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Post by Ozymandias on Apr 13, 2021 12:56:58 GMT -5
In the first two volumes, they skipped the end credits. For example, this is the original for #26:  And this the Omnibus version:
 But if there were no title at the end:  Then it was left all black:  Now get used to it, because with the 3rd one:  No matter what, this is what you get:  |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Apr 13, 2021 18:11:12 GMT -5
I don't think you're images are working, but Marvel is sadly notorious for bad trades so I'm hardly surprised there are issues.
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Post by Ozymandias on Apr 14, 2021 1:12:49 GMT -5
Working in what sense? The last one isn't exactly focused, but I think you can see what I'm trying to convey.
It's true that trades have been horrible in the past, but they've kind of mend their ways in r4ecent years, as more and more of their output ends up being compiled. It surprised me to see that such a highly praised series was met with such an inexplicable and unfortunate design decision.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Apr 14, 2021 2:30:18 GMT -5
Working in what sense? (...) Like me, he probably can't see anything at all. I don't see any images in your first post. |
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Post by Dizzy D on Apr 14, 2021 6:00:37 GMT -5
(Had to reset my password, because I haven't logged in at CBR in years and couldn't remember my password).
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Post by thwhtguardian on Apr 14, 2021 6:30:28 GMT -5
I don't even see HTML links
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Post by Dizzy D on Apr 14, 2021 6:47:08 GMT -5
I don't even see HTML links Only saw them by quoting and go to BBCode. |
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Post by Ozymandias on Apr 14, 2021 7:39:15 GMT -5
Serves me right for being lazy, how about now?
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Post by thwhtguardian on Apr 14, 2021 7:58:25 GMT -5
There up, though honestly I thought it was going to be worse. I don't think individual credits or issue titles are really ever included, so it doesn't seem like a huge deal to me. Completely missing pages, dialogue swaps, pages out of order or even issues skipped are common occurrences for Marvel trades though, and those are things that really mess up a story.
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Post by Ozymandias on Apr 14, 2021 8:03:55 GMT -5
The way I see it, Ewing's decision to always place the credits at the end, almost always along the title, is a creative decision that shouldn't be altered.
Evidently, the things you mention are worse, but still, there's no excuse for erasing that part of the "story".
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Post by thwhtguardian on Apr 14, 2021 8:11:42 GMT -5
The way I see it, Ewing's decision to always place the credits at the end, almost always along the title, is a creative decision that shouldn't be altered. Evidently, the things you mention are worse, but still, there's no excuse for erasing that part of the "story". It's not part of the story though...it does nothing to forward the plot, provide insight to the characters or help create a mood or enhance the atmosphere...it's a credit page that just tells you who wrote it and who did the art, coloring, inking and editing and in trades those things are all printed at the start of the book. Credit pages and bylines are simply contractual obligations, and there's no standard for where they really appear; some writers and artists like them to be at the start, some prefer to have them alongside the hook of the story or the most dynamic spread while others prefer the end and so editors follow their requests and place them where they like. With trades and omnibuses however things are different, they are published in a way to make comics appear like traditional books and in the world of traditional print there are standard expectations for where creators are credited...and that's at the front of the book, so that's where and why trades put them there. |
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Post by Ozymandias on Apr 14, 2021 9:22:10 GMT -5
[...] some writers and artists like them to be at the start, some prefer to have them alongside the hook of the story or the most dynamic spread while others prefer the end [...] And that's an artistic choice which has an influence in storytelling. For example, one of the things PAD was notorious for, was placing them at the end inside a black panel, as if they were movie credits. This wasn't the norm in the 80's, it was his thing.
As for trades being aimed at a different audience, I have nothing against them placing credits at the start (which in this case, they do), but they should also be were Ewing intended them to be. BTW, those are on a per page detail, unlike the ones at the start, which are much less specific.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Apr 14, 2021 9:34:44 GMT -5
[...] some writers and artists like them to be at the start, some prefer to have them alongside the hook of the story or the most dynamic spread while others prefer the end [...] And that's an artistic choice which has an influence in storytelling. For example, one of the things PAD was notorious for, was placing them at the end inside a black panel, as if they were movie credits. This wasn't the norm in the 80's, it was his thing.
As for trades being aimed at a different audience, I have nothing against them placing credits at the start (which in this case, they do), but they should also be were Ewing intended them to be. BTW, those are on a per page detail, unlike the ones at the start, which are much less specific.
It doesn't influence the story telling though...does it forward the plot? Change the pace? Provide characterization? The answer to all that is no, and those are the elements of story telling. There's an objective way to measure this, if you can be honest with yourself, if you had no idea those titles and credits were there and your first experience was the trade can you honestly say you would have lost anything from your reading experience? Further, name a story that you read in trade only and never experienced as a single issue. Did you feel that was incomplete? I imagine you might wonder why there is a black bar at the end of each chapter, but would you feel you were missing a piece of the story? Again, if you're honest then the answer has to be no...because at the end of the day they are just credit blurbs and don't actually convey any part of the story. |
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Post by Ozymandias on Apr 14, 2021 10:32:55 GMT -5
"Change the pace?"
It does, which is why on movies, you shouldn't get important information while the credits are on the screen.
"Name a story that you read in trade only and never experienced as a single issue. Did you feel that was incomplete?"
New Maps of Hell (JLA Classified), covers weren't inserted between issues and that hindered my reading experience (change of pace), to the point where, had it been a better story, I might've purchased the single issues afterwards. I guess you won't object to the equivalent I'm introducing between credits and covers, as they don't forward the plot or provide characterization in this instance.
"I imagine you might wonder why there is a black bar at the end of each chapter, but would you feel you were missing a piece of the story?"
I feel the page has been poorly composed, which is also part of storytelling in the comic medium.
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Post by badwolf on Apr 14, 2021 12:16:33 GMT -5
It looks weird without the credits. To me, having them there is like
[title]
[was brought to you by] (implied)
[credits]
Without the credits there's no point putting it at the end. Just put it on the first page or splash.
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