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Post by Cei-U! on May 7, 2022 6:34:25 GMT -5
Stan did occasionally use it, but only after it had become widespread among fanzine writers and other promoters of comics fandom.
Cei-U! I summon the precedent!
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2022 6:45:46 GMT -5
Who coined these names in the first place? In terms of etymology itself, it's what Edo and Confessor alluded to. Greek poet Hesiod (roughly contemporary to Homer) defined the "ages of man": en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_AgeSo a "Golden Age", like the "Golden Age of Hollywood" follows this concept. In terms of who applied to comic book eras, others have already weighed in, but again to me it's more just adapting this traditional nomenclature.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2022 6:48:43 GMT -5
Why didn't we call the next age the Iron Age? Yep, this would follow best.
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Post by spoon on May 7, 2022 10:26:29 GMT -5
A start doesn't mean everything changes overnight. Marvel's Silver Age didn’t star until 4 years after Showcase. Many DC books and some Marvel didn’t change until well into the Bronze Age. The Bronze Age brought a new sensibility that took time to take hold. I don't think it can be emphasized enough that, even when watershed events can be identified, transitions between age/period/eras of most things are overlaid over incremental changes. So a particular innovator/work can be both a watershed, but also part of a milieu of a bunch of people/developments that were moving in the same direction at different speeds. To some extent a line of demarcation is a matter of convenience. Having said, I think 1970 is a convenient point. I do, however, think that one could look through various comics from 1968 or 1969 and see the incremental tonal change, so I see the arguments for the Marvel Explosion option. Like the Steranko issues shortly after Tales of Suspense turned into Captain America feel different than a regular Silver Age comic. Similarly a Adams/Thomas issue of X-Men feels so different than Roth/Thomas. Also, I binged Green Lantern #1-224 (plus extras). While there's a huge change when GL/GA starts, it's not totally without antecedents. Hal's relationship with Carol disintegrates and he leaves Coast City, his job, and his supporting cast to find himself. There is a feeling of trying to break out of the mold into new directions, although nothing so dramatic as what O'Neill and Adams did. I know 1975 and Giant-Size X-Men was explained as just providing a late option for the poll, but that's clearly an example of an era being in full-swing rather than a starting point. I happened to read different 1970s Marvel back-to-back a year or so ago, and I was struck by how things I thought occurred simultaneously or after the All-New, All-Different X-Men actually preceded it, like Deathlok or Daimon Hellstrom. They both clearly Bronze Age, as are Punisher, Ghost Rider, and various other characters and series that came before the X-Men revival.
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Post by Farrar on May 7, 2022 16:25:21 GMT -5
Didn't Stan Lee use the term "Golden Age of Comics" a lot in the cover blurb of Marvel's 40s and 50s reprints in the early 60s? I kinda assumed it all stemmed from that, with 70s and 80s fandom expanding it to Silver Age etc as you suggest. DC actually used "Golden Age" on covers before Stan did, for example for Flash Annual #1, published in 1963; and Wonder Woman #156, published about 6 months before Stan started with the books you mention. In WW#156 the emergence of the comic book is explicitly acknowledged and for part of the story the Andru and Esposito art is in the style of H.G. Peter. And after this issue, WW #158-161 had a top banner proclaiming the comic was "Comic's (sic) Golden Age Returns." In these issues, Andru and Esposito still drew in the style of H.G. Peter, some Golden Age characters popped up, etc. WW's audience was dwindling and DC felt that using the Golden Age as a draw might have helped increase sales for the book. I guess it didn't work, as the experiment didn't last long.
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Post by Farrar on May 7, 2022 16:36:14 GMT -5
Back on topic: I tend to go along with those here (and elsewhere in comics fandom) who feel the Bronze Age started circa 1970.
When I got back into comics in the early 2000s I picked up Craig Shutt's book Baby Boomer Comics, which is a compilation of his Comics Buyer's Guide articles that deal with the Silver Age. In this book he asserts that, for him, the Silver Age ended in (mid-)1970 primarily because of these two events: Kirby's last FF comic and Mort Weisinger's departure from comics (i.e., the Superman-related books). This makes sense to me, so I use 1970 as general guideline for the end of the Silver Age and for the shift to the Bronze Age.
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Post by zaku on May 7, 2022 16:50:34 GMT -5
For me it's the start of Sand Superman saga. Just the issue before was quintessential Silver Age
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Post by Ozymandias on May 8, 2022 1:19:25 GMT -5
Re: Warrior. I think it was more that Swamp Thing got the Warrior stuff noticed, than vice versa. In the UK, I would tend to think Moore's 2000 AD material was probably bigger profile than Warrior; at least, at the start of it. Over here, I don't think many were as aware, until Eclipse started publishing material from the magazine, in 1985, after making a deal with Dez Skinn. It's not so much influence as evolution of the superhero genre itself, for me. The main influence Moore and Miller's work had was the grim and gritty of the 90s, which didn't have that much to do with it after all. That's why I don't care much about what came after the Bronze Age, because it was chaotic, not many writers understood what the novelty was about and only a few were able to build upon it (Ellis come to mind).
Moore's ABC line was an attempt to repair the "damage" he had done. But the industry was already headed that way, or at least Marvel was with Heroes Return.
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Post by Ozymandias on Aug 22, 2022 9:12:27 GMT -5
There's a lot of discussion going on, about where different eras start or end, but at least the delimitation between "Silver" and "Bronze" seems clear. Still going 24-0 for 1970.
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Aug 22, 2022 9:29:43 GMT -5
For long running titles that began years earlier, The Bronze Age began at different times according to the different series. Batman could have began with Robin leaving for college and/or Neal Adams doing the artwork. Superman when "Kryptonite was no more" and he became a TV reporter. FF and Thor with Kirby's departure, Spidey with Gwen Stacy's death and etc etc The publishers didn't plan for a new Bronze Age beginning. The evolution was just a natural roll-out Same applies to the Silver Age beginnings
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Post by Ozymandias on Aug 22, 2022 9:48:18 GMT -5
Guess I should've added a "whenever" option.
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Post by zaku on Aug 22, 2022 10:56:55 GMT -5
The best answer probably is:
"It depends on the individual comic book".
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Post by mistermets on Aug 22, 2022 13:45:02 GMT -5
Interesting that this is a question a lot of people seem to disagree about, but there's an overwhelming consensus choice with 1970, and Kirby coming to DC.
Spider-Man also had a major death with the death of Captain Stacy in Amazing Spider-Man #90 (cover date of November 1970) while Iron Man's girlfriend Janice Kord was killed in Iron Man #22 (cover date of February 1970.)
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Post by Ozymandias on Aug 22, 2022 14:01:42 GMT -5
It was a thing of the times. I seem to remember the first one was CM's Una, then Janice, then Lady Dorma. Gwen was just the continuation of a trend.
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Post by dbutler69 on Aug 23, 2022 8:44:14 GMT -5
The best answer probably is: "It depends on the individual comic book". Yes, thi has always been my answer. I think Marvel entered the Bronze Age before DC, a lot of it having to do with Roy Thomas and some of the newer artists cominc in, but even withon companies it varies from book to book. I think the Batman titles entetered the Brone Age probably a couple of years before the Superman titles.
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