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Post by Dr. Poison on Oct 12, 2014 10:48:55 GMT -5
From DC Comics website:  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2014 22:12:10 GMT -5
What's going on around here? ... This is kind of shocking to me. I don't like it and at the same time I do like it. So, it's all depends on the story line here and I'm for one is cautious about it.
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Post by Dr. Poison on Oct 13, 2014 6:46:17 GMT -5
I love this cover. Wonder Woman looks terrifying in a good sort of way. One of the best covers I've ever seen to be honest for the sheer amount of terror in provokes.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 7:23:32 GMT -5
I love this cover. Wonder Woman looks terrifying in a good sort of way. One of the best covers I've ever seen to be honest for the sheer amount of terror in provokes. The only thing I find terrifying is the large bloody phallic symbol brandished from her crotch and unnatural malformed and uneven bosom that dominate the center of the picture, positioned to draw the eye to them in a way that only Finch seems to accomplish as he skews the female human anatomy in ways it was never meant to be. Because that's exactly the kind of thing that will win back all the readers who were alienated by the "sexism" of the Azzarello run... -M |
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Post by Dr. Poison on Oct 13, 2014 7:57:57 GMT -5
I love this cover. Wonder Woman looks terrifying in a good sort of way. One of the best covers I've ever seen to be honest for the sheer amount of terror in provokes. The only thing I find terrifying is the large bloody phallic symbol brandished from her crotch and unnatural malformed and uneven bosom that dominate the center of the picture, positioned to draw the eye to them in a way that only Finch seems to accomplish as he skews the female human anatomy in ways it was never meant to be. Because that's exactly the kind of thing that will win back all the readers who were alienated by the "sexism" of the Azzarello run... -M - That's a common stance for a warrior. - Her bosom is completely covered. - Sexism isn't the only thing that drove long time fans away from Azzarello's run. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 8:07:20 GMT -5
It's covered but drawn in an unnatural shape that one only sees in bad silicon enhancements, and they are asymmetrical in size, shape and proportion. It is a common stance for a warrior except you do not hold the sword that close to the body because it offers no leverage and limits range of motion, however choosing to draw the stance so that the perspective shows the sword extending from the crotch rather than from another angle has nothing to do with the accuracy of the stance and everything to do with what you want to focus on and how you want to portray the female.
And as I have stated in several places , the largest most vocal long term supporters of Wonder Woman were those who saw her as an icon of feminine strength and grace, not masculine aggression in a female body (and the phallic stand in sword only hammers home the masculine aspect of the strength over the feminine-if it's strong it has to have a phallus and be masculine)-it was that element that made her an icon that endured for 75 years and it was the loss of that element that alienated the core of her fanbase, and it is that core that DC has given lip service to winning back, but covers like this just demonstrate they have no clue how to do that. It's a shame that other DC books are now doing things to win the untapped female audience, but the character who has been iconic to that audience has been given to an artist who traditionally alienated that audience even more than the previous writer on the book has.
I really like DC. I want them to be better, and blindly supporting and defending what they do, gives them no incentive to be better. If they want my money and support, they have to earn it, and covers like that just don't cut it because it sends all the wrong messages about the character and about how they want to portray strong women.
-M
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Post by Dr. Poison on Oct 13, 2014 8:15:06 GMT -5
It's covered but drawn in an unnatural shape that one only sees in bad silicon enhancements, and they are asymmetrical in size, shape and proportion. It is a common stance for a warrior except you do not hold the sword that close to the body because it offers no leverage and limits range of motion, however choosing to draw the stance so that the perspective shows the sword extending from the crotch rather than from another angle has nothing to do with the accuracy of the stance and everything to do with what you want to focus on and how you want to portray the female. And as I have stated in several places , the largest most vocal long term supporters of Wonder Woman were those who saw her as an icon of feminine strength and grace, not masculine aggression in a female body (and the phallic stand in sword only hammers home the masculine aspect of the strength over the feminine-if it's strong it has to have a phallus and be masculine)-it was that element that made her an icon that endured for 75 years and it was the loss of that element that alienated the core of her fanbase, and it is that core that DC has given lip service to winning back, but covers like this just demonstrate they have no clue how to do that. It's a shame that other DC books are now doing things to win the untapped female audience, but the character who has been iconic to that audience has been given to an artist who traditionally alienated that audience even more than the previous writer on the book has. I really like DC. I want them to be better, and blindly supporting and defending what they do, gives them no incentive to be better. If they want my money and support, they have to earn it, and covers like that just don't cut it because it sends all the wrong messages about the character and about how they want to portray strong women. -M What has DC said about getting pre-Azzarello Wonder Woman fans back? As for her stance, look at her eyes. She's clearly either amped up and/or a little crazy so I doubt she's thinking 100% clearly. Since the cover was revealed yesterday, you are the first person I've seen that thinks this cover sends the wrong message and I've probably read over 100 comments about it on various avenues of social media. I'm certainly not saying that you're wrong in your view but I don't see anything offensive about this cover. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 13:12:11 GMT -5
I don't have a strong opinion on the cover, but if I wasn't told it was Wonder Woman I'd assume it was from Conan or some viking comic.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 13:14:12 GMT -5
Also, the eyes say "possessed" to me more than anything.
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Post by Dr. Poison on Oct 13, 2014 15:35:18 GMT -5
I don't have a strong opinion on the cover, but if I wasn't told it was Wonder Woman I'd assume it was from Conan or some viking comic. This is Wonder Woman in her God of War apparel which is something that was introduced in Azzarello's run. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 15:59:44 GMT -5
So this look that doesn't say "Wonder Woman" comes from a run that Wonder Eoman fans feel didn't properly capture the essence of thr character. Not surprising.
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Post by Dr. Poison on Oct 13, 2014 16:19:13 GMT -5
So this look that doesn't say "Wonder Woman" comes from a run that Wonder Eoman fans feel didn't properly capture the essence of thr character. Not surprising. Bingo! I'm hoping that the Finchs do a better job with the character and from all of the interviews I've read or watched, Meredith seems very respectful to the character so I have hopes of her giving us a version of Wonder Woman I can appreciate again. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 16:23:37 GMT -5
What has DC said about getting pre-Azzarello Wonder Woman fans back? As for her stance, look at her eyes. She's clearly either amped up and/or a little crazy so I doubt she's thinking 100% clearly. Since the cover was revealed yesterday, you are the first person I've seen that thinks this cover sends the wrong message and I've probably read over 100 comments about it on various avenues of social media. I'm certainly not saying that you're wrong in your view but I don't see anything offensive about this cover. Who is looking at the eyes? That's not he focal point of the piece. Start at any point on the edge of the piece. Draw a line to the center. Where they intersect is the focal point of the piece and where the eyes of the consumer/viewer will start. Where is that? Her eyes? No. Right smack dab on the deformed boobs and bloody phallic sword base in the crotch. If the artist wanted to make the eyes the focal point and the message of the piece, they would be at the intersection point and be where the viewer eye starts and is drawn to. If Finch wanted that,, it would be easy to do by pulling the camera back and giving a wider angle where the head moves to the center of the piece so they eyes are front and center, or by titling the camera angle up focusing on the hear/face not the torso core. Finch is a competent enough artist to know what he is doing and where he is directing the eye when he determines the layout of the cover. We are also given no background to give the image context, only dark motion lines filling the empty space behind so there is nothing to draw the eye away from that focal point and redirect it. All the lines draw you to the center and keep you there, visually speaking. So the whole design of the piece from a form standpoint is about boobs and swords. And that is how they are selling Wonder Woman and why I strongly dislike this piece and feel that DC has no clue how to capture or bring back what was Wonder Woman's biggest core audience. Also as an aside, I showed this pic of a warrior stance to a someone today who is familiar with sword fighting, and their reaction was-what an awful stance for a woman. Doesn't the artist now that a woman's body type has a different center of gravity than a man's and while that stance might work for a male build, it would leave a woman warrior wielding a sword like that completely off balance and vulnerable. Their evaluation was that the artist didn't do their homework or had no interest in accuracy and was simply going for cheesecake exploitation of the woman warrior theme. Wonder Woman never had the best sales, but its core audience was a different demographic than that of some of the rest of the DC line. With the new52 they essentially abandoned the old fan demographic and redesigned her and remade her to appeal to the same core demographic that buys the male power fantasy comics of the rest of the DC line, and in so doing alienated the core of her traditional fanbase, that remains a vastly untapped potential audience for DC comics. IF DC were more concerned with expanding their audience and less concerned with beating Marvel for marketshare in the small pie that is the current marketplace, we might be getting different, better comics. And as for me being the only negative person only one saying the cover sends the wrong message-show it around to some non-hardcore DC fans and see what they think/say-hey even try some non-comic fans, as I have done. I haven't heard one positive comment from anyone who is not a hardcore DC fan already about that cover. The closest I got was, it's not terrible but that's not Wonder Woman from someone who only knew Wonder Woman from other media. -M |
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Post by Dr. Poison on Oct 13, 2014 16:48:36 GMT -5
What has DC said about getting pre-Azzarello Wonder Woman fans back? As for her stance, look at her eyes. She's clearly either amped up and/or a little crazy so I doubt she's thinking 100% clearly. Since the cover was revealed yesterday, you are the first person I've seen that thinks this cover sends the wrong message and I've probably read over 100 comments about it on various avenues of social media. I'm certainly not saying that you're wrong in your view but I don't see anything offensive about this cover. Who is looking at the eyes? That's not he focal point of the piece. Start at any point on the edge of the piece. Draw a line to the center. Where they intersect is the focal point of the piece and where the eyes of the consumer/viewer will start. Where is that? Her eyes? No. Right smack dab on the deformed boobs and bloody phallic sword base in the crotch. If the artist wanted to make the eyes the focal point and the message of the piece, they would be at the intersection point and be where the viewer eye starts and is drawn to. If Finch wanted that,, it would be easy to do by pulling the camera back and giving a wider angle where the head moves to the center of the piece so they eyes are front and center, or by titling the camera angle up focusing on the hear/face not the torso core. Finch is a competent enough artist to know what he is doing and where he is directing the eye when he determines the layout of the cover. We are also given no background to give the image context, only dark motion lines filling the empty space behind so there is nothing to draw the eye away from that focal point and redirect it. All the lines draw you to the center and keep you there, visually speaking. So the whole design of the piece from a form standpoint is about boobs and swords. And that is how they are selling Wonder Woman and why I strongly dislike this piece and feel that DC has no clue how to capture or bring back what was Wonder Woman's biggest core audience. Also as an aside, I showed this pic of a warrior stance to a someone today who is familiar with sword fighting, and their reaction was-what an awful stance for a woman. Doesn't the artist now that a woman's body type has a different center of gravity than a man's and while that stance might work for a male build, it would leave a woman warrior wielding a sword like that completely off balance and vulnerable. Their evaluation was that the artist didn't do their homework or had no interest in accuracy and was simply going for cheesecake exploitation of the woman warrior theme. Wonder Woman never had the best sales, but its core audience was a different demographic than that of some of the rest of the DC line. With the new52 they essentially abandoned the old fan demographic and redesigned her and remade her to appeal to the same core demographic that buys the male power fantasy comics of the rest of the DC line, and in so doing alienated the core of her traditional fanbase, that remains a vastly untapped potential audience for DC comics. IF DC were more concerned with expanding their audience and less concerned with beating Marvel for marketshare in the small pie that is the current marketplace, we might be getting different, better comics. And as for me being the only negative person only one saying the cover sends the wrong message-show it around to some non-hardcore DC fans and see what they think/say-hey even try some non-comic fans, as I have done. I haven't heard one positive comment from anyone who is not a hardcore DC fan already about that cover. The closest I got was, it's not terrible but that's not Wonder Woman from someone who only knew Wonder Woman from other media. -M I have seen people say they dislike this cover but not because it sends the wrong message. I am part of that Wonder Woman audience that DC abandoned in the New 52(at least until Superman/Wonder Woman launched - great book btw). I realize that the eyes aren't at the center of this piece but they're the first thing to capture my attention any time I look at it. How would you recommend DC gets back more of Wonder Woman's traditional fan-base? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 17:00:56 GMT -5
Present a strong female character without resorting to masculinizing her to do so. Tell compelling stories that showcase her strength, independence, relationships, and ability to stand as a hero and as a person. Limit or eliminate fan service type covers screaming of objectification. Give her a prominent role in the DC world that isn't dependent on her relationship to a love interest (Superman) or on men in general (-oh let's showcase Wonder Woman by making her Superman's arm candy/trophy girl or let's give her a new title of standalone stories and the very first one we don't showcase what makes Wonder Woman so cool, we make her literally a Batman copycat-is exactly the wrong way to go about this). Find the things that have made Wonder Woman an iconic character for 75 years, the enduring core of the character that built that audience and put those things front and center about the character.... I wonder why these current products licensed from DC...   with messages like this...  are selling better than the Wonder Woman new52 comic book and are being better received by the mass audience who find this depiction of Wonder Woman inspirational and empowering to woman and others than the fan service boobs and sword imagery that the new52 has been putting out....maybe because they are promoting those very enduring ideas that made Wonder Woman great and not reducing her to a male fanboy fantasy piece. -M |
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