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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 12, 2019 20:58:50 GMT -5
Check out the guy on Billy Robinson's left; stylin' and profilin'!
Wooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Texas Outlaws vs Oddjob....
(the bartender is Hardboiled Haggerty, actor & stuntman, who had been a wrestler in the AWA)
Full movie...
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 12, 2019 21:19:38 GMT -5
ps Billy Robinson was pushed hard in the AWA; but, the audience just never quite warmed to him as the top guy. He was a lukewarm promo, which was more important than in Britain and, he had an attitude that made him disliked by a lot of the boys. He was also a bully, who liked to take liberties, in the ring, with guys who didn't know how to defend themselves. I've heard a couple of stories about when he got his comeuppance. One was in the AWA lockerroom, where he was boasting that he could take Verne whenever he wanted and Verme put him in a front facelock and marched him around the lockerroom, for everyone to paddle him. Robinson was trained by Billy Riley, at the Wigan Snake Pit; but, Verne was a two time NCAA champion and alternate to the 1948 Olympic team (did't go because he had wrestled in a carnival show, for money, violating his amateur standing).
The other involved The Rock's grandfather, High Chief Peter Maivia. Don't recall the specifics; but, Robinson either got cute with him or started something outside the ring and Maivia nearly took his eye out. Robinson was a shooter; but, Maivia was an all-'round bad mo-fo (as were most of the Samoan wrestlers, and the two Tongans, Haku/Meng/King Tonga and The Barbarian).
Robinson is wooden as hell in The Wrestler, and when introduced, can be visibly seen to be waiting for his cue.
By the way, Nick Bockwinkel also appeared on an episode of The Monkees and the game show Hollywood Squares.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2019 6:02:51 GMT -5
I'll watch the World Class Championship Wrestling documentary at some point. I know a little bit about the promotion, mainly due to articles in the Apter mags. And I have seen about 10 matches from the card on VHS and DVD. But I know I'll learn something.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 13, 2019 8:41:08 GMT -5
I'll watch the World Class Championship Wrestling documentary at some point. I know a little bit about the promotion, mainly due to articles in the Apter mags. And I have seen about 10 matches from the card on VHS and DVD. But I know I'll learn something. Again, it's decent, if a bit short and cursory. It ignored the fact that Vince wanted to make a deal with them and was big on bring Kerry in, back in '84. There is another documentary out there, History of World Class, that is better. It was a fan-produced thing that talks to a lot of people and goes deeper. Also the Vice tv feature, Dark of the Ring, has an excellent look at the Von Erichs, that goes more into how messed up the boys were, more honestly.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2019 10:49:34 GMT -5
Von Erichs Family when all those sons of Fritz Von Erich committed suicides and all that and I was deeply saddened to learn that he died on (Kerry) February 18th at his Father Ranch in 1993. I have a dear friend at work told me that in the first thing during our morning coffee break and learned that the Texas Tornado had died. My heart sank to a new low and I just in shock to learn that from him. They call it the "Curse" and I just had a hard time accepting it. Anyway, I know that Vince tried get WCCW so he can bring Kerry in and that's one of his better decisions back then and the Texas Tornado became a favorite of mine.
I remember his death just like yesterday.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2019 11:33:52 GMT -5
I've watched the documentary.
It was great to learn of WCCW history. Going by the documentary, and the few matches I've seen over time, it did seem that they were conscious of the need to evolve, unlike, say, the AWA.
I wonder, did they inspire WWF in any way? Or encourage the WWF? They did have a few gimmicks (e.g. Missing Link), there were hardcore matches before the word hardcore was really used in a wrestling context, and although Vince McMahon coined the term "sports entertainment", there appears to have been some sports entertainment going on at WCCW too.
The tragedies are hard to think about. I knew of the tragedies due to various Apter mags and Power Slam covering them at the time, but seeing this documentary has made it all hit home. It's sad to think of these things. For instance, Kerry Von Erich was born in 1960. That would make him 59 if he was alive today. So, nearly 60. Imagine a 60-year-old Kerry reminiscing on a WWF documentary or offering some insight to younger stars.
During his WWF tenure, he came, he saw, he conquered - but disappeared. He appeared at seven PPV events, starting with SummerSlam '90 and ending with Royal Rumble 1992. I believe he left WWF in August 1992. Yet after the Royal Rumble, which aired in January, I don't recall any TV appearances by him. He didn't appear at either WrestleMania VIII or SummerSlam 1992. I saw photos of 1992 matches against the likes of Kato and Rick Martel, but if memory serves me right, and I was watching the syndicated programming regularly at the time, I cannot recall a single TV appearance; if there were any, they must have been few and far between. So for the last 7 months of his WWF tenure, he was practically invisible, bless him.
Oh, and while I enjoyed the USWA (some videotapes, but not many, were released in the UK), it felt like a different organisation from WCCW.
I need to watch more WCCW matches.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2019 12:15:41 GMT -5
Mr. Perfect / Ric Flair Picnic Promo ... My favorite.
Enjoy.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 13, 2019 20:07:49 GMT -5
I've watched the documentary. It was great to learn of WCCW history. Going by the documentary, and the few matches I've seen over time, it did seem that they were conscious of the need to evolve, unlike, say, the AWA. I wonder, did they inspire WWF in any way? Or encourage the WWF? They did have a few gimmicks (e.g. Missing Link), there were hardcore matches before the word hardcore was really used in a wrestling context, and although Vince McMahon coined the term "sports entertainment", there appears to have been some sports entertainment going on at WCCW too. The tragedies are hard to think about. I knew of the tragedies due to various Apter mags and Power Slam covering them at the time, but seeing this documentary has made it all hit home. It's sad to think of these things. For instance, Kerry Von Erich was born in 1960. That would make him 59 if he was alive today. So, nearly 60. Imagine a 60-year-old Kerry reminiscing on a WWF documentary or offering some insight to younger stars. During his WWF tenure, he came, he saw, he conquered - but disappeared. He appeared at seven PPV events, starting with SummerSlam '90 and ending with Royal Rumble 1992. I believe he left WWF in August 1992. Yet after the Royal Rumble, which aired in January, I don't recall any TV appearances by him. He didn't appear at either WrestleMania VIII or SummerSlam 1992. I saw photos of 1992 matches against the likes of Kato and Rick Martel, but if memory serves me right, and I was watching the syndicated programming regularly at the time, I cannot recall a single TV appearance; if there were any, they must have been few and far between. So for the last 7 months of his WWF tenure, he was practically invisible, bless him. Oh, and while I enjoyed the USWA (some videotapes, but not many, were released in the UK), it felt like a different organisation from WCCW. I need to watch more WCCW matches. World Class was groundbreaking in how the presented their tv show. They had cameras right up in the ring, catching the action as close as possible. They used then-stat of the art production facilities, graphics, video packages, you name it. Rather similar to early MTV's presentation of things, with a dynamic style. They probably had the best looking tv, going into it. McMahon copied a lot of the way they presented their tv, if not the style of their matches. Vince was mostly interested in picking up their tv in the Dallas metroplex, as it reached a lot of people, which is why he offered a buyout. When he couldn't make a deal with them, he cut a deal with Houston promoter Paul Boesch. The USWA was, basically, just a rebranded memphis, with two divisions: Memphis and Dallas. The Dallas end was a mess, as the Von Erichs had lost a lot of money and their stars. The family tragedies killed their drawing power, as did their scandals outside the ring, which got to be too public to hide. They sold to Jarrett, who then went down there to egroup. He got it in some semblance of working; but, found the Von Erichs to be a headache to deal with and eventually shut down the Texas end. The vacuum ended up being filled by the Global Wrestling federation, which taped from the Sportatorium and broadcast weekdays, on ESPN. Kerry's time in the WWF involved more drug scandals and he took 2 months off when his marriage collapsed and his wife filed for divorce. He was released around the time of Summerslam, in 1992. He wrestled some indies, including a match in ECW, whee he was supposed to be a surprise, but wore his Yellow Rose ring jacket and everyone knew who it was. It was also in an indie match, against Col. Debeers, where Debeers tried to pull Kerry out of the ring by his foot and his boot came off, with his prosthetic, which had been kept hidden from everyone. The crowd went silent when they saw a stump in a sock. Von Erich rabbed the book and rolled under the ring apron and fixed the boot, then finished the match. Word spread through the newsletter circuit quickly. There were already stories of Kerry showering while wearing his boot, never taking it off, and swimming in it. he supposedly got out of a pool and a ton of water drained out of the boot, which shouldn't have been there. The first issue of the WWF magazine actually featured an article on the Von Erichs and had a picture of Kerry defeating Ric Flair, for the NWA World title, at Texas Stadium. Vince really wanted Kerry, as he was an adonis, who could move and work. It took a few years to get him, when he could no longer wrestle at his best. Still, it was amazing what he could do with that prosthetic, when you look back. When Kerry won the title, he actually scratched his initials into the front plate. (look just above the wrestling figures and you can just see the scratches) In his prime, before the accident, Kerry was amazing to watch. he could hit a standing drop kick like no one else and could move across the ring. He and Flair had tremendous bouts, prior to their title switch, that were way better, including their Christmas bout that started the Freebird-Von Erich feud.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2019 5:51:58 GMT -5
Okay, world titles, right? There's a debate about that - or has been.
I must admit, in the mid-90s, the WCW International World Heavyweight Championship seemed totally redundant given we had the WCW World Heavyweight Championship and the United States Championship. That said, if anyone was going to give WCW International World Heavyweight Championship, it was the likes of Rick Rude. Still, it was redundant.
I remember when one of the Apter mags gave the ECW Championship "world title" status. I think one of the letters pages featured robust views from both sides on this!
On the one hand, a Philadelphia-based organisation having "world title status" for its top title is odd when you examine it from a pedantic perspective.
However, could an argument be made that it was far more deserving than the WCW World Heavyweight Championship at the time? This was the late 90s.
The WCW World Heavyweight Championship wasn't defended at every WCW PPV. It wasn't even defended every 30 days. And Hogan often wrestled in non-title matches, e.g. Uncensored 1995 and Starrcade 1996.
Pedantic geography thoughts aside, what was more deserving of "world title" status in the late 90s? A regional promotion's title that was defended regularly or credibly or a huge promotion's title that often wasn't defended - and was devalued at times?
Just a thought.
Obviously, the likes of the WWF World Championship and WCW World Championship are/were company titles. Hogan was never going to defend the WCW World Heavyweight Championship against the WWF's Shawn Michaels - or come to the UK and defend it against one of our wrestlers. So it could never be a true world title. But I think a case could be made for the ECW World Heavyweight Championship being more prestigious than the WCW World Heavyweight Championship in the late 90s.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2019 6:17:14 GMT -5
Good Points ^^^ Joke Belt Real Belt In my own understanding the belt on the top is a biggest joke of them all. I hate that belt more than anything else in the world. The BIG GOLD BELT on the bottom is more prestigious until Hogan deface it with the Black Letters of NWO on it. That's when I lost all respect for WCW at the height of NWO. I remembered one time that Ron Simmons holding the JOKE belt for a period of time and defended it once or twice and held that belt for some time and that's alone tells me that WCW couldn't find a better person to have that belt. Simmons best chance for a BELT was the UNITED STATES and/or WORLD TELEVISION instead. I'm not a Simmons fan at all. WCW International World Heavyweight ChampionshipThat title in Bold is a Mouthful and that's something that should had not done in the first place. It's made the United States title a joke and this is WCW attempt to create something that RIVAL the Intercontinental Championship Belt that WWF/WWE had all long. I just find that title in bold a joke too and that's causes confusions among fans including me for 5 years until a good friend at work explained the whole thing to me during lunch and that bothers me then and he finally straighten me out and that why WCW dropped the JOKE belt and that belt is totally redundant. Case Closed.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2019 15:25:26 GMT -5
Hulk Hogan Championship Victories
Pretty Cool Clip here.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 14, 2019 23:10:18 GMT -5
When I was young, there were three "world" titles that meant anything: The NWA, the AWA and the WWF. All were defended in matches outside the United States (AWA in Canada and Japan; NWA in Canada, part of the Caribbean, Japan, New Zealand and a few times in Mexico; and the WWF in Canada and Mexico). The NWA was the only international organization, as it had member promoters in Canada, mexico, Japan and New Zealand.
Both the AWA and WWF were company titles, while the NWA was a real association title, as it was defended in multiple territories Before 1980, you had member promotions in Georgia, Florida, the Carolinas, Tennessee, the Gulf Coast, Dallas, St Louis, Chicago, Kansas City, Detroit, Indianapolis, Amarillo, New Mexico, California, Oregon/Washington, Hawaii, Mexico, New Zealand, and Japan. You had the local champions, then the travelling world champion. That meant something. When the NWA World Champion came to town, you wanted to go see him.
The AWA and WWF did get defended in other promotions, from time to time and some promoters booked champions from different groups. In the early 80s, the AWA title was being booked on cards in Memphis and San Antonio, as well as Houston.
When the WWF expanded, Jim Crockett responded by buying out some of his fellow promoters, including Florida and Kansas City. Detroit and Los Angeles went under by the early 80s and Nick Gulas sold of the remains of his Tennessee promotion to Memphis, which had originally broken away from him. Dallas withdrew from the NWA. Mid-South was never a member; but, did book the champion. They eventually rebranded as the UWF, with a Universal Champion, then sold out to Crockett. Indianapolis folded by the late 80s, Amarillo and the Gulf Coast were long gone. You ended up with the NWA being Crockett, The Fullers in Alabama/Pensacola, All-Japan, New Zealand and sort of Hawaii (which was pretty well done by about 1986). The Fullers sold off and Crockett was pretty much it. The World title became the Crockett title, especially after he had a new belt created for Flair. However, Flair was still recognized by the NWA Board, which still owned the trademarks on the name and the title, itself. To win the NWA title, you had to have a vote of the Board, at their annual convention and the new champion had to put up a $25,000 bond (sometimes the promoter did it for the wrestler). Flair was the last one to put up a bond and they didn't bother with it for the switches with Dusty, Garvin and Sting.
When Turner bought Crockett, he also got the NWA World title, with Flair as an employee. However, when things went south with Jim Herd and Flair quit, he took the title with him, as the belt was not the property of WCW or Turner. He told Herd to pay him the $25,000, plus interest and Herd finally just let him walk, with the belt and had a new WCW World Title belt created. By their official lineage, the title was born when Sting beat Flair. The NWA continued to recognize Flair, though it didn't mean anything as New Zealand was the last promotion around, as All-Japan had pulled out of the NWA. Inoki, having lost his relationship with the WWF, became a member, which led, in part to the relationship between WCW and New Japan.
Now, cut ahead a few years. Kip Frey wanted to bring back the NWA titles, as he felt the history added something the WWF didn't have. He made a deal with the NWA Board to revive the title. A tournament was held in Japan, with Masahiro Chono winning. He then dropped the belt to The Great Muta, who then lost it to Barry Windham. Flair had wanted to make Barry champion before he left; but, had problems with Herd and Barry was luke warm on the idea. Now, with Flair back, the idea was to make Barry the NWA champion, then drop it to Fair, who would then unite it with the WCW belt, at some point. He was scheduled to drop it to Rick Rude, after winning it; but, that led to issues with the NWA board and they severed the relationship, which led to them calling it the World title, as recognized by a group of international promoters, referred to as WCW International. Rude won the title, dropped it to Hiroshi Hase, in Japan and regained it, dropped it to Sting, who dropped it to Flair, who, by this point, held the WCW World Title, unifying the two titles. The WCW belt was dropped and Big Gold became the WCW World title belt, until the end.
At the same time, they had a tournament to crown new NWA World Tag-Team Champions (they owned those belts; but, needed the relationship to use the NWA name). Those belts ended up being held by Terry Gordy and Steve Williams, who also held the WCW tag titles, before they dropped any mention of the NWA belts.
After the break up of WCW and the NWA, in 1993, the NWA was pretty much dead. Then, a meeting was held with New Jersey promoter Dennis Coralluzzo, Eastern Championship Wrestling promoter Tod Gordon, Smokey Mountain Wrestling promoter Jim Cornette, Jim crockett, who was attempting to promote in Dallas, and an Australian promoter got together to revive the NWA brand. They set up a tournament to crown a new World champion. Tod Gordon and Paul Heyman convinced them to let ECW host the tournament, since they had the biggest tv exposure. However, Gordon & Heyman had been having conflicts with Coralluzzo, since they were promoting in the same area. Gordon & Heyman decided to pull a swerve. The tournament was booked to have ECW star Shane Douglas win the title. When he was awarded the belt, he proceeded to cut a promo, saying the NWA was dead and buried and thew the belt down and held up the ECW belt and declared it the true world title and rebranded Eastern Championship Wrestling as Extreme Championship Wrestling.
Cornette was allied with Coralluzzo and Crockett and they regrouped and had a new tournament, won by Chris Candido (who wrestled for Cornette and Coralluzzo). Candido would defend the belt in both promotions, then dropped it to Dan Severn, of UFC fame. The NWA became a loose group of indie promotions. Severn would drop the belt in Japan, to Naoya Ogawa, who wrestled for New japan and Inoki. He was then defeated by gary Steele, of the UK based NWA Hammerlock, of the Hammerlock gym. Hammerlock also promoted the Transatlantic Wrestling Challenge, on UK tv, with Gary Steele as their top star, which also featured Chris Champion, as Synn. Steele dropped the belt back to Ogawa, who had moved on to Shinya Hashimoto's new Zero-One promotion.
The NWA became a group of miniscule indie promotions and ever decreasing profile champions, including Mike "Colorado Kid" Rapada, Sabu, Steve Corino, Hashimoto and Severn.
Next, when TNA started up, they were affiliated with the NWA and brokered a deal for exclusive use of the world title. This lasted until 2007, when they ceased their relationship. It was then back to even more fly-by-night promotions, and champions like Adam Pearce, Colt Cabana, Rob Conway, and Hiroshi Tenzan, before Billy Corrigan bought the NWA name and trademarks, with current titleholder Nick Aldis.
For me, the idea of a "world" title ended with WCW. After that, there were just company champions. The NWA belt was defended in Japan, but in smaller and smaller promotions. The luster was long gone. Not sure if Corrigan can really change that, though I will give him points for honoring tradition, which is actually presenting something different than the WWE and AEW.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 0:09:39 GMT -5
That Shawn Douglas clip ... I remembered that well.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 8:01:56 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 8:25:12 GMT -5
Hee Hee ... This is hilarious.
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