Post by Slam_Bradley on Sept 29, 2020 14:59:26 GMT -5
Stream of consciousness as I watch...
I love seeing books like that JLA #47. That's a book that a kid read and loved.
Love the reference to Feiffer's "The Great Comic Book Heroes." I bought a copy of that from a B. Dalton in probably about 1980. Was a huge influence on how I viewed comics.
Talking about Mad is interesting. I don't think I ever bought an issue of Mad new off the rack. But I had a fairly comprehensive collection of Mad from the 1970s, probably 2/3 of the issues published, all put together from yard sales.
Growing up in small town Idaho I can absolutely identify with mail-ordering comics and comic ephemera. For me it was back-issues, not undergrounds, but the thrill of that package was the same.
I think that undergrounds were not only tied to a certain time period, but also were kind of tied to geography. I was probably about a decade too late for them anyway, but I feel like you either had to be near a city or in a college town in order for them to have been in any way available outside mail. The most subversive things I ever came across were the odd issue of CarToons that my oldest brother would buy.
I came kind of late to Ambush Bug. I was taking comics far too seriously when it came out. That first mini is pure gold.
Crisis on Infinite Earths is just a terrible book.
I too have a complete blind-spot on Love & Rockets.
Post by Prince Hal on Sept 29, 2020 15:08:52 GMT -5
Thanks to both of you!
Loved this entire episode, especially when MDG (Marty) spoke about the creative period at the end of DC's Silver Age, and the dynamism of the artwork in Bob Hope, Inferior Five, etc.
You make a great point, MDG, when you mention that Adams' arrival was the end of a great deal of uniqueness in mainstream comics. He may have ushered in a new, more realistic style with his art, but as you imply, there should be room for all different kinds, and if readers only see one or two dominant styles, they can't always accept "other" approaches to making comics.
I think Trudeau had the same effect on strips with "Doonesbury." Panels with almost the exact same drawing within, with the dialogue doing the heavy lifting. And the shrinkage of comic strip size has played right into the convenience of that style. Schulz did it with "Peanuts," yes, but he was still the outlier back then.
"The rarer action is In virtue than in vengeance." -- The Tempest, 5.1
...You make a great point, MDG , when you mention that Adams' arrival was the end of a great deal of uniqueness in mainstream comics. He may have ushered in a new, more realistic style with his art, but as you imply, there should be room for all different kinds, and if readers only see one or two dominant styles, they can't always accept "other" approaches to making comics...
Yes, it becomes a case of "either or..." Adams's style became de rigeuer and it pushed out anything that didn't resemble it. Kirby was "old-fashioned."
MDG perfectly described the appeal of DC's late 60s/early 70s art and artists like Sekowsky, Sparling (his Secret Six work remains a highlight of my comic book reading days) and others back then. Yes, Sekowsky's figures were blocky, even his Di Prince and Supergirl stuff (he drew them both with his trademark short square torsos, as he'd done with the characters in the JLA comic) but boy, did the action form panel to panel move! And Sekowsky's facial work (esp. when inked by Giordano), for the heroes and grotesque villains alike, was just so spot on. Great, great episode, Marty and Scott. I have to run now but I'll be back with more comments.
Last Edit: Sept 30, 2020 20:49:54 GMT -5 by Farrar
Post by Roquefort Raider on Oct 2, 2020 12:17:03 GMT -5
Great discussion!!! Thanks, gentlemen!
"(...) It became universe maintenance instead of storytelling..." Truer words were never spoken!
Regarding Love & Rockets: one of the best deals I ever came across in comics were the two massive Locas hardcovers published by Fantagraphics. So much raw talent and creativity. Highly recommended.
Crimebuster's comment about style over the substance in super-hero comics is more easily noticeable when it comes to the art, but I think a good argument could be made about the same thing happening to scripts. I'm thinking in particular of characters suddenly all speaking the same way and all using the same trendy expressions, or of plot twists that all seem to be cut from the same cloth. Since those plot twists are usually extremely dramatic they satisfy momentarily, but they're like empty calories.
I thoroughly enjoyed MDG's selections. I have about half of these and am now very tempted to seek out the half that isn't currently in my wheelhouse. My one regret is that MDG was too humble to include any of his own professional work, which seems like a critical part of his origin story. I grew up reading X-O Manowar, for example and would love to hear his thoughts on the work he did there. And wasn't there a G'Nort story in there somewhere?
after watching it, I looked up the Toth podcast by Fricke mentioned by MDG to watch. The first episode at least is on youtube for those interested...
I'm three episodes into this podcast, and it is frickin' amazing. Ep 1 is an overview of Toth, Ep 2 is the top 10 Toth stories to read, Ep 3 is an hour or so long discussion between Paul and John Paul Leon about Toth and his influence. I can't recommend this podcast enough to anyone who is intereste din Toth or in the craft of making comics.
People don't want the Truth. They want only information that supports what they think they already know. -Vess from Invisible Kingdom
I see a comics culture that preserves and appreciates its past, but doesn't wallow in witless nostalgia. -Scott McCloud
Humans beings always do the most intelligent thing…after they’ve tried every stupid alternative and none of them have worked -Buckminster Fuller
I couldn't believe my eyes when MDG held up Batman #181. That was my very first DC!
And in answer to the question in the podcast, yes, this issue was published during the Batman TV show, which had just debuted a couple of months earlier. I was hooked on that show. My parents let me stay up late to watch it (it was on twice a week). So getting an actual Batman comic became my mission in life (before this, I'd only read Woody Woodpecker, Wendy the Good Little Witch, Casper, Chip 'N' Dale, etc., all of which I enjoyed...but now it was time to graduate to the big leagues!).
I didn't actually buy the comic by myself, no allowance yet--mom had to do it for me. What a cover! And I loved the pin-up that MDG mentioned--god, that Infantino-Anderson art. A lot of those I-A covers, and the Gil Kane covers, from that time, took my breath away; and that's even when I only saw them in house ads. But they were just so ingeniously conceived and eye-catching.
But I vividly remember being very disappointed in the actual stories in #181 (there were two in this issue). They just seemed so--insubstantial. Especially when compared the TV show. Yes, I know that sounds ludicrous, since the TV show was pure camp...but I didn't grasp that about the show back then. To me as a young viewer, the show contained action and danger and thrilling situations and characters I cared about. The comic book stories in #181 lacked that spirit. I guess I wanted to see the Riddler, Penguin, Joker, etc., you know, the villains I knew from TV.
I didn't buy any more Batman comics, but I started to read my cousins' Batmans. My cousins had a huge DC collection that dated back to the early 1960s, so once I started reading their comics I knew about DC's other characters and the Justice League comic. MDG said he bought Justice League of America #47 off the stands; for me, the first JLA comic I ever owned was some months later, JLA #52. As I noted in an earlier post here I agree with MDG regarding Mike Sekowsky; the guy was just so good and so distinctive and his pages almost turned by themselves, they were so imbued with dynamism and action. JLA #52 also contained some Sekowsky sword-and-sorcery type monsters and quirky/odd Sekowsky faces--loved them as a kid, love 'em still. Sekowsky is so underrated.