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Post by tingramretro on Sept 13, 2021 7:39:23 GMT -5
I still don't understand why Marvel doesn't own their version of Red Sonya.
The licensing deal meant that all of the work was owned by the license holder, meaning the Howard Estate, including stuff derived from it. Since the idea for Red Sonja came from a Howard story, with a Red Sonya, it wasn't something original they created, like Shang Chi (in relation to the Fu Manchu characters). Therefore, the estate controlled that material, just as Lucasfilm owned the Marvel Star wars comics material. That is why Dark Horse could reprint those Marvel stories. As said, red Sonja was split off into a separate holding company, for licensing purposes and Marvel seems to have only licensed Conan and whoever else has popped up. Maybe Marvel hasn't negotiated a deal, or hasn't completed one. Maybe their research indicated too small of a demand for the cost of licensing. You missed the most obvious reason: that Dynamite have been publishing licensed Red Sonja comics continuously for over fifteen years now and seem likely to keep doing so, and so long as they hold the rights, Marvel have no say in the matter. Why would the Red Sonja Corporation terminate an agreement that's been serving them well since 2004 or so, just to hand the licence to Marvel, who barely used the character the last time they published her? |
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 13, 2021 11:12:05 GMT -5
The licensing deal meant that all of the work was owned by the license holder, meaning the Howard Estate, including stuff derived from it. Since the idea for Red Sonja came from a Howard story, with a Red Sonya, it wasn't something original they created, like Shang Chi (in relation to the Fu Manchu characters). Therefore, the estate controlled that material, just as Lucasfilm owned the Marvel Star wars comics material. That is why Dark Horse could reprint those Marvel stories. As said, red Sonja was split off into a separate holding company, for licensing purposes and Marvel seems to have only licensed Conan and whoever else has popped up. Maybe Marvel hasn't negotiated a deal, or hasn't completed one. Maybe their research indicated too small of a demand for the cost of licensing. You missed the most obvious reason: that Dynamite have been publishing licensed Red Sonja comics continuously for over fifteen years now and seem likely to keep doing so, and so long as they hold the rights, Marvel have no say in the matter. Why would the Red Sonja Corporation terminate an agreement that's been serving them well since 2004 or so, just to hand the licence to Marvel, who barely used the character the last time they published her? For the simple fact that Marvel is a subsidiary of Disney, one of the world's largest entertainment conglomerates. It could be perceived as a lucrative deal, in a wider scope, if it were a combination of comic publishing and a movie franchise. These decisions aren't always about one media stream. I'm not saying they would or should. i was merely answering why Marvel does not own the Red Sonja material derived there. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2021 11:59:39 GMT -5
There's already a Sonja movie currently in production, so that aspect of the license is off the table for anyone looking at taking over the Sonja license, so it would just be comics, video games and prose print (and possibly TV depending on how the movie license was structured). But since Conan itself (a much more popular and well known license) has had 3 streaming TV series passed on already and 2 movie deals fall through since the Momoa movie, I doubt anyone is going to buy in on a lesser known license like Sonja, Kane, or Kull. As for comics themselves, economy of scale is a huge factor. Marvel, due to the structure and overhead of the publishing department, needs a book to sell minimum of 15-20K to really be profitable for them. Conan has barely been getting to that level (in fact Savage Avengers featuring Conan has outsold the regular Conan book in the direct market as singles), and due to the nature of the direct market and the preorder structure, unless fans already know they want to buy a book and preorder it, books are not going to be on the shelves to be able to find or grow an audience, so it's not a risk to launch books like Kane or Solomon, it's a guaranteed failure as there is not enough of a built in audience who will preorder them to even give them a chance of finding an audience. Taking a risk a book will find an audience is a quaint outdated concept that was irrelevant as soon as a discovery market in the mass market like newsstands was no longer available. The direct market only serves to bring books customers already know they want to the market of the customer base it serves. It has zero reach to new audiences and new potential customers.
If those types of characters are ever to succeed and find a new market, it would have to be in some other format than a monthly periodical format comic book, and since Marvel is not really in that market and it's current leadership has doubled down on the direct market, such a format for those characters isn't likely to happen, and would be an uphill battle to find an audience even if it was, as the OGN market is really a YA audience and the tropes and tone of sword & sorcery true to the Howard spirit doesn't play in that market or with the demographic it serves.
It'd be nice to see Kane and Kull and others out there, I'd certainly buy them, but I am an exception in this market, not a rule, and since it is a virtual impossibility, and I have too many other things to do than wonder/worry about impossibilities, so I rarely indulge in those types of conversations any more.
-M
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Post by mikelmidnight on Sept 14, 2021 11:30:52 GMT -5
Of course that was a different time when we young people were capable of having longer attention spans and accepted the difference in times, finding interest in that. Now it is a different time, most young people have shorter attention spans and smaller windows of acceptance in what they like. It is sad. In my office I work with 5 people all under 30 years old. NONE of them read books. None will watch a movie or TV show in black and white. All 5 live with their cell phone in their hand. They refuse to listen to older music styles. They have ZERO interest or desire for anything of the past.
I grew up in the 1970s and 80s and this perfectly describes almost all my classmates.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2021 12:03:51 GMT -5
Ok so relevant to some of what has been discussed here-Conan Properties has a new owner as of this morning-a video game studio-FunCom-which has produced Conan games before, has acquired in full The Cabinet Group, of which Conan and REH's IP Estate were a part of. Unfortunately, Frederick Malmberg, the man with lack of vision and ability to get anything done, who has overseen Conan Properties through the last several owners and incarnations, remains on board and in charge of Conan, so it may be a case of the more things change... The new owners seem to be inclined to let all existing licenses continue, and their main focus is going to be to exploit Conan and other REH IP in the realm of video games. With all that, I wouldn't hold my breath looking for Kull or Kane comics any time soon. -M |
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