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Post by Hoosier X on Feb 26, 2022 10:44:17 GMT -5
I gotta ask:
Why would any truck be driving around in New York with Asian symbols on the license plate? Even if it was a Chinese laundry truck? And then if they redrew everything else about the truck, why would they leave the Asian symbols on the laundry truck anyway?
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,709
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Post by shaxper on Feb 26, 2022 10:53:32 GMT -5
I gotta ask: Why would any truck be driving around in New York with Asian symbols on the license plate? Even if it was a Chinese laundry truck? And then if they redrew everything else about the truck, why would they leave the Asian symbols on the laundry truck anyway? Yeah, that's a valid point, though I have a very hard time seeing that plate as being anything else. Some possible answers: 1. Maybe they used Chinese plates in Chinatown in some cities? 2. Maybe Everett at least thought that they did? 3. Maybe Everett wasn't thinking that hard? 4. Maybe they actually shipped the truck over from China? If Everett was going for racism, racism is rarely concerned with facts and logic, of course. If you can draw Asians yellow, you can give them an impossible license plate.
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Post by Cei-U! on Feb 26, 2022 11:03:48 GMT -5
A moment's Googling reveals that Chinese license plates use western letters and numerals, not Chinese characters.
Cei-U! I summon the FYI!
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Post by MWGallaher on Feb 26, 2022 11:06:17 GMT -5
I'm with you on the whole radioactivity angle being absent from the original effort that Bill Everett delivered. It's another example to support the hypothesis that Stan, even at this early point in the Marvel Age, didn't give his artists the detailed plots that he usually implied or outright stated that he did. Whenever a text panel says something essential that's not conveyed in the art, I take it as a sign that this wasn't something the credited artist was ever told to include (for example, Dr. Doom's witch mother from his origin story). I think Everett created a Daredevil #1 with only the loosest of directions, one in which the character simply trained his senses to compensate. Oh, and he also created a high-tech cane that sent out something like sonar signals, which is what Everett intended to illustrate here: Those "pings" look to me like technology in action, not "radar senses", and this explains why Matt also incorporated the cane into his Daredevil costume. (Lee sticks in an awkward "Even though I don't need it, I'll continue to carry a cane as Matt Murdock", when this was an essential component from Bill Everett's story.)
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Post by Randle-El on Feb 26, 2022 11:15:21 GMT -5
I can see how the panel might look like it's trying to depict a person of Chinese origin, but I'm inclined to give this one a pass. I feel like back then, if you were an artist going for the Chinese laundry stereotype, you wouldn't have been subtle about it. It would have been in your face. The characters would have been dressed in "ethnic" garb, they would have used that Chinese take-out font, etc. This was the U.S. in the 1960s, when Hollywood had no problems using a blatantly racist character like Mr. Yunioshi from Breakfast at Tiffany's.
But now that we're on the topic -- I always thought that DD's origins and abilities could have made sense without the toxic waste accident if Frank Miller's "urban ninja" take had been incorporated from the beginning. During the 80s we were swimming in ninja movies that showed ostensibly normal people who were able to do borderline-supernatural things because they used arcane ninja techniques. There's also the trope of the blind martial artist who is so in tune with their chi and environment that they are able to fight as if they could see. In this version, it would be less plausible for DD to have the same level of superhuman senses that he possesses according to canon, but it would still provide an explanation for why a blind person would be able to fight crime as well as a seeing person. And in some ways, better -- I always loved the idea that DD had the advantage in the dark. I know it's cliched now, but I always loved it when DD (or some other similar superhero) shows up, the lights go out, and all the bad guys start peeing their pants because they can't see and they know a beat down is coming.
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Post by Hoosier X on Feb 26, 2022 11:34:46 GMT -5
A moment's Googling reveals that Chinese license plates use western letters and numerals, not Chinese characters. Cei-U! I summon the FYI! Well ... Bill Everett didn’t have Google!
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Post by profh0011 on Feb 26, 2022 11:58:31 GMT -5
Not buying the Asian theory, at all. First, the driver has typical caucasian features. Are you sure? Exaggerated ears and jaw is what I'm seeing, giving him an almost monkey-like look. Of course, to your later point that this image is blown up, I doubt much thought/energy was given to facial features. Not sure whether or not you intended this, but putting the word evidence in quotation marks implies a snarky dismissal of the work I put into my OP. Vibrant debate is always welcome, but please try not to belittle someone for taking a leap and attempting to further the community's discussion and enjoyment. I'm glad somebody else gets called out for "snarky" once in awhile.
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Post by profh0011 on Feb 26, 2022 12:01:06 GMT -5
A moment's Googling reveals that Chinese license plates use western letters and numerals, not Chinese characters. Cei-U! I summon the FYI! UH HUH.
Seems pretty clear to to me it was simply an "illegible" plate, like how I've seen a TV show post a fake telephone number with the wrong number of digits.
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Post by profh0011 on Feb 26, 2022 12:15:33 GMT -5
I'm with you on the whole radioactivity angle being absent from the original effort that Bill Everett delivered. It's another example to support the hypothesis that Stan, even at this early point in the Marvel Age, didn't give his artists the detailed plots that he usually implied or outright stated that he did. Whenever a text panel says something essential that's not conveyed in the art, I take it as a sign that this wasn't something the credited artist was ever told to include (for example, Dr. Doom's witch mother from his origin story). I think Everett created a Daredevil #1 with only the loosest of directions, one in which the character simply trained his senses to compensate. Oh, and he also created a high-tech cane that sent out something like sonar signals, which is what Everett intended to illustrate here: It's not a hypothesis when every "artist" in that situation tells the EXACT same story of them having to come up with the stories all by themselves. This includes Kirby, Orlando, Wood, Romita, Colan, Hartley, Marie Severin, Herb Trimpe... it goes on. This only began to change when Roy Thomas came aboard, because Thomas actually wanted to write.
The interview I read with Bill Everett indicated that his editor gave him an idea for the series, and Everett said something to the effect of "He THOUGHT he had an idea, but it didn't work". So Everett came up with the ENTIRE THING entirely on his own, which is how pretty much EVERY Marvel "artist" worked in the 60s-- being expected to write their own material UNPAID and UNCREDITED, so the editor could fill in the word balloons and get paid for the full writing job.
Editorial edict is bad enough, but publisher edict is worse. It was famously Martin Goodman who, on realizing that Lev Gleason's DAREDEVIL was no longer being published, told his editor to "do a book named DAREDEVIL". Jack Kirby was ALWAYS the go-to guy at the time, and he had already done a series called STUNTMAN, which had a circus setting. When I realized this, it became obvious to me that Kirby not only designed the costume, and came up with the alliterative name "Matt Murdock", but also probably suggested a circus setting. (Remember, before Steve Ditko got involved, SPIDER-MAN was way too close to Archie's THE FLY for comfort-- because Kirby was reusing his own ideas.)
The editor passed Kirby's concept on to Everett, and Everett rejected the circus format. Instead, being inspired by the fact that his daughter was "legally blind", and, quite possibly, the 1940s character THE BLACK BAT-- a lawyer who'd been blinded by a gangster (this was before "Two-Face" in BATMAN!), Murdock became a blind lawyer and superhero.
The circus format, oddly enough, turned up in DD's first-ever guest-appearance, in ASM #16-- "Duel With Daredevil", which featured The Ringmaster and his Circus of Crime. This came out only a few months after DD #1. It's amazing how much things make sense if you find out what was really going on behind-the-scenes.
I've long felt DAREDEVIL #1 aged very well, and is still a fun read even today. Had Everett stuck around, it might have been successful. But Everett did the entire book in his spare time while working a more-than-full time job at an ad agency, so it became impossible for him to continue past that first story. Joe Orlando didn't work out, he objected to having to redraw page after page as his editor kept re-writing Orlando's stories after-the-fact (evidence that it wasn't a real "collaboration", nor a good way to create comics). Wally Wood coming onboard really saved the series from an early death. And he might have stayed longer, except HE objected to not being paid for his writing.
There's a quote from Wood online somewhere, where he said, "The page rates at Tower were just as bad as Marvel's, but at least I GOT PAID for the writing I was doing."
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Post by Cei-U! on Feb 26, 2022 12:27:02 GMT -5
Ah, but Everett didn't do the entirety of DD #1 "on his own." He didn't do the entirety of DD #1, period. Steve Ditko had to step in and pencil a big chunk of the book when Everett's drinking screwed up the deadline, so he actually got credit for work he didn't do. (Not sure if Everett finished/inked Ditko's layouts or if some other Bullpener imitated his inking style.) It wasn't until Everett had his alcholism under control that he got more work from Marvel.
Cei-U! I summon the talented tippler!
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Post by Hoosier X on Feb 26, 2022 12:36:45 GMT -5
Ah, but Everett didn't do the entirety of DD #1 "on his own." He didn't do the entirety of DD #1, period. Steve Ditko had to step in and pencil a big chunk of the book when Everett's drinking screwed up the deadline, so he actually got credit for work he didn't do. (Not sure if Everett finished/inked Ditko's layouts or if some other Bullpener imitated his inking style.) It wasn't until Everett had his alcholism under control that he got more work from Marvel. Cei-U! I summon the talented tippler! I’ve been hearing something like that for decades. I wonder how much of it’s true.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 26, 2022 15:46:25 GMT -5
Given it was written by Stan Lee, it was probably originally intended to be a truck from an electronics plant, and Matt was supposed to be hit in the eyes by a canister of transistors. Bill Everett wrote it...
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Post by foxley on Feb 26, 2022 18:00:35 GMT -5
Given it was written by Stan Lee, it was probably originally intended to be a truck from an electronics plant, and Matt was supposed to be hit in the eyes by a canister of transistors. Bill Everett wrote it... But according to Lee, he created everything produced by Marvel (and every other comic company ever) and merely farmed his brilliance out to the hacks hanging the bullpen to translate his incomparable vision to the page.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 26, 2022 18:10:15 GMT -5
The simple answer to this mystery is that the artist didn’t include the proper info and the writer filled in the blanks.
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Post by commond on Feb 26, 2022 18:12:39 GMT -5
If the radioactive waste wasn't a part of Everett's original pencils, then what caused Matt to lose his sight? Is it possible to lose your sight from a hit to the head? Personally, I think it was intended to be a part of Matt's origin, the same way that Peter Parker was bite by a radioactive spider. My theory is that the artists simply had no idea what a truck carrying radioactive waste would look like, how the waste would be stored, and what the waste itself would look like (so you get the shot of the bystanders commenting on his face instead of a close-up of some kind of sludge over Matt's face.) It comes across as a few quick panels with some comic book shorthand so that they can continue with the rest of the story. There's more time spent on his relationship with his father than the actual accident. It's one of those hockey Silver Age science things that you have to accept at face value. Even the Colan drawn cannister makes look little sense. It might have knocked Matt out, but how did the waste get out of the cannister and onto Matt's face? It's best not to overthink it, otherwise you start wondering about those bystanders being exposed to the radiation, or wondering what happened to the blind man that Matt saved, which I think was a story later on.
I like JRJR's rendering because it looks like some seriously dodgy health and safety practices, and that's the most logical explanation for how radioactive waste ended up on the back of a truck driving through the city.
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