think that was more important to him than who legally owned the rights to the character. But you and mrp are certainly correct that he couldn't have worked with someone like Shooter.
I might still find the question an interesting basis for speculation if I thought there were some Marvel character or concept he wanted to write and would have under the right circumstances, but I don't think there ever was any such character. So for me, I'm very happy he never worked for Marvel and as good as Swamp Thing was, I almost wish he'd never worked for DC either, even if that meant no Watchmen - which is quite possible.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 7, 2022 20:33:15 GMT -5
Comic Books: Captain America, The Adv of Captain Marvel, Spy Smasher, Hop Harrigan, The Vigilante, Congo Bill, Blackhawk, Superman, Batman and Robin
Comic Strips: Terry and the Pirates, The Phantom, Mandrake, Smilin' Jack, Red Ryder, Buck Rogers, Flash Gordon (3 serials), Brick Bradford, Dick Tracy
Pulps: The Shadow, The Spider and the Spider Returns, Drums of Fu Manchu, Jungle Girl (and, thereby, Nyoka), Tarzan, Zorro's Fighting Legion, Son of Zorro
Radio: Chandu, The Green Hornet and The Green Hornet Returns, Lone Ranger, Jack Armstrong
Off the top of my head.....
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Post by Prince Hal on Oct 7, 2022 21:37:51 GMT -5
Not sure if anyone mentioned this, MWGallaher, but I think there may have been a Blue Beetle serial. I could be wrong; my memory ain't what it used to be, as I recall.
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Post by tartanphantom on Oct 8, 2022 1:26:28 GMT -5
Not sure if anyone mentioned this, MWGallaher , but I think there may have been a Blue Beetle serial. I could be wrong; my memory ain't what it used to be, as I recall.
I know there was a Blue Beetle radio show, but was unaware of a serial.
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Post by Cei-U! on Oct 8, 2022 3:25:25 GMT -5
Not sure if anyone mentioned this, MWGallaher , but I think there may have been a Blue Beetle serial. I could be wrong; my memory ain't what it used to be, as I recall. Comic strip and radio series, yes. Serial, no.
Cei-U! I summon the four-color entomologist!
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Post by Prince Hal on Oct 8, 2022 7:38:53 GMT -5
Not sure if anyone mentioned this, MWGallaher , but I think there may have been a Blue Beetle serial. I could be wrong; my memory ain't what it used to be, as I recall. Comic strip and radio series, yes. Serial, no.
Cei-U! I summon the four-color entomologist!
I was thinking about the radio show.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Oct 8, 2022 13:09:41 GMT -5
I feel daft about not remembering the Captain America one, since it was referred to in the comics!
But then feeling daft is part of my daily routine.
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Post by MWGallaher on Oct 8, 2022 14:49:10 GMT -5
As those of you who read my jungle comics threads now know, there was also Magazine Enterprise's Thun'da in "King of the Congo". It was released after the "Golden Age of Serials", but based on the first two installments, it's a pretty good one. Interestingly, the first American serial with sound was "King of the Kongo" with a 'K'. Unrelated to the later film.
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Post by zaku on Oct 10, 2022 8:41:23 GMT -5
After the "what-if" question about Alan Moore, I have another one: Was Pre-Coie Superman salvageable?I explain better the context of this question, which arises from a discussion I had some time ago on an Italian forum. Here another user stated that there was absolutely no need for a full Superman reboot and thus to lose decades of his rich history. It would have been enough to call new artists and new writers without having to do a total reset of its continuity (remember that The Man of Steel together with Wonder Woman were the only ones to have a total reboot after COIE). In support of his theory he explained that: 1) other comics of the time (Daredevil, Fantastic Four, Thor, etc) managed to attract new readers thanks to the new talents who worked on them without having to give up their rich history (so it was not the fear of a too complex continuity to keep readers away). 2) Alan Moore managed to make excellent stories with this version of the character, so he wasn't too "old-fashioned" or anything for modern times. My objections were: 1) that, well, not everyone is Alan Moore. They had called Wolfman in 1983 to revive the character and it was absolutely useless. 2) Superman, ethically and morally, was absolutely a disaster for the revisionism of the 1980s. He was the man who proudly did this and this Imagine some feminist writer from the British underground comics scene who would have enjoyed making Kara say, "Kal, can you explain to me exactly why abandoning a traumatized alien girl (who was also your cousin) in an orphanage, literally minutes after she landed on another planet, with the justification that you couldn't be bothered was it NOT an act of super-patriarchy? You know, at the time I was a terrified little girl who trusted her cousin, who was also the only one survived his planet and therefore I had not asked any questions, but now that I am an adult woman with my agency I have this curiosity ..." His counter-objection was to, well, simply discard the most problematic part of his history (you can say that 90% of his acts of super-dickery happened during the Silver Age) but I think that some parts of his history are so integral to his character (like the forenamed abandoning and the continue gas-lighting of Lois Lane) that was simpler to do a complete reboot. So, what are your thoughts on this subject? Was it possibile to continue with the same version of the character? Or was it a lost cause?
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Post by Cei-U! on Oct 10, 2022 10:01:50 GMT -5
I have to agree with your friend. There was no valid reason for the Crisis (ignoring for the moment the business justifications) beyond the laziness of those editots and writers who couldn't see the value in the multiple earths paradigm or be bothered to establish and follow certain ground rules.
I've long maintained that the best way to rejuvenate a tired character is not a full-fledged reboot but the approach used by David Michelinie and Bob Layton when they first took over Iron Man: keep the stuff that's working, ignore (not retcon) what doesn't, explore new aspects of the lead's personality/psyche/backstory, bring in a fresh new supporting cast (James Rhodes, Bethany Cabe, Mrs. Arbogast), create new villains (Justin Hammer), revamp the older ones, and keep the storylines moving forward instead of rehashing the past.
The ironic part of all that is that DC did try this approach with Superman in '71: they kept the stuff that was working, ignored the stuff that wasn't (Bizarro World, the Sduper-Pets, Big Blue's army of robot Supermen, the constant threat of kryptonite, most of the super-dickery), explored new aspects of Kal/Clark's personality (such as his loneliness and his eaction to having his power level reduced), added fresh new characters to his supporting cast (Morgan Edge, the WGBS crew, Clark's neighbors), created new villains and revamped some of the older ones. Unfortunately, they almost immediately began ignoring everything they'd done except Clark's switch from newspaper reprter to TV anchorman) until within a couple of years the Silver Age status quo had been almost completely restored.
So, my answer to your question is yes, it should've been possible to update Superman for a new generation of readers without throwing the baby out with the basthwater. They simply chose not to.
Cei-U! I summon the early morning musings!
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Post by zaku on Oct 10, 2022 10:22:25 GMT -5
I have to agree with your friend. There was no valid reason for the Crisis (ignoring for the moment the business justifications) beyond the laziness of those editots and writers who couldn't see the value in the multiple earths paradigm or be bothered to establish and follow certain ground rules. I've long maintained that the best way to rejuvenate a tired character is not a full-fledged reboot but the approach used by David Michelinie and Bob Layton when they first took over Iron Man: keep the stuff that's working, ignore ( not retcon) what doesn't, explore new aspects of the lead's personality/psyche/backstory, bring in a fresh new supporting cast (James Rhodes, Bethany Cabe, Mrs. Arbogast), create new villains (Justin Hammer), revamp the older ones, and keep the storylines moving forward instead of rehashing the past. The ironic part of all that is that DC did try this approach with Superman in '71: they kept the stuff that was working, ignored the stuff that wasn't (Bizarro World, the Sduper-Pets, Big Blue's army of robot Supermen, the constant threat of kryptonite, most of the super-dickery), explored new aspects of Kal/Clark's personality (such as his loneliness and his eaction to having his power level reduced), added fresh new characters to his supporting cast (Morgan Edge, the WGBS crew, Clark's neighbors), created new villains and revamped some of the older ones. Unfortunately, they almost immediately began ignoring everything they'd done except Clark's switch from newspaper reprter to TV anchorman) until within a couple of years the Silver Age status quo had been almost completely restored. So, my answer to your question is yes, it should've been possible to update Superman for a new generation of readers without throwing the baby out with the basthwater. They simply chose not to. Cei-U! I summon the early morning musings! Thank you, as always, your opinions are always very interesting and well reasoned! Just to add an element to my theory that a full reboot was better, in 1983 they actually tried to revive the character using the approach you proposed. Marv Wolfman was the new writer after the success of the New Teen Titans and new elements were introduced such as: 1) the breakup between Lois Lane and Superman 2) the beginning of a romantic relationship between Clark Kent and Lana Lang 3) the new look for Luthor and Braniac 4) The arrival of a new and dangerous villain (Vandal Savage). From what I was able to discover, all of this was absolutely useless in reviving the character. The only things people remember from that time are probably Lex Luthor's armor and robotic Braniac, but I suspect that's only thanks to the cartoons and toys. My opinion was that the character was no longer salvable, but I absolutely respect your absolutely sensible and legitimate point of view
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