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Post by lordyam on Dec 18, 2019 1:47:28 GMT -5
Fair enough. Gibbons didn't like it but he said he could understand why people did and even then Gary Frank specifically got in contact to say "would you be offended if I did this." Part of the reason I didn't mind is that, like it or not a LOT of people DO misinterpret Watchmen (as said before they fail to grasp that Walter and Ozy are both nuts) and that misinterpretation DID lead to a lot of bad attempts to copy watchmen. Doomsday Clock at the very least DOES try to clear a few things up (That speech where Rorschach II ultimately breaks down upon learning that Walter Kovacs was a nutjob who destroyed his parent's marriage and that he's been running around wearing the mask of the guy who destroyed his father).
If you ARE doing a sequel you should at least TRY to honor it, and whatever John's faults he IS trying to respect the source material. You can argue about how well he succeeds but the thought does count.
A good comparison may be of all things Lion King 2. It may not be necessary and it certainly wasn't as good as the original, but for a direct to dvd sequel it was....actually pretty good with a likable cast a FANTASTIC villain and even managing to have some of the shakespearian overtones of the original.
Disney direct to dvd sequels actually spring to mind. Most are god awful but occasionally there is a small gem (Lion King II was actually fairly decent as far as sequels go; it wasn't necessary and it certainly wasn't as good as the original but honestly
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Post by Duragizer on Dec 18, 2019 1:54:09 GMT -5
There's just one thing and one thing only I want to know:
Has the Watchmen Universe been assigned an Earth number/letter/unpronounceable symbol yet?
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Post by rberman on Dec 18, 2019 8:10:06 GMT -5
There's just one thing and one thing only I want to know: Has the Watchmen Universe been assigned an Earth number/letter/unpronounceable symbol yet? Yes and no. This was one of the purposes of Grant Morrison's 2015 Multiversity project. He amalgamated the Charlton Universe with the Watchmen as "Earth-4."  |
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Post by tingramretro on Dec 18, 2019 9:37:43 GMT -5
For me Watchmen is....interesting. Ozymandias is a fantastic villain and Moore IS a fantastic writer regardless of what one thinks of the man himself. However the Nixon being president 5 times.....yeah that was just silly. Overturning a constitutional amendment is no easy feat and I think that’s one of the weaker elements in the world building. Didn't seem sily to me, but then, I have no idea what your constitution does or doesn't say and wasn't really aware that there was a limit on how many times someone could be president until you mentioned it. I doubt Alan thought it was a big deal either, it's probably one of those things non Americans don't think about. |
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Post by tingramretro on Dec 18, 2019 9:43:11 GMT -5
At this point, I'm just glad the whole thing seems to have restored the JSA and ther entire continuity. There's a hint at the end that we're in for another reality changing event soon (which was already strongly suspected), but that it'll be undone within a few years (which is nice to know).
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Post by lordyam on Dec 18, 2019 14:12:00 GMT -5
Didn’t end the way I expected and yet it totally fit both Superman and Doctor Manhattan. We also see BATMAN of all people being a bringer of hope.
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Post by wickedmountain on Jan 4, 2020 14:14:57 GMT -5
I want Earth 1985 and a Earth 2 ongoing monthly series! Not a one shot, not a mini series , A Regular series please . Plus books about other Earths to please old and modern ones.
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Post by lordyam on Jan 29, 2020 5:50:55 GMT -5
Honestly having read it I can say that it's about a 7 out of 10. It's not as good as the original but on it's own merit it's a somewhat worthy sequel. Geoff Johns truly DID try to honor the characters and themes and he did a good job. Ozymandias and Dr Manhattan are ultimately shown to be very human (one of the things that Superman uses to get through to him is that Manhattan is shedding photos of Janey everywhere he goes.) Ozy.....is actually saving the world and his plan does succeed. The only thing that he doesn't count on is Reggie choosing to save him so he can face justice for his crimes.
I actually liked that Supes and Manhattan didn't have a big brawl. Superman's a fighter but that's not the core of who he is. He's a beacon of hope; he fights to inspire others and encourage them to be the best. While not all of the comparisons landed (in this day and age the alt right tends to be FAR worse than anything on the left) Johns is right to say that Superman's idealism and refusal to give up is what makes him so inspiring.
With a lot of people praising Zach Snyder's vision it's something we need to hear. For all his flaws Johns GETS Superman.
As for Watchmen.....I actually think Johns did a good job. There's room for the story to grow but things have also concluded. Ozy's spending the rest of his life in jail, and the rest of the world has been given a second chance. Manhattan's gone as well. There's room for extra stories but the main arcs have been concluded, with a bit more of a hopeful ending than Watchmen's original.
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Post by beyonder1984 on Mar 11, 2020 16:46:32 GMT -5
Would love to know the ages of the readers who were not offended at the audacity of Doomsday Clock. Are there no real Alan Moore fans left?
Reading Issue 1 now...from a friend...what a huge drop off in writing and artwork compared to 1986. Pale imitation.
Moore was at another level at all levels, from politics to structure to symbolism.
Johns, one of the most in-demand modern writers is...ordinary here. His politics are not subtle or ironic.
Gary Frank's pencils seemed more crisp when he was on the Hulk and Supergirl. No attempt to create a deep level like Gibbons.
A sequel which should have never been made. Moore was right about this...anyone who bought it is part of the problem.
DC simply does not understand Watchmen, besides being a cash grab of course, linking to DC main.
Even Morrison would have failed at this, but at least he'd try to be artsy.
What a pedestrian event. Professional fan fiction.
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Post by rberman on Mar 11, 2020 17:19:15 GMT -5
Would love to know the ages of the readers who were not offended at the audacity of Doomsday Clock. Are there no real Alan Moore fans left? Reading Issue 1 now...from a friend...what a huge drop off in writing and artwork compared to 1986. Pale imitation. Moore was at another level at all levels, from politics to structure to symbolism. Johns, one of the most in-demand modern writers is...ordinary here. His politics are not subtle or ironic. Gary Frank's pencils seemed more crisp when he was on the Hulk and Supergirl. No attempt to create a deep level like Gibbons. A sequel which should have never been made. Moore was right about this...anyone who bought it is part of the problem. DC simply does not understand Watchmen, besides being a cash grab of course, linking to DC main. Even Morrison would have failed at this, but at least he'd try to be artsy. What a pedestrian event. Professional fan fiction. And indeed Morrison did his version a few years back, with the Multiversity event overall and the Pax Americana issue in particular. Mainly what DC understands is that (1) they wanted to do another reboot, and (2) their audience likes the Watchmen brand. Achieving creative parity with the original Watchmen was never feasible and never a goal here. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Mar 13, 2020 6:14:33 GMT -5
Is there any news about the release of a collected edition ?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2020 7:03:32 GMT -5
Is there any news about the release of a collected edition ? The first volume, collecting #1-6, is out. Not sure when volume 2 will be out, but DC tends to have more of a lag between the completion of a series and it's release in trade than Marvel does (but does a better job of keeping things in print once released). I am sure at some point a deluxe edition collecting 1-12 all in one will be available, but not until the sales window for volume 2 closes. -M |
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Post by Icctrombone on Mar 13, 2020 8:09:39 GMT -5
I was looking at eBay for the set and it was 69 dollars and up.
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Post by lordyam on Mar 15, 2020 2:33:04 GMT -5
Would love to know the ages of the readers who were not offended at the audacity of Doomsday Clock. Are there no real Alan Moore fans left? Reading Issue 1 now...from a friend...what a huge drop off in writing and artwork compared to 1986. Pale imitation. Moore was at another level at all levels, from politics to structure to symbolism. Johns, one of the most in-demand modern writers is...ordinary here. His politics are not subtle or ironic. Gary Frank's pencils seemed more crisp when he was on the Hulk and Supergirl. No attempt to create a deep level like Gibbons. A sequel which should have never been made. Moore was right about this...anyone who bought it is part of the problem. DC simply does not understand Watchmen, besides being a cash grab of course, linking to DC main. Even Morrison would have failed at this, but at least he'd try to be artsy. What a pedestrian event. Professional fan fiction. Heartily disagree but to each their own. Johns does actually have a lot of clever twists and turns in the writing and he DOES have an understanding of the themes Watchmen is trying to say. Issue 10 in particular is great and Issue 12 is also good. Alan Moore wasn't subtle either when you get down to it. Still isn't. And given how incredibly flawed Ozy's plan is (personally I think Johns was being charitable having it last 7 years) the door was always left open for a sequel regardless of what Moore himself felt. Heck I'll come out and say it. Alan Moore's a skilled writer but he's NOT god and he has his fair share of flaws and crap writing (having HP Lovecraft's mom be raped by a demon, or having harry potters piss lightning after performing a school shooting at hogwarts). This "oh anyone who likes it must be a child or an idiot" is just plain condescending. Is Doomsday Clock as good? No. But honestly it's not bad. If Watchmen is a 10 (I don't agree but that's fine) DC is a 7-8. Issues 10 and 12 alone are some of the best I've read period. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jul 26, 2020 19:32:25 GMT -5
So I got Doomsday Clock Volume Two from the library, and I was trying to read a chapter every night but it took me nine or ten days because it started out OK but it was HARD to read a whole chapter before going to bed as it got closer to the end. Yeah, I wasn't all that impressed. I read the first six or seven issues one at a time, and I liked an awful lot of what I was reading. The new Rohrschach. A nice role for Mothman. The new characters Mime and Marionette. Some nice art! And then I got kind of busy and forgot about it. I decided to see if Volume I had ever shown up at the library so I could read it again and VOILA! Volume Two is now available! I liked it at first. But it just got too ridiculously contrived, and a lot of characters - Adrian, Jon, Eddie, Imra, the Joker - are so off-model that I can't even begin to follow their motives. I did really like the scene where all the super-heroes are traveling to Mars to fight Doctor Manhattan. It was just one cool panel after another of each little group, and it was nice to see so many of my favorites looking all grim and penvive. I especially liked seeing Rita Farr with the Doom Patrol! There's a lot to like in Doomsday Clock, but the good moments are fewer and farther-between the further you get into it. And it's just a mess by the end. I would probably give it a 6 out of 10. Between the art and a lot of nice moments early on, it's worthwhile for comic-book readers with low expectations who like to keep up with the big events. |
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