|
Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2019 14:17:30 GMT -5
Coliseum Video did scrape the bottom of the barrel at times, e.g. videotapes featuring superstar entrances or the Funniest Moments tape where Mike McGuirk and the Gobbledy Gooker danced around for 8-9 minutes during one segment. And I don't know how many times they had to present Hogan/Andre (the WM III) match.
Perhaps a 'selling point' of this tape was the superstars giving you game-playing advice. I guess in the pre-internet age, some fans would have lapped it up. Had it been available in the UK, it would not have interested me.
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Nov 6, 2019 15:47:59 GMT -5
Coliseum Video did scrape the bottom of the barrel at times, e.g. videotapes featuring superstar entrances or the Funniest Moments tape where Mike McGuirk and the Gobbledy Gooker danced around for 8-9 minutes during one segment. And I don't know how many times they had to present Hogan/Andre (the WM III) match. Perhaps a 'selling point' of this tape was the superstars giving you game-playing advice. I guess in the pre-internet age, some fans would have lapped it up. Had it been available in the UK, it would not have interested me. Yo, brotha, press Down-Down- A-B-Left-A-Right-A-B! Move to the left of screen and press the book and you will be the best there is, the best there was, and the best there'll ever be! Press restart, you ham & egger!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2019 16:09:00 GMT -5
I loved WWF video games as it gave me the opportunity to do dream matches. For one game (can't recall which), I think I had Hogan and the Undertaker take on Bret Hart and the Narcissist Lex Luger. Weird sight seeing Hulkster and 'Taker walk to the ring. Of course, they had very basic controls back then.
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Nov 6, 2019 17:37:48 GMT -5
Interesting podcast interview with NWA Vice President Dave Lagana, who directs and edits the Ten Pounds of Gold series and the NWA Powerrr show.
This is after the first episode appeared and the day the second was set to premiere. Lots of behind-the-scenes, the thinking process, the intent, and a general sense why it is succeeding. He talks about recapturing the emotion and excitement you felt when you first saw pro wrestling or that first performer captured your imagination. It mentions the reality, that they cannot financially sustain this with just Youtube; but, they have had conversations about partnerships with other groups, including the WWE. They have partnered with ROH and pulled apart tpo kind of reset; but, with an open door to return. So, the future could be that Japanese super card programming, with reps from multiple promotions, or title vs title matches. We could see something like a World Series or Super Bowl type thing, if this really takes off. I could see them working with AEW, given the relationships established through ROH and with All In.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2019 17:39:40 GMT -5
I shall watch that now, thank you. Working with the WWF? Hmm, would seem like an odd mix as WWF has such a unique way of doing things, I can't imagine they'd be an ideal partner for anyone in today's climate (I realise they have worked with other promotions before, e.g. Japan, ECW in the late 90s, etc).
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Nov 6, 2019 18:06:58 GMT -5
I shall watch that now, thank you. Working with the WWF? Hmm, would seem like an odd mix as WWF has such a unique way of doing things, I can't imagine they'd be an ideal partner for anyone in today's climate (I realise they have worked with other promotions before, e.g. Japan, ECW in the late 90s, etc). Well, the future of the WWE is Triple H and Stephanie. Trips has experience on the indie scene and at a rival promotion that did things differently (sadly, in their lesser years). NXT has shown that he is willing to take a page from the past and that he has a passion for that other material and history. He is credited with getting Bruno to accept the offer to be inducted into the Hall of Fame and come to a peace agreement with Vince. So, I think he could relate to what the NWA is doing and Billy Corgan specifically. Also, one asset the NWA has, that other promotions do not, is that Billy Corgan is a mainstream celebrity and the WWE has always sought that cache, from Cindy Lauper, to William Perry, to Lawrence Taylor, to Mike Tyson, Mickey Rourke, the the GLOW cast. Billy Corgan has a big fanbase and a mainstream name, which turned a lot of eyes to the NWA. His passion and his relationships gave those eyes something worth seeing. So, I wouldn't be surprised if he could really make things happen that would have never occurred under corporate, Monday Night Wars wrestling. Historically, there is a precedent, in Japan. In the beginning, there was the Japanese Wrestling Association, with star Rikidozan, who ran things. They were backed by the major tv network. He became a national hero through pro wrestling, after a decent sumo career. Battles with Lou Thesz, the Destroyer and Freddie Blassie made him a legend. He developed a pair of proteges; ex-baseball player Shoei Baba and ex-track athlete Kanji Inoki. Baba became Giant Baba, the next generation star, behind Rikidozan, while Inoki became Antonio Inoki, Baba's tag partner and second (which itched at Inoki's craw)/ Rikidozan is stabbed by a yakuza and dies of blood poisoning and the JWA is rocked by scandal. They regroup with Baba as the star. Inoki tries to break away to help start a new rival, which fails, and comes back. He eventually finds backers. The JWA splits into All Japan Wrestling, with Baba as the star and shareholder, with a tv backing, and New Japan Pro Wrestling, with Inoki the star and promoter, with rival tv backing. meanwhile, there was a second promotion, in the IWE, which had relationships in Mexico, Canada and the AWA. Baba retained the JWA's affiliation with the NWA. Inoki formed alliances with the WWWF and some NWA promoters. They spend their time as rivals, working separately. There are talent swaps, which were negotiated, then in the 80s, there were some surprise changes. New promotions, like the various versions of the UWF started, and some stars went off to headline other groups (like Tenryu, who headed Super World Sports, then WAR). In the 90s, the Japanese promotions began to cross promote super cards, at places liek the Tokyo Dome and some of the baseball stadiums. Each put on its biggest stars. There were even reps from the IWA and FMW, who did garbage wrestling (which was hot, then). Then, they started to have matches across company lines, mixing an All-Japan wrestler against a New Japan wrestler. Then, Baba died and his company went into turmoil. The majority left and founded Pro Wrestling Noah. Great Muta crossed over to become a star and head of All-Japan. He held both the IWGP and Triple Crown titles. New Japan brokered the J-Crown tournament (though with mostly defunct belts, of ones that had been pushed down the card), with involvement from New Japan, WAR, Michinoku Pro, and some indies and Mexico (for the NWA and WWA belts, though not with their wrestlers who were not already working in New Japan). There is a lot of possibility out there. nothing may come of it and the NWA may be building on its own; but, I do suspect they will partner with other groups; maybe the WWE, maybe AEW, maybe ROH or Impact (that is probably a bit less likely, given the legal history there; but, never say never, in wrestling). The NWA could be a neutral umbrella for AEW and the WWE to cooperate, while still competing. Before Vince Jr was in control. Vince Sr was an NWA member. He took part in title vs title matches (Backlund vs Flair, in Atlanta, Harley vs Superstar Graham) and the NWA and AWA cooperated and had a few (Flair vs Martel, Bockwinkel vs Race) and co-promoted Pro Wrestling USA, before egos and dirty dealing made it collapse into pretty much another AWA show. If you watch the Ed Asner film, The Wrestler, you see them try to book a Super Bowl show, with WWWF, vs NWA vs AWA, showing NWA World Champion Dory Funk Jr and WWWF Champion Pedro Morales, plus promoters Vince Sr, Frank Dusek (an AWA promoter), Sam Muchnick, and Eddie Graham (Florida NWA) and Verne as AWA champion Mike Bulllard (surprise his ego let it be a fictional name, since everyone else was using their "real" name.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2019 18:22:17 GMT -5
NWA Vice President Dave Lagana Podcast just came to me via email and planning on watching in a day or two.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2019 11:39:15 GMT -5
I rewatched Rob Van Dam VS Jerry Lynn from Hardcore Heaven '99, but with alternate commentary by RVD and Michael Cole.
Interesting fact: RVD mentioned how the ECW rings were bigger than WWF rings. I thought they looked bigger!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2019 15:29:04 GMT -5
Okay, not wrestling, but quite a milestone: The WBA wants to travel the world in 2021 to celebrate its 100th anniversaryI have much respect for the WBA, being the original sanctioning body. The WBC, IBF and WBO came later. But I am not really sure the numerous "alphabet groups" benefit boxing. Even as a kid, it seemed strange that you could have four world champions. I know there have been undisputed champions, of course. I just wish there was one sanctioning body.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2019 16:12:46 GMT -5
I just wish there was one sanctioning body. Ahem! ... brother!
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Nov 7, 2019 22:55:11 GMT -5
Part of the reason there is more than one is the same reason we ended up with multiple wrestling world titles: greed and corruption. Dirty business in boxing goes way back and continues today, via who gets title shots and who doesn't. Then there are gambling interest, other mob interests (arenas and such), crooked promoters/managers, etc, etc. Pro wrestler "Big Juice" Jeff Warner admitted to taking a dive for former NY Jets player Mark Gastineau, in a sanctioned pro fight. People called wrestling fixed! Wrestling was at least relatively honest about their fix.
Back when I was young, The WBA and WBC titles were often held by the same champion, though things like Ali converting to the Nation of Islam and refusing the draft led to different sanctions by the WBA and WBC.
WBA is the oldest, related to the National Boxing Association, which started up to offset the power of the New York State Athletic Commission, which held great power in boxing and wrestling. It changed into the WBA in the early 60s, which is when the WBC arose, which had more of an international connection, with several member countries. The IBF started up in the 80s, after a failed bid to become president of the WBA. It grew out of the USBA, which sanctioned regional titles. It was also notoriously corrupt and unimportant, until Larry Holmes was recognized as their champ. The WBO arose at the end of the 80s, after another political dispute in the WBA. When it comes to the Heavyweight Championship, the WBA and the WBC are the main deals. WBO is more recognized for lighter weight divisions, with wider international bouts for those titles, especially in Latin America.
It's the same thing as wrestling. In the 20s, the New York State Athletic Commission recognized their world champion, then the National Wrestling Association rose up, an affiliate of the National Boxing Association. There was then a Midwest combine, which is where Lou Thesz first one the title, in 1937. He won the NWA (Association) title in 1939, and the National Wrestling Alliance was formed in 1948, recognizing Orville brown as the champion. There was a war in St Louis, between Sam Muchnick's NWA and Thesz and his group, with the Association World title. They made peace and merged and Thesz was supposed to have a unification bout with Brown, until he was in a bad car accident. Thesz was recognized as the new NWA World champion, until he got tire of traveling. His match with Edouard Carpentier was done as a disputed finish to set up a return of title vs title; but, some disgruntled promoters broke with the NWA and used it to crown new world champions (in Boston, Omaha, and Los Angeles). Verne Gagne bought into Minnesota and it was renamed the AWA, recognizing him as champion. The NW took the title off Rogers, convincing Thesz to come out of retirement to do so, and the WWWF broke away, still recognizing Rogers.
Politics and greed.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 5:46:55 GMT -5
I like sports where there's ONE world title/world champion.
I like football. There's the FIFA World Cup, held every four years. Great footballing nations like Brazil have won it more than once. It would seem odd if we suddenly had 3 breakaway organisations from FIFA - and there were 3 "World Cup" events. How do you even decide which is the most prestigious?
Wrestling may be looked down on by some, but it can be nice to take it semi-seriously. As discussed here previously, I couldn't believe it, in 1993/94, that we had the unwieldy-sounding WCW International World Heavyweight Championship in addition to the WCW World Heavyweight Championship and WCW United States Championship. Talk about redundancy. The likes of Rick Rude brought prestige to the WCW International World Heavyweight Championship (he brought prestige to every title he held), but it didn't feel right.
|
|
|
Post by The Captain on Nov 8, 2019 10:48:39 GMT -5
I rewatched Rob Van Dam VS Jerry Lynn from Hardcore Heaven '99, but with alternate commentary by RVD and Michael Cole. Interesting fact: RVD mentioned how the ECW rings were bigger than WWF rings. I thought they looked bigger! Oh, man, hearing ECW brings back some memories. My best friend and I used to go to their shows when they would be at the Beaver County Community College "Golden Dome" (just north of Pittsburgh). Whenever we did, we would get our seats first row ringside opposite the camera, and we were on TV numerous times. One show, it was RVD against an opponent I unfortunately don't remember. Opponent gets thrown out of the ring and winds up against the barricade right in front of us. RVD goes opposite rope, runs the ring, jumps on the top rope, and launches himself at his opponent. He finishes his spot and comes crashing over the barricade and lands on our chairs, breaking both of them. He looks up, mouths "sorry, guys" at us, then hops up and continues the match. We had to stand the rest of the night because no one would bring out more chairs to replace the broken ones. It was awesome.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 10:57:48 GMT -5
ECW certainly filled a need back in the day, and it's no exaggeration to talk about how influential they were on the WWF and WCW.
The WWF will engage in revisionist history at times. But the truth is that while ECW was soaring higher and higher, the WWF had the likes of T.L. Hopper, The Goon and Who? I'm not criticising the people who performed those roles, but the WWF was behind the curve circa 1994-1996. If not for competition from the likes of WCW and ECW, would we have even had Attitude?
|
|
|
Post by The Captain on Nov 8, 2019 11:19:31 GMT -5
ECW certainly filled a need back in the day, and it's no exaggeration to talk about how influential they were on the WWF and WCW. The WWF will engage in revisionist history at times. But the truth is that while ECW was soaring higher and higher, the WWF had the likes of T.L. Hopper, The Goon and Who? I'm not criticising the people who performed those roles, but the WWF was behind the curve circa 1994-1996. If not for competition from the likes of WCW and ECW, would we have even had Attitude? No doubt the competition from the other promotions drove WWF forward into the Attitude era. In the early 1990s, Vince was still in the "gimmicks sell" mindset, because it worked with JYD and The Mountie and Iron Sheikh and others in the 80s, but ECW focused on wrestling (and brawling, and lots of violence) and less on cartooney characters. Look at Triple H. He started out in WWF as Hunter Hearst Helmsley, a blue-blood snob who came to the ring in a robe and acted like a douchebag. Had he continued with that gimmick, he would have been Midcard for Life, but by allowing him to become HHH, he was closer to his true persona and it allowed him to worry less about his "character" and focus more on wrestling and story. Same with Edge and Christian. They debuted as minions of Gangrel, whom I'm sure Vince thought would be a huge star, but folks were over stupid gimmicks like "Goth vampire wannabe" by then. Getting E&C out from under that stifling association and letting them use their own natural charisma to get over, two stars (and arguably one superstar in Edge, before injuries led to an early retirement) were created. Those two had easy chemistry with each other, could work in the ring with almost anybody, and they were funny as hell on the mic.
|
|