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Post by dbutler69 on Dec 21, 2021 11:43:50 GMT -5
As I'm sure most of you know, "jumping the shark" is when a series (whether it be TV or comic) suffers a precipitous decline in quality, named after Fonzie jumping the shark in Happy Days.
So when do you think some of your beloved series jumped the shark?a
Here are some of mine:
X-Men: When John Romite jr takes over as penciller with #176. I could be generous and say it's when Rachel Summers is introduced in #184, as Claremont starts recycling old ideas and also making the X-Men very convoluted.
Avengers: #300, or perhaps #298. Both are part of the Inferno crossover, and #300 is also where the lineup changes, with Mr Fantastic, Invisible Woman, and Gilgamesh becoming members.
Alpha Flight: This series absolutely fell off a cliff after John Byrne left after #28. Most precipitous decline ever.
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Post by profh0011 on Dec 21, 2021 11:48:00 GMT -5
Spider-Man: when Gil Kane got on the book the first time, and murdered George Stacy, who'd been built up for several years by then to become Peter's surrogate father & mentor. Just sheer pointless maliciousness. (It's amazing how this absolutely coincides with Jack Kirby leaving the company following the new owners spending 3 years trying to "run him off".)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2021 11:50:42 GMT -5
Every DC title after Crisis.
OK, I'm joking (but kind of not).
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Post by badwolf on Dec 21, 2021 12:05:17 GMT -5
As I'm sure most of you know, "jumping the shark" is when a series (whether it be TV or comic) suffers a precipitous decline in quality, named after Fonzie jumping the shark in Happy Days. So when do you think some of your beloved series jumped the shark?a Here are some of mine: X-Men: When John Romite jr takes over as penciller with #176. I could be generous and say it's when Rachel Summers is introduced in #184, as Claremont starts recycling old ideas and also making the X-Men very convoluted. Avengers: #300, or perhaps #298. Both are part of the Inferno crossover, and #300 is also where the lineup changes, with Mr Fantastic, Invisible Woman, and Gilgamesh becoming members. Alpha Flight: This series absolutely fell off a cliff after John Byrne left after #28. Most precipitous decline ever. Agreed on X-Men and AF. For Avengers, I'd put it a bit earlier, when Roger Stern left the book. The last storyline I liked was "Heavy Metal," which he had a hand in but was scripted by Ralph Macchio. Dropped it when the team was winnowed away to Dr. Druid and some other 2nd stringers.
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Post by mikelmidnight on Dec 21, 2021 12:10:10 GMT -5
X-Men: When John Romite jr takes over as penciller with #176. I could be generous and say it's when Rachel Summers is introduced in #184, as Claremont starts recycling old ideas and also making the X-Men very convoluted.
I stopped reading the title when Paul Smith left (although I dipped in for the Morrison issues). A couple of years later I was staying with a friend who collected the series and I caught up, and was convinced I absolutely made the right decision.
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Post by Icctrombone on Dec 21, 2021 12:17:17 GMT -5
I stayed in collecting X-men until issue 200. It was bad but I made some money selling them later on.
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Post by kirby101 on Dec 21, 2021 12:59:21 GMT -5
Daredevil suffered when Gene Colan left, but then soared to new heights with Frank Miller, the Nocenti/Romita run was great. But this was as shark jumpy as you can get.
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Post by tarkintino on Dec 21, 2021 13:05:30 GMT -5
The Amazing Spider-Man - Although the title had some ho-hum issues in the late 70s, even the Rocket Racer's introduction did not take the title speeding toward that water-based ramp to Fonzie-dom. Instead, I found the entire symbiote costume / eventual run-up to Venom being hard evidence of the title jumping the shark, with a plot so nonsensical and far removed from the title's gritty, dramatic, growth-oriented stories of the 60s and 70s. The shift to Venom just seemed like a cash-in on all things sci-fi that had been in vogue during that decade, and it had no place in a Spider-Man comic.
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Post by codystarbuck on Dec 21, 2021 13:27:20 GMT -5
I agree on X-Men, as I bailed with Paul Smith. I loved JRJR on Iron Man but hated this look and Claremont was out of ideas, and he had already been recycling things.
I'm not a Spidey fan; but, the Ditko era stuff was the material that I did enjoy; so, you could say when he left.
Invaders when they finished the storyline where they were captured and paraded in Berlin, then rescued by Brian Falsworth, as the new Union Jack. It pretty much loses all steam at that point and never really recovers.
Funny enough, that metaphor ignores real history. Those episodes did huge ratings and Happy Days finished at the top (Number 2, for the year) that season. Their ratings didn't drop, significantly, until 2 seasons late. Really, it went downhill when Ron Howard decided to bow out and they were at a loss for how to do Fonzie stories, without Richie. They really were a team, no matter what ABC executives tried to do. I've been reading Ron & Clint Howard's new book and Ron talks about nearly leaving the series with the third season, when they wanted to retitle it Fonzie's Happy Days and make him the star. He didn't have a problem with Henry Winkler or the reaction to Fonzie; but, he had given up USC Film School because of his workload on the series and felt like the ABC executives were ignoring everyone else's contribution to the success of the show. He told them that if they did that, then he wanted to bow out and go back to school. Henry Winkler didn't want it either and Gary Marshall finally put a stop to it by threatening to pull the plug. Later, the cast were given Christmas gifts, by ABC. They all got wallets (nice ones); but, Henry was given a VCR, which was an extremely expensive toy, at the time. the cast was livid and Winkler was embarrassed by the favoritism. Ron called up ABC Talent Relations and read them the riot act for so obviously showing a lack of respect to the cast. No one had a problem with Henry and he and Ron remained close friends and Winkler is the godfather of all 4 of Ron's kids, including Bryce. Ron wanted to direct before he took the series and turned down the offer of a guaranteed seasonal episode for him to direct, when they tried to impose the Fonzie's Happy Days change. He knew that it was not a token of respect and didn't want to deal with network interference in the director's chair; plus, he felt Jerry Paris was their best director and didn't want to get in his way. ABC's poor handling of the Fonzie phenomena pushed Ron to seriously pursue directing, leading him to take the role in Eat My Dust, for Roger Corman, in exchange for the chance to direct a film (which led to Grand Theft Auto); and, ultimately, to winning the Oscar for Best Director, for A Beautiful Mind.
Fonzie needed Richie to balance him out.
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Post by badwolf on Dec 21, 2021 14:56:26 GMT -5
And Ron, Henry and Scott Baio all "reunited" in Arrested Development.
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Post by badwolf on Dec 21, 2021 15:03:02 GMT -5
X-Men: When John Romite jr takes over as penciller with #176. I could be generous and say it's when Rachel Summers is introduced in #184, as Claremont starts recycling old ideas and also making the X-Men very convoluted.
I stopped reading the title when Paul Smith left (although I dipped in for the Morrison issues). A couple of years later I was staying with a friend who collected the series and I caught up, and was convinced I absolutely made the right decision.
I stuck around for a while longer, into the 220s I think. Despite JRJR's terrible art (and costume design) there were still some good stories, as well as "fill-in" art by Alan Davis, Barry Windsor Smith, Rick Leonardi and June Brigman. I was still really attached to the characters..
For some reason I passed on Grant's run when it came out but I caught it later in the collections and was glad I did.
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Post by dbutler69 on Dec 21, 2021 16:20:41 GMT -5
X-Men: When John Romite jr takes over as penciller with #176. I could be generous and say it's when Rachel Summers is introduced in #184, as Claremont starts recycling old ideas and also making the X-Men very convoluted.
I stopped reading the title when Paul Smith left (although I dipped in for the Morrison issues). A couple of years later I was staying with a friend who collected the series and I caught up, and was convinced I absolutely made the right decision.
You did! I stuck it out much longer and when I was re-reading my X-Men a few years ago, I stopped shortly after #200, even though I collected up until 300, because it was no longer enjoyable reading them.
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Post by commond on Dec 21, 2021 16:51:28 GMT -5
To me, jumping the shark involves a more radical change -- like the jump from Jonah Hex to Hex.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2021 16:51:30 GMT -5
One person's 'jumping the shark' might be another person's 'jumping on' point...
For me it would be the early 90s...I could not stand anything with Rob Liefeld artwork in it. I hated it then and despise it even more now.
I'm also not a fan of McFarlane's Spidey...so there's a large gap in my Spidey run....I just don't like it.
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Post by commond on Dec 21, 2021 16:52:14 GMT -5
Every DC title after Crisis. OK, I'm joking (but kind of not). I've been considering making a thread about the best and worst post-Crisis titles.
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