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Post by Ozymandias on May 6, 2022 10:54:40 GMT -5
V for Vendetta and MiracleMan started that month in that mag.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on May 6, 2022 11:12:29 GMT -5
With Warrior #1 (March 1982), there's no Bronze Age anymore. That's as clear in my mind as Action Comics #1 starting it all. Why? What about a British anthology mag, that had little presence in the US ended the Bronze Age? What comics changed because this was published? Seems like a strange and arbitrary point. I can tell you as an avid buyer of British comics at the time, Warrior had relatively little presence over here either (though admittedly, I was younger than the mag's intended audience). But still, the U.S. adult Epic or Heavy Metal mags were well known to me and my pre-teen pals over here in England (though we were seldom able to buy them), but I don't remember anyone in my age group being aware of Warrior at the time. I bet it sold a lot less than, say, 2000 AD, Star Wars Monthly or Commando did. That said, Warrior did win a number of awards from the comic community and was critically well received -- and obviously the inclusion of Alan Moore's Miracleman and V for Vendetta is regarded as fairly important in hindsight. But at the time I don't think those strips reached all that many folks in Britain really -- and certainly not many outside of Britain! DC's later re-publishing of V for Vendetta was a much, much higher profile introduction to V for Vendetta, for example -- even in the UK! Also, the Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age terminology only applies to mainstream American comics and doesn't make sense at all when it's applied to British comics. You might as well try and shoehorn it on to the Franco-Belgian "Bandes dessinées" or Japanese manga.
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Post by EdoBosnar on May 6, 2022 11:17:14 GMT -5
About 3300 BC.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on May 6, 2022 11:19:07 GMT -5
Lol...you know, I sooooo nearly posted this yesterday. But I though better of it.
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Post by kirby101 on May 6, 2022 11:43:14 GMT -5
V for Vendetta and MiracleMan started that month in that mag. Both important books for Alan Moore aficionados, but neither had a big impact on mainstream comics. His Watchman and Swampthing were much more important.
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Post by kirby101 on May 6, 2022 13:01:39 GMT -5
I am wondering if the rise of the Independents in the 80s can be seen as a demarcation. Publishers like First and Eclipse certainly made way for new and different titles.
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Post by MDG on May 6, 2022 13:30:50 GMT -5
1970 for me as well, but I do feel like it's a bit squishier than the start of other eras so I appreciate the question. Golden Age for me (with focus on the superhero boom of that time) dries up towards the end of the 40's / start of the 50's. The aforementioned transition period to the Silver Age is about '51 to '56 for me (I personally like the label "Atomic Age", I use that in my collection software). The start of the Silver Age in 1956 is not just because of Barry Allen though that is an important milestone, but also the censorship events leading to the CCA and demise of most of EC, or changes to the Bat titles like with the addition of Batwoman (also in '56). End of the Bronze Age is pretty clear as well with Crisis, Dark Knight, etc. But 1970 as a start was not quite as bright a line as some of these other ones in my mind, you sort of need a couple of years prior and and after and I view 1970 more as a reasonable midpoint and a clean divide of the decades. '56 was also when Quality folded, which certainly puts a final nail in the coffin of the GA (though I like the Atomic Age designation, though starting earlier in the post-war period, like '47 or '48.)
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Post by berkley on May 6, 2022 15:17:36 GMT -5
Lol...you know, I sooooo nearly posted this yesterday. But I though better of it. I wanted to make a joke yesterday along the lines of, "According to Confessor, 40 minutes ago" - because on my screen at the time that's what it said on the right hand side, one of your posts being the most recent right then. But then I realised it wouldn't make sense to anyone who didn't happen to be looking at their screen right at that moment.
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Post by kirby101 on May 6, 2022 15:30:38 GMT -5
Why didn't we call the next age the Iron Age?
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Post by commond on May 6, 2022 16:08:17 GMT -5
Who coined these names in the first place?
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Post by EdoBosnar on May 6, 2022 16:08:25 GMT -5
Why didn't we call the next age the Iron Age? Because then we'd have to rename the Golden and Silver Age into the Stone and Copper Age.
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Post by codystarbuck on May 6, 2022 21:40:58 GMT -5
Who coined these names in the first place? Boomer fans in the fanzine world. No idea who, specifically; but, it would have likely been in the whole Roy Thomas/Jerry Bails crowd. Lest we forget, there was some reference to the early 30s stuff as the Platinum Age. I think we are down to zinc or aluminum, for the current period. Maybe molybdenum.
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Post by codystarbuck on May 6, 2022 22:50:45 GMT -5
Re: Warrior. I think it was more that Swamp Thing got the Warrior stuff noticed, than vice versa. In the UK, I would tend to think Moore's 2000 AD material was probably bigger profile than Warrior; at least, at the start of it. Over here, I don't think many were as aware, until Eclipse started publishing material from the magazine, in 1985, after making a deal with Dez Skinn.
Back to the 80s question, there is a definite movement at DC, starting around 1978, to overhaul their line. Some parts were more entrenched than others. In 1980, you get New Teen Titans, which is a hit and starts getting more complex, in its second year (and it wasn't exactly lightweight, in the first). DC Comics Presents was being treated differently than Superman or Action and there was some more mature stuff going there. Legion of Super Heroes starts producing some stories that kind of present some mature material, in 1981, especially once Paul Levitz comes on board. Conway had been writing, then Roy Thomas joins him, then Ropy is writing alone, then passing it on to Levitz. By 1982, they are starting the Great Darkness Saga. Around that time, Firestorm is revived and proves surprisingly popular, based on its previous run. Pat broderick's art helped, a lot. Swamp Thing was dabbling in that area (with Marty Pasko), before Moore came on board, though Moore pushed it to a new plane, in late 1983.
In regards the rise of the independents, that starts in the very late 70s, but starts ramping up in 1981 and is picking up more steam in 1983. AC Comics had been around, in one form or another, since the late 60s, doing fanzine material and such and then started calling themselves Americomics, in 1982, and AC Comics, in 1984. Eclipse starts up in 1977, then Pacific Comics in 1981, though they were selling and distributing comics, starting in 1971. Kitchen Sink had been around since 1970 and Rip-Off Press, since 1969. You also had guys like Bud Plant involved, selling, distributing and publishing. Mike Friedrich starts up Star*Reach in 1974. You also get the earliest self-publishers, with Dave Sim and the Pinis, in 1977 and 78, respectively. You also have publishers, like Sal Quartuccio and his Hot Stuff anthology, books like Phase One and the Undergrounds. The Direct Market is built around that and more shops are opened between the late 70s and 1983. Star*Reach made some noises with Howard Chaykin and Jim Starlin, then P Craig Russell and some others and also publishes some of Dave Sim's pre-Cerebus work (and rejects Cerebus, leading Sim to try publishing it himself). Eclipse had Don McGregor and Paul Gulacy, with Sabre. Pacific starts up with both Mike Grell and Jack Kirby, making big noises. 1983 sees First Comics start up, with the Warp play adaptation and Joe Staton's E-Man (but, no Nic Cuti). They are soon joined by Grell and Chaykin. Capital tries publishing, starting in 1981, with the magazine format Nexus, which is joined by Badger, in 1983. AC starts putting out actual series, rather than one shots, fanzines or portfolios, in 1982, with Americomics. Comico starts up, in 1982. David Anthony Kraft starts Comics Interview, in 1983. 1984 sees Eastman & Laird publish the Turtles and then the floodgates start to open. Kraft is publishing comics, starting in 1985. 1986 is kind of the watershed year, as the Black & White Boom, following the success of the Turtles, is in full gear. Malibu starts in 1986, originally as Scot Rosenberg funds several different partnerships, such as Eternity, Wonder Color, and Amazing; soon joined by Aircel and the newest, Malibu Comics. Fantagraphics started doing the Comics Journal, in the late 70s and publishes Love & rockets, starting in 1982. They expand greatly in 1987. Dark Horse launches in 1986. There is a massive expansion in the number of publishers in 1986 and early 1987, before the bubble burst on the black & whites, with everything from Silver Wolf/Greater Mercury to Heroic, Renegade Press, Dynamic/Lodestone, Solson, Blackthorne (the Schanes Bros raising their head after the Pacific bankruptcy) and so on.
So, between about 1975 and 1983, you have some outlets for alternative material, aided by the emerging direct distribution market. From 1976to 1985, Jenette Kahn is overhauling DC. Marvel gets a big influx of Star Wars cash in 1977, which helps them weather the decade better than DC. Claremont and Byrne turn X-Men into a big hit. Frank Miller and Roger McKenzie start working magic on Daredevil, starting in 1979. David Michelinie and John Romita Jr start kicking Iron man into higher gear, in 1978. Micronauts comes along in 1979, soon followed by Rom (79), then GI Joe and Transformers, in 1982 and 84. DC's transformation really starts taking hold around 1982 and they continue to make new launches and changes, heading for their 50th Anniversary, in 1985, with the launch of Crisis on Infinite Earths. So, I would say things start getting into a flux stage by 1977 and by at least 1983, if not 1985, we are out of what could truly be called the Bronze Age, based on what had been published in the 70s.
I do think a Decade-based demarcation works better than a generational, particularly since comics tended to evolve with the pop culture of the period. There is a definite shift in the post-War era, into the 50s, and then the turmoil of the 50s. It starts out well, until forces of censorship attack in force and we get a contraction of the market, in the mid-50s, leading to the Code. Out of that fire and restrictions, superheroes look like a safer bet than horror or more mature sci-fi, though humor material remains strong. By the 1960s, superheroes are back in quantity. The the 1970s, massive upheaval in the world and a new generation of creative talent start pushing the boundaries and the Code is revamped, allowing a return of Horror, in the 70s and looser restrictions on the superheroes and adventure. The Recession hurts mainstream publishing; but, a rise in an alternative distribution system, in part inspired by the Undergrounds, leads to new outlets for comics, which Marvel is quick to exploit, while DC deals with internal problems, but uses to its advantage, once things shake out at the editorial level. That transforms things for the 80s and leads to more publishers entering the field, while some old ones depart (Western and Charlton, as well as Warren). It also marks the transition from a mass medium to a fan-driven specialty market. Really, the Bronze Age could be categorized as the transition from a mass medium, with broad appeal, to a niche market, driven by hardcore fandom and a new distribution system to support it.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on May 7, 2022 4:00:21 GMT -5
Who coined these names in the first place? Boomer fans in the fanzine world. No idea who, specifically; but, it would have likely been in the whole Roy Thomas/Jerry Bails crowd. Lest we forget, there was some reference to the early 30s stuff as the Platinum Age. I think we are down to zinc or aluminum, for the current period. Maybe molybdenum. Didn't Stan Lee use the term "Golden Age of Comics" a lot in the cover blurb of Marvel's 40s and 50s reprints in the early 60s? I kinda assumed it all stemmed from that, with 70s and 80s fandom expanding it to Silver Age etc as you suggest.
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Post by chaykinstevens on May 7, 2022 6:31:33 GMT -5
Wikipedia says the first recorded use of the term "Golden Age" was by Richard A. Lupoff in an article, "Re-Birth", published in issue one of the fanzine Comic Art in April 1960.
It also says Michael Uslan traced the origin of the "Silver Age" term to the letters column of Justice League of America #42 (February 1966), which went on sale December 9, 1965. Letter-writer Scott Taylor of Westport, Connecticut, wrote: "If you guys keep bringing back the heroes from the [1930s–1940s] Golden Age, people 20 years from now will be calling this decade the Silver Sixties!"
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