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Post by commond on Jun 26, 2022 19:41:10 GMT -5
This is a thread where I'll throw out some questions and hopefully get some interesting takes from you guys. Feel free to add your own questions.
First up, who was better at war comics, Joe Kubert or Russ Heath?
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Post by MWGallaher on Jun 26, 2022 20:45:16 GMT -5
I'm sure that my opinion is influenced by overexposure--there was just so much Joe Kubert--but Heath's war comics wowed me in ways that Kubert didn't. War comics as a genre would have suffered far more without Kubert than without Heath, but I'd read the Heath story before the Kubert one.
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Post by Prince Hal on Jun 26, 2022 21:16:09 GMT -5
Loved 'em both. Both were excellent storytellers, and each an excellent artist, obviously. Heath was an illustrator, Kubert an expressionist/impressionist... if such a combo exists.
Heath drew every rivet on every Tiger tank or P-51 Mustang.
Kubert did raw emotion better than anyone.
I loved every story I read that each of them drew for the DC war line, but if forced to pick just one, I'd give the edge to Kubert for the emotion he imparted into his stories.
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Post by Mister Spaceman on Jun 26, 2022 21:52:39 GMT -5
Russ Heath. As Archie Goodwin wrote in an essay for the 1973 New York Comic Art Convention, Heath's war comics made you believe "nightmare moments of battle. And believing those, you also believe the quiet and reflective ones when the madness of war is questioned or commented on. Russ Heath’s artwork has made it too damn real not to.”  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2022 22:24:37 GMT -5
If you're asking for an objective evaluation, I'm not sure I can do it, my bias may be too strong for that. Russ Heath was an amazing artist who produced an incredible body of work, and I dig his stuff, but Kubert is on another level for me personally, as he sits in the top 2-3 creators of my own personal pantheon of comics makers. For me his war material, especially when he was writing as well as illustrating in later OGNs [like Dong Xoai or looking at the effects of war on the lives who lived through it like Fax From Sarajevo (the Balkan Wars) or Yossel (about the Concentration camps in WWII] hits harder for me. As Prince Hal mentioned, Kubert had a gift for packing emotion into his expressive style, which to me made his war stuff (especially the later OGNs) feel more visceral and have more of a gut punch effect when depicting the effects of war on the people involved. That said, I'm never disappointed to read a Russ Heath war book either. -M |
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Jun 26, 2022 22:27:05 GMT -5
"First up, who was better at war comics, Joe Kubert or Russ Heath?"
Both are excellant war genre artists with distinct styles. Art being subjective, comparisons are usually just personal choices
However, Joe Kubert, along with being an artist, also edited DC's War comics line for some years and also wrote some of his stories
Based on that, I'll call him better
Dang it- mrp out-flanked me with his comments as I was composing my own
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Post by MDG on Jun 27, 2022 8:51:09 GMT -5
Russ Heath. As Archie Goodwin wrote in an essay for the 1973 New York Comic Art Convention, Heath's war comics made you believe "nightmare moments of battle. And believing those, you also believe the quiet and reflective ones when the madness of war is questioned or commented on. Russ Heath’s artwork has made it too damn real not to.” You can't fault the Heath's ability, but I've used this story as an example of something being too photo-realistic. But that's some great acting by the lead character |
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Post by tarkintino on Jun 27, 2022 11:33:26 GMT -5
Russ Heath. As Archie Goodwin wrote in an essay for the 1973 New York Comic Art Convention, Heath's war comics made you believe "nightmare moments of battle. And believing those, you also believe the quiet and reflective ones when the madness of war is questioned or commented on. Russ Heath’s artwork has made it too damn real not to.” Kubert was a master at war-themed comics, but Heath's realism gave panels of a kind of silent, eerie quality one experiences in real life times of tragedy, which one would not necessarily get in more stylized work. |
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Post by tartanphantom on Jun 27, 2022 16:41:12 GMT -5
As much as I love Kubert (and I do), I have to give the slight nod to Heath...
Joe never illustrated 204 Revolutionary War Soldiers for $1.98... but Russ made you want to buy them...
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Post by Prince Hal on Jun 27, 2022 17:38:38 GMT -5
It was the art by Fred Ray (not that I knew who Fred was back then) in this ad from 1962 that made me hornswoggle and beleaguer my mother into sending a buck forty-nine to Carle Place Long Island for these Civil War soldiers. She warned me that it was a rip-off (or whatever was the '62 equivalent), but I wanted those soldiers. Remeber, we were deep into the centennial celbration of the War of Northern Aggression and I loved every minute of those five years.  And then they arrived, in that special "gun box." It was genuine non-corrugated cardboard and about as big as a quarterof a loaf of bread, if that.  The soldiers and equipment, as you can see, were essentially two-dimensional. I pretended I liked them. My mothe gloated only a little bit. Perhaps she knew that this purchase would transform me into the lifelong cynic I became as a result. I still love Fred Ray's art, though. I'm not that cynical. |
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Post by tarkintino on Jun 27, 2022 20:42:09 GMT -5
It was the art by Fred Ray (not that I knew who Fred was back then) in this ad from 1962 that made me hornswoggle and beleaguer my mother into sending a buck forty-nine to Carle Place Long Island for these Civil War soldiers. She warned me that it was a rip-off (or whatever was the '62 equivalent), but I wanted those soldiers. Remeber, we were deep into the centennial celbration of the War of Northern Aggression and I loved every minute of those five years. And then they arrived, in that special "gun box." It was genuine non-corrugated cardboard and about as big as a quarterof a loaf of bread, if that. The soldiers and equipment, as you can see, were essentially two-dimensional. I pretended I liked them. My mothe gloated only a little bit. Perhaps she knew that this purchase would transform me into the lifelong cynic I became as a result. I still love Fred Ray's art, though. I'm not that cynical. Sheesh--$1.49 for glorified silhouettes! |
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 27, 2022 21:00:25 GMT -5
I love both, but I love Heath more on war comics, while I love Kubert's work outside the genre. That said, I'm not sure how I would go with Heath vs Sam Glanzman. Glanzman did a ton of great work for Dell, DC, Charlton and Marvel, both personal and fictional. The economics of things often made him compromise a bit, since he hustled work more than Heath. Glanzaman didn't have to do as much of that with Dell or DC, compared to Charlton and he still gave more than many of the Charlton artists.
I'm more partial to Enemy Ace than Sgt Rock, for Kubert and more of the Rock material I like was drawn by Heath. Kubert did some of the famous stories; but, I had a lot more of Heath's individual issues.
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Post by commond on Jun 30, 2022 18:50:04 GMT -5
My next question may be a little strange, but bear with me...
From the Golden Age to the present, which period of American history do you think needed a Captain America the most?
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Post by majestic on Jun 30, 2022 19:23:49 GMT -5
My next question may be a little strange, but bear with me... From the Golden Age to the present, which period of American history do you think needed a Captain America the most? I think most would say WWII since his origin is tied to WWII. But my thoughts are anytime. America always needs someone that personifies hope and optimism. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 30, 2022 21:57:40 GMT -5
My next question may be a little strange, but bear with me... From the Golden Age to the present, which period of American history do you think needed a Captain America the most? I think the whole concept of Captain America personifies the American image of the WW2 period; certainly the Roosevelt view. Yes, there was the pre-Pearl Harbor isolationism; but, as Nazi Germany seemed to roll across Europe, a lot of that sentiment died away. Granted, William Stevenson and his bunch did a lot to try to influence public opinion; but, it didn't take that much persuading, in a lot of areas. Captain America excels when "right" vs "wrong" is more clearly delineated, as he is more of an archetype. The character has always struggled with murkier times, like the 50s and the 70s. The problem is, a patriotic hero takes on the qualities inferred by the reader, which can be both positive and negative. |
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