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Post by badwolf on Sept 10, 2021 18:46:21 GMT -5
Am I required to cite every example? I was pretty sure everyone would get what I mean...some element of the character is off...whether it be origin, look or how a character's power works. I basically can't watch Raimi's Spider-Man movies. Peter having organic webs just ruins it for me. "It" meaning Raimi's Spider-Man. Organic webs never bothered me; the important part of the Raimi films was capturing the heart of the lead character, and the films--1 & 2 in particular--soared with kind of angst and superheroic drama of the early Stan Lee / John Romita era, and for that, Raimi's films are the far-and-away best Spider-Man adaptations to date. Agreed. I even like the third film now.
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Post by chadwilliam on Sept 10, 2021 19:09:50 GMT -5
The movies never get it right. Even the good ones. I mentioned in another thread that one of the strong points of the 1943 Batman serial was William Austin's portrayal of Alfred. As an example of the films "getting it right" there are few better. He looks and acts exactly like the character. Except... That's only because the comics decided to use Austin as their model after introducing a portly clean shaven take on the character. As Cei-U! once explained (apologies to him if I'm getting this wrong) the character was created for the serial and for whatever reason, the comics went with a different look when they incorporated him into the series (about a year later they explained the weight loss and moustache gain as a result of how he spent his vacation). Though I can't make a solid argument as to why a moustachioed thin Alfred is better than a clean shaven girthy one, I won't hesitate to state that it's a cold hard fact that it was the comics which got him wrong and the serial which got it right (and hey, feel free to ask how I can declare this to be a "cold hard fact" - just be prepared for the likes of strawmen arguments, Godwin's law, and interchangeable usages of the words "fact" and "opinion" like you've never seen them before). Sometimes, getting it wrong means getting it right. Superman being able to fly, kryptonite, and Jimmy Olsen all debuted on the radio (although admittedly only the first one is an example of one medium getting it "right" and another "wrong"); Alfred being The Wayne's family butler came from the Super Powers cartoon show (though I personally prefer him not having raised Bruce Wayne, I think as Shaxper suggested, this is one of those things I just have to accept as being part of the past now) and don't get me started on all the things the first Christopher Reeve Superman film got wrong in 1978 which comes across as prescient today.
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Post by beyonder1984 on Oct 11, 2021 8:07:47 GMT -5
I usually have people who don't read comics ask me to explain. I try to explain to my sister and my fiancée and they just have no interest. I always say I was a nerd before it was cool. Me too. I stopped responding because I realized the movies are based on name only with the subject matter.
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Post by MWGallaher on Oct 12, 2021 5:51:44 GMT -5
I hate how they always want to jump to the latest (or recent) "hot" story so quickly after the initial film. Infinity Gauntlet, Extremis, Winter Soldier... There are hundreds of great stories they could have drawn from in between... It was especially dumb for The Winter Soldier since only a few years had passed for us... it had no impact.
I agree. I get that they didn't have 20 years to get to Demon in a Bottle with Iron Man, but that's movies for you. I really hope they set the FF in the past and bring them into the modern MCU. So many ways to do this. The FF don't work as well being second fiddle in influence and importance to the Avengers. All I want is to see a proper Doctor Doom and Galactus before I'm too old (in a bout 40 years) to remember who those characters are... I think the best way to do that would be to do both a Silver Surfer film and a Doctor Doom film BEFORE a Fantastic Four film to get those characters established properly without trying to cram them into an FF story, or worse (as evidenced by the FF films we've already had) combining the Doom and FF origins.A Surfer film could end with him approaching Earth with Galactus on his tail, setting up a future threat to be addressed in an FF film. A Doom solo film could use another good villain like Mole Man as Doom's opponent, or introduce an unused hero less critical than the FF, like the Shroud or Black Knight or Captain Britain. Anyway, that's how I'd do it.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Oct 12, 2021 6:17:33 GMT -5
I agree. I get that they didn't have 20 years to get to Demon in a Bottle with Iron Man, but that's movies for you. I really hope they set the FF in the past and bring them into the modern MCU. So many ways to do this. The FF don't work as well being second fiddle in influence and importance to the Avengers. All I want is to see a proper Doctor Doom and Galactus before I'm too old (in a bout 40 years) to remember who those characters are... I think the best way to do that would be to do both a Silver Surfer film and a Doctor Doom film BEFORE a Fantastic Four film to get those characters established properly without trying to cram them into an FF story, or worse (as evidenced by the FF films we've already had) combining the Doom and FF origins.A Surfer film could end with him approaching Earth with Galactus on his tail, setting up a future threat to be addressed in an FF film. A Doom solo film could use another good villain like Mole Man as Doom's opponent, or introduce an unused hero less critical than the FF, like the Shroud or Black Knight or Captain Britain. Anyway, that's how I'd do it. I could easily see Doom being its own runaway film franchise, potentially far bigger than the Fantastic Four in appeal. The tragic villain who sees himself as the hero has such resonance in today's world. Some will envy his simplistic might-makes-right approach while others will pity him.
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Post by tonebone on Oct 12, 2021 8:47:26 GMT -5
I was genuinely surprised recently when, after 45 years, I re-read the 9 years' worth of Alex Raymond's FLASH GORDON Sunday strips... and realized... DAMN!!! --the 1936 Universal movie serial was FAR-BETTER WRITTEN. I once read-- many years ago-- the opinions that while FLASH GORDON had the very BEST art of any adventure strip in the papers back then, it also had the "worst" writing. I now fully agree with that estimation. And I feel a bit sorry for people who base all their views of FG on the 1980 movie... (heeheehee) ALTHOUGH.... If you look at comics based movies as a whole, Flash Gordon was literally more accurate than most others, including the modern MCU movies, if you just boil it down to the facts... Flash, Dale, and Zarkov leave earth in a rocketship for the planet Mongo, to ally with Barin and Vultan against Ming. Sure it was campy, but they didn't really change much of the basic pillars of the story. The movie is, sadly, more faithful than the recent Dynamite version where Flash is a himbo, Zarkov is perpetually drunk, and Dale is the brains (and brawn) of the group.
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Post by tonebone on Oct 12, 2021 12:20:26 GMT -5
The movies never get it right. Even the good ones. I have to disagree. They do undergo a ton of changes, mostly due to the fact that they have to tell a 90 minute story based on 10,000 pages of material. Look at Captain America (the first one). They perfectly (in my estimation) captured the heart of the story and characters, while retaining a great deal of the details. Is it perfect? Of course not, but it gets far more right than wrong. Winter Soldier continued that while weaving into it more modern parts of the mythos, while also expanding and evolving the larger MCU universe. Same with The Incredible Hulk. They used the comics AND the old TV show to produce a good (if not great) Hulk movie. When they miss the mark, it's painful (Black Widow, Captain Marvel) but, as a whole, it's a pretty remarkable, pretty faithful, achievement. Contrast that with the GreenArrowVerse method of using the "source material", where they seem to just draw names and concepts out of a hat, and just apply them to anything they want. Sort of a random name-drop method.
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Post by tingramretro on Oct 14, 2021 17:24:02 GMT -5
Anyone else tired of people explaining the MARVEL and DC HISTORY to them when all they’ve ever seen are the movies and tv series? Sorry for sounding so stuck up but I just had to vent. My sister finished Gotham and was raving about it. I explained the comic Victor Zsasz to her and she was Not even remotely interested. It is deeply annoying. There's a whole generation out there who is honestly believe they're Marvel or DC fans who've never read a comic and don't want to.
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Post by chadwilliam on Oct 14, 2021 17:53:16 GMT -5
Anyone else tired of people explaining the MARVEL and DC HISTORY to them when all they’ve ever seen are the movies and tv series? Sorry for sounding so stuck up but I just had to vent. My sister finished Gotham and was raving about it. I explained the comic Victor Zsasz to her and she was Not even remotely interested. Speaking as someone who's read a lot of comics, I think my eyes would glaze over if someone tried to explain "DC history to me". Superman suddenly has a teen-aged son? Commissioner Gordon was Batman for a while? Wally West is a bad guy? wha-? Even as someone who understands that DC loses faith in what it's doing every several years and starts again, there's only so much "So after Flashpoint, but before 5G which never happened, but kind of/sort of did for a bit, DC started bringing back some post-Crisis stuff which didn't completely gel with Birthright but that was ok because that only affected Superman and only for about six months, but Infinite Crisis..." I could take before I remembered why new comics aren't my thing. And don't the comics take enough from the films that it might even be easier to understand the comics if you understand the films? Sassy Aunt May; Lucius Fox knows who Batman is; Wonder Woman was the first superhero?
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Post by thwhtguardian on Oct 14, 2021 19:38:30 GMT -5
Anyone else tired of people explaining the MARVEL and DC HISTORY to them when all they’ve ever seen are the movies and tv series? Sorry for sounding so stuck up but I just had to vent. My sister finished Gotham and was raving about it. I explained the comic Victor Zsasz to her and she was Not even remotely interested. It is deeply annoying. There's a whole generation out there who is honestly believe they're Marvel or DC fans who've never read a comic and don't want to. Utterly clueless. Gate-keeping is a part of fandom I've never understood. Who are we to decide what makes someone a fan? If they like Batman because they think the symbol looks cool...then they're a fan. If they liked the Tim Burton Films...they're a fan. If the Mego doll was their favorite toy as a kid...then they can be a fan. And owning every issue of Batman ever made doesn't make one better in any way, shape or form. Your "fandomness" isn't greater than the girl who identifies with Batman because she thinks the t-shirt looks cool and looking down on her because she doesn't know exactly which issue the yellow shield symbol first showed up doesn't help anything.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2021 21:16:16 GMT -5
Anyone else tired of people explaining the MARVEL and DC HISTORY to them when all they’ve ever seen are the movies and tv series? Sorry for sounding so stuck up but I just had to vent. My sister finished Gotham and was raving about it. I explained the comic Victor Zsasz to her and she was Not even remotely interested. It is deeply annoying. There's a whole generation out there who is honestly believe they're Marvel or DC fans who've never read a comic and don't want to. Utterly clueless. I was a fan of Marvel and DC characters from Viewmaster reels, toys, cartoons, and syndicated reruns of Adam West Batman and George Reeves Adventures of Superman before I ever read a comic. I guess that makes me not a real fan and utterly clueless. -M
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Post by profh0011 on Oct 14, 2021 22:06:07 GMT -5
It's almost embarrassing to say this, but... I've got a HUGE collection of Agatha Christie films & TV shows on videotape... but to date, I've never read a single word of any of her stories. On the other hand, I have read 4 of John P. Marquand's MR. MOTO novels. (How many people these days can actually say that?)
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Post by profh0011 on Oct 14, 2021 22:09:35 GMT -5
Speaking as someone who's read a lot of comics, I think my eyes would glaze over if someone tried to explain "DC history to me". Superman suddenly has a teen-aged son? Commissioner Gordon was Batman for a while? Wally West is a bad guy? wha-? Wonder Woman was the first superhero? I know za feelink.
Oh, and as someone who grew up on newspaper strips, NOT comic-books... anyone could tell you, THE PHANTOM was the first costumed "superhero"!
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shaxper
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Posts: 22,707
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Post by shaxper on Oct 14, 2021 22:13:38 GMT -5
It's almost embarrassing to say this, but... I've got a HUGE collection of Agatha Christie films & TV shows on videotape... but to date, I've never read a single word of any of her stories. You shouldn't be embarrassed, but you absolutely SHOULD correct this. The novels are fantastic, and the A&E movies are nearly as excellent.
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Post by berkley on Oct 15, 2021 2:27:07 GMT -5
It's almost embarrassing to say this, but... I've got a HUGE collection of Agatha Christie films & TV shows on videotape... but to date, I've never read a single word of any of her stories. You shouldn't be embarrassed, but you absolutely SHOULD correct this. The novels are fantastic, and the A&E movies are nearly as excellent.
Haven't seen the Agatha Christie movies but I devoured the books when I was a teenager and look forward to reading them all again, if I ever find time.
On the Marvel/DC movies, I don't mind in the least that younger generations don't know or care anything about the comics. I care, and I feel no compunction in criticising the movies or in pointing out where I think they fail to capture the magic of the old comics that supposedly inspired them, but that's no reason they should: they didn't grow up reading those comics and I imagine that if they try to read them after a diet of the movies, the comics will just feel strange and old-fashioned to them.
When I talk to younger people about the movies, I usually try to find common ground and chime in with the things I do like about them. If anyone asked, I'd admit that for me they have little to do with the comics I used to read, but I would try my best to express that opinion in a way that wouldn't sound like I wanted to undermine their enjoyment of the films.
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