I'm up to #207 in my own reading. Can't wait to catch up to the discussion!

As Icctrombone says, you're in the midst of what's probably the weakest run in the first 300 issues of Avengers. Don't give up! It gets better with #211! At the least it gets a lot more interesting. 

OMG 15 minutes in when icc summed up the "superhero club" Avengers "We're only here to beat Kang..."

Great stuff, guys.   

I'm glad about the love issues #215-216 receive! They're two of my favourite stories too.

Alan Weiss did a great job on the issue. Thor rarely looked as godly as when he walks out of that restaurant! (The contrast with the mundane setting was both amusing and efficient).

Had talking to a villain ever been tried before? I mean, beyond the mandatory "oh, you really shouldn't do that"?

The revelation of each other's identity was a powerful yet subdued moment. I liked how Tony and Don felt embarrassed for not having told Steve earlier.

I also liked how Don comments on how to keep the Molecule Man incapacitated, "this isn't a cartoon. You can't keep hitting him on the head to keep him unconscious!"

I listened to the podcast and noticed that CB edited out the comments on issue # 218. It's okay because it was a pure fill-in issue written by De Matteis drawn by Don Perlin and inked by diverse hands. In a nutshell, it involves a boy that is immortal and comes to the Avengers wanting to end his life because , although he cannot die, his life has been unspectacular and he is tired of being reborn as a baby only to die an old man over and over again.




The Assemblers fail in trying to find a way to help him and he loses patience and leaves to stow away in rocket launch in hopes of ending his existence. He is transformed by the flight into space and comes back as a huge flame Monster which the Avengers have to put down.  Thor uses his hammer against him expecting that he won't survive Mjolnirs  assault but he does and is back to being a boy seemingly cured. 

The only comment I remember making about this issue  from the interview was that he almost got raped by Laurel and Hardy. 

A wise move.

That kind of issue made me miss reprints, in all honesty. And Avengers had lots of fill-ins in those days, as mentioned in the podcast... 

Wow. Much as I enjoyed the first part of this conversation, you both dropped so much wisdom on this one. Your emphasis on the humans at the heart of the team was so important. I especially loved Icctrombone pointing out all the points of no return for Hank, any one of which would have changed everything if events had played out slightly differently. And both of you discussing the team's revelation that it's necessary to start getting involved in one another's lives. Interesting though, as Scott keeps drawing recurring themes throughout this run, that the moral of #220 seems to be "Don't get involved if it isn't your business".

Hmmmm.


Two things I'd like to add to this conversation:

1. I LIKE Tigra. Much as Shooter is putting the humans in this run first and foremost, the original Avengers are far less fleshed out human beings than the team they have just replaced. Tigra was so very very human, and I found that endearing. I was truly sad when she left.

2. And that brings me to my second point. You both pointed out the amount of fill-in creators and issues in this run, but I think the chaos goes further than that. It's strange just how haphazardly organized this run is. Why did Moondragon try to assemble a new Avengers team in #211? We never learn. Why were the phone lines to Avengers Mansion cut, and by who? Going further, introducing a new team in #211 and then doing another membership drive only ten issues later?? I certainly didn't get the impression until the arbitrary end of #220 that Tigra was going anywhere.

And there are smaller inconsistencies too for someone as calculating and consistent as Shooter normally is. For example, when Hank steals the adamantium, the story plays up how precious and rare the material is. So how the hell did Hank drum up the parts for a giant adamantium robot on the fly? Even with Jan's limitless money, where was he going to get it?

Oh, and am I the only one who found Molecule Man's powers absurdly inconsistent? He can restore Thor's Hammer to perfect magical working order, but he can't do plumbing (which, by the way, was hilarious)?


I totally see what you are both saying about this run. It is mind-bogglingly mature, not just for the era, but for today as well. It's also messy as all hell.