shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Mar 23, 2021 19:56:42 GMT -5
Anyone who knows me at all knows I could give two poops what Marvel is doing with its established characters in 2021, but this morning a former student I keep up with wrote to me, asking me question upon question about local LCSes. Turns out, he heard about the new gay Captain America and just had to read it. He's in his twenties, gay, and has faced more discrimination (often physical, sometimes with weapons) than you'd care to imagine. He's strong and a born scrapper, a lot like Steve Rogers at the start of that first film. For years, there's been no mainstream representation for a tough, confident kid who happens to love folks of the same gender. I know folks get caught up in "quota politics" with comics, especially at Marvel, but damn did this mean everything to this kid. Someone wearing the suit and shield AND being a gay man. Wow. What can I say? I called my LCS and asked him to pull it for me too. I'm going to support this move and hopefully grow to love this character. Here's the official news: www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/books/2021/mar/18/marvel-announces-first-gay-captain-america-aaron-fischer-united-states-of-captain-america#scso=_RY1aYKjvOeeW_QbQrq7IAg14:864.3333129882812 |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2021 20:00:48 GMT -5
I saw this the other day on one news feed or another. While I am not personally interested in it, I think it's great for folks like your former student and others. Representation matters and it's only those who take representation for granted because they are always represented that don't seen to think so. I hope it flourishes, and I will probably check it out at some point on Unlimited.
-M
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2021 0:20:47 GMT -5
I have zero interest in it. . but then again, I still have very bad memories of the way Marvel treated gay characters (and by extension their gay customers) in the 80's and 90's
yes, yes, I know.. . Hulkling/Wiccian, America Chavez, they've come a long long way.
but I still remember the revulsion at Northstar's "I AM GAY". . and the fury when an HIV positive character in Peter David's "Hulk" book killed themselves upon testing positive.
I truly am thrilled for the younger, gay, crowd that is coming up with characters that they see representing themselves, and have hope.
but I'm not the target here, and my memory is long. I may forgive, but I dont' forget, so yeah. . no interest from me.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2021 0:27:39 GMT -5
here's the letter I actually wrote into the comic.
well.. sort of - they edited the hell out of it to make it read MUCH more positive (i was really angry) when I wrote in - longhand on a ripped out piece of notebook paper.
and then they used the "editing" to follow up by posting the National Suicide Hotline number in response - instead of really addressing what I wrote in for: namely that HIV + status isn't a death sentence.
I guess props to them for leaving my opening in the letter "Damn you, damn you, damn you" - but they really did change most of the context in that it's shocking that what's left reads as well as it does.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Mar 24, 2021 7:33:03 GMT -5
I'd love to read the original letter!
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,867
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Post by shaxper on Mar 24, 2021 9:44:17 GMT -5
I'd love to read the original letter! Same. What you wrote was amazing, Bert. I've never read the issue in question and will now have to. And I agree about Northstar's coming out. It was tactless shock value instead of true inclusivity. I wanted to be excited about it, but it instead felt cheap and lazy. |
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Post by Prince Hal on Mar 24, 2021 10:10:41 GMT -5
Well done, @bert. So frustrating that they cut the bulk of your letter.
Wasn't reading comics much when this occurred, but it's clear from your letter that David dropped the ball. Sounds more like it was less a sincere attempt to address the AIDS issue than it was exploitative. I'd have thought that, based on his reputation, David's story would have been more insightful.
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Post by mikelmidnight on Mar 24, 2021 11:29:34 GMT -5
I'm not that interested in franchising superheroes, although it makes more sense with Captain America than it did with the Thor Corps.
But if they're going to do it in the first place, this is as good a way as any, and I'm happy that someone finds value in this sort of representation.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2021 12:56:10 GMT -5
I'd love to read the original letter!
don't have a copy, because this was before computers (more than 26 years ago, the issue was published in 1994).
(and as noted, I was so angry after reading the issue, I literally sat down and wrote it long hand (front and back) on a sheet of notebook paper torn out of one of my College bluebooks).
they DID really take out most of the negative, but the words in there (mostly) are mine, even if rearranged to make it more positive so they could put the suicide hotline.
if you don't recall the issue in question, it was Incredible Hulk 420 - and a character, Chet, upon finding out he's HIV + parks his car on the train tracks.
the main story tho was Bruce's friend dying from AIDS, and refusing Bruce's blood transfusion offer (or maybe it was Bruce refusing to donate. . can't really recall).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2021 13:01:04 GMT -5
I had to go google, but the "at least HIV didnt' give anyone superpowers in your Universe" was in reference to (and yes, this is real), "Bloodfire"
from 1993:
"Bloodfire! Story by John Mazag and Joseph A. Zyskowski. Art by Julius Jackson. The debut of the superhero Bloodfire. Critically wounded in battle, marine Brian Reace is given an experimental formula that gives him superpowers, as well as flammable blood and a deadly HIV infection. He becomes the secret agent known as Bloodfire. 32 pages, Full Color. Cover price $3.50."
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2021 11:13:47 GMT -5
I saw this the other day on one news feed or another. While I am not personally interested in it, I think it's great for folks like your former student and others. Representation matters and it's only those who take representation for granted because they are always represented that don't seen to think so. I hope it flourishes, and I will probably check it out at some point on Unlimited. -M I was just going to "like" this, but then I thought it bears repeating. I'm one of those Straight White Dudes, and I had to make an initial effort to understand what you're talking about (not just from reading your words now, I mean in my younger days). A little bit of empathy goes along way, I think. I've always given the first stabs at representation some slack as far as being awkward or looking forced. It seems the first attempts can't help but be self-conscious of their role of representation (I'd be interested in an example refuting this), but the first clumsy steps are necessary to get the ball rolling. With diversity slowly becoming the norm in fiction, representation is starting to be incorporated less self-consciously, and stories which include diversity can be written and read more on their merits as a whole. There's always going to be the "representation is a stunt" faction of fandom, but I think it's shrinking. When my bi daughter and her lesbian best friend get together and watch movies with gay protagonists, I warn them that there's probably going to be an exceptional amount of crap, because the film-makers understand the hunger for representation, and figure they can make a buck by feeding that, and have to concern themselves even less than usual with making a good film. Maybe that's just my cynicism, but it's better to raise her too cynical than too naive. And as a short person, I was disappointed when they didn't cast Wolverine at his correct height for the movies. Where's my representation? Oh right, about 90% of the protagonists out there represent me in every other way. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Mar 25, 2021 12:55:41 GMT -5
No idea what this character will be about, but I like his using a trashcan lid as a shield and his wearing ordinary red, white and blue clothes (instead of a Stark- or Richards-designed costume). It really conveys the idea of a street-level hero who is inspired by the high ideals of Captain America and fights for ordinary citizens; those who don't live in space stations, grand mansions or their own high rise building.
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Post by Prince Hal on Mar 25, 2021 13:06:32 GMT -5
No idea what this character will be about, but I like his using a trashcan lid as a shield and his wearing ordinary red, white and blue clothes (instead of a Stark- or Richards-designed costume). It really conveys the idea of a street-level hero who is inspired by the high ideals of Captain America and fights for ordinary citizens; those who don't live in space stations, grand mansions or their own high rise building. Ma Hunkel with an attitude. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Mar 25, 2021 13:15:39 GMT -5
No idea what this character will be about, but I like his using a trashcan lid as a shield and his wearing ordinary red, white and blue clothes (instead of a Stark- or Richards-designed costume). It really conveys the idea of a street-level hero who is inspired by the high ideals of Captain America and fights for ordinary citizens; those who don't live in space stations, grand mansions or their own high rise building. Ma Hunkel with an attitude. I hadn't thought of Ma Hunkel at all, but you're right!!! The trashcan lid is also a great reminder of our younger days. What comic-book reader from the ?0s and 70s hasn't used a trashcan lid as a shield? (Their only problem was that the handle was sort of on the wrong side... and they did smell a little.) |
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Post by EdoBosnar on Mar 25, 2021 13:21:03 GMT -5
Ma Hunkel with an attitude. *ahem* Ma Hunkel already has an attitude. |
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