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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 24, 2023 14:57:15 GMT -5
Of course, but wasn’t Warlord still being managed by Wippleman at that point? Warlord left the WWF about a fortnight after this event, it’d have made more sense for him to interfere. Shango was just so random. A magazine I once read claimed that there was talk of Hogan returning for SummerSlam ‘92 to face Shango, but since Warrior vs. Shango was also rumoured for that event, I’m not sure how credible the Hogan/Shango rumour was. Really, in that time period, I don't think it mattered who you stuck Hogan with, other than Flair. That was the last real feud anyone wanted to see and Hogan wasn't going to job. The only other thing you could do with Hogan, at that point, is turn him heel; but, I don't think it would work as well as it did (relatively speaking) with the NWO angle. You'd have to really build on the audience dislike of him, at that time, which isn't likely to build your gates. It would need to be a slow turn, to really build the animosity and Hogan's internal anger at the fans. Otherwise, if you just had him come out and turn on Tito Santana, no one is going to buy it and they would probably dump on it as fast as WCW fans did on the Sting heel turn. Personally, I would have been more interested in a heel Hogan, facing the babyfaces, like Tito or Ricky Steamboat. The matches would have been more exciting, from the opponent standpoint, though I doubt Hogan would bump like he would for Inoki. I can see building a turn around a match with Flair, and still let Hogan come out on top. Hogan and Flair have their match and Flair wins via fair means, by out-wrestling Hogan. Hogan accepts the loss, like a babyface (similar to the job to Warrior), then continues on; but, all of the heels start needling him about it, especially Heenan and even Vince brings it up, when it isn't relevant to his current match and Hogan first shrugs it off and changes the subject, then starts to show irritation. Have Flair in a feud with someone like Dibiase, so they can do some real mat work and showcase how good Flair is, when he isn't putting over the babyfaces as much as he did in the NWA. Hogan then starts getting more aggressive in his matches and maybe "accidentally" hurts an opponent, because he was ticked off before the match, by McMahon or Heenan or Gorilla Monsoon. They start harping on that. Hogan apologizes, at first, but then gets more "in your face" about it, with the interviewers (Gene Okerlund would actually be perfect to be the one he starts to lose it with). He hurts another opponent and Okerlund calls him on it and he lays hands on Gene (similar to Don Muraco on Gordon Solie, in Georgia, when Piper turned babyface). He acts horrified at what he had done (maybe he slaps Gene) and he is pushed away, before he can apologize. His next appearance, they really push what happened, maybe have Okerlund fake a broken jaw (which makes Hogan look dangerous), then have an interview with Hogan, where McMahon gets in his face about it. At first, Hogan tries to deflect things, that he got hot under the collar, and McMahon pushes harder, noting the hurt opponents and now a "journalist." Hogan lays hands on him, maybe decks McMahon (who probably would have loved to do it) and then starts cutting a promo how dare he have to answer to McMahon and about how he proved himself time and again and how dare the fans question him. The more he goes, the more the bile starts coming out and he starts in on the fan interactions and having to sign autographs for annoying, snot-nosed brats and having people touching him and the like. Meanwhile, Flair is having a series of matches where he is kept strong, with babyface opponents and maybe even a few heels, where he is winning through skill. The crowd is getting behind him and he is acting more of a tweener and playing the Old Slick Ric stuff, but in the cool manner and not the obnoxious manner. Maybe he starts taking digs at Hogan, as the past. They do a segment where Frank Tunney is there to announce Flair's match for one of the big shows and Hogan interrupts to challenge Flair for a rematch. Tunney stops him, saying they have already signed another opponent and he will have to wait. Hogan's eyes show anger and his body language shows frustration. Flair is announced to face whoever (I can't recall the roster for that era) and then Hogan does a run in on the opponent, during a match on SNME and lays them out, seriously injuring them, to the point they are going to be out for the match against Flair. He confronts Tunney about it and Tunney is about to suspend him. Flair intercedes and demands the match. Actually, now that I think of it, the opponent to make it work would be Ricky Steamboat, though he would be in WCW. However, since this is fantasy, Steamboat returns to the WWF and they start talking about them having been longtime rivals, going back to their days as rookies, training to become wrestlers. To continue the fantasy, Verne Gagne sells Vince the trademarks and video library of the AWA then, rather than later. Vince uses footage of Flair and Steamboat from their rookie days. Maybe they mention them wrestling, down South, without ever mentioning Crockett, the NWA or WCW. They build towards their own Flair vs Steamboat. Hogan attacks and lays out Steamboat. Flair is livid, as he has tremendous respect for Steamboat, gained from countless matches. Tunney is about to do the suspension and Flair demands that he put them in a match together. As part of all this, Heenan starts questioning Flair's motivation and letting him get himself sidetracked with old opponents. Flair won't listen to him and tells him that it is personal and to stay out of it. Heenan concedes. They set up the match, then Hogan pearl harbors Flair, with Heenan's aid and they cut a promo on Flair and how they both hated each other; but, Flair needs to be taught a lesson. Hogan says Heenan knows Flair better than anyone and that inside knowledge will be Flair's downfall. Flair is now pure babyface, with Steamboat in his corner. They have their match and Hogan wins, via heel tactics and interference, and puts a real hurting on Flair. Steamboat goes into the ring and tries to rescue Flair, but his own injuries hamper him and Hogan hurts him, too. Then, Hogan is pure heel. Flair and Steamboat play up their injuries for a while, as Hogan plays nasty, vicious heel. They come back to the angle, with Flair & Steamboat as partners, against Hogan and a partner....maybe Sid, maybe Undertaker (which would be better, as he could have tremendous matches against Flair and/or Steamboat). That leads to a third match, which would have to be Flair going over, unless they did a double-turn, with Flair orchestrating things, ala their WCW turn, in the latter WCW days. That, I think, would be harder to pull off, though, if they had Nick involved, maybe they could play on Hogan's past. Since it is my fantasy, a babyface Flair goes over Hogan, who goes to WCW and flounders there, due to bad booking, and Flair helps attract the better WCW talent to the WWF, while also helping to push the younger generation, like Bret and Shawn to the top. Now, if we really want to get into fantasy booking, I can lay out my idea for a world title unification tournament. To be held in Rio de Janeiro, obviously.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2023 17:04:12 GMT -5
Great fantasy booking, codystarbuck. I always enjoying seeing the “What if?” scenarios people do. Lots of stuff there, that I could have got behind. I liked Flair’s babyface persona when he returned to WCW in 1993, and I wish he’d have done that longer. So, would Hogan vs Flair have been more of a dream match in, say, 1986? If, for whatever reason, Flair had joined the WWF in 1986 (after WM II), would we have seen the build-up to a WM III bout between Hogan and Flair? Of course, there’s no Andre in that scenario, which would be sad. So many “multiverse possibilities” in wrestling…
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2023 17:07:38 GMT -5
Speaking of dream scenarios, I often wondered what if Ultimate Warrior could have passed the torch to Shawn Michaels in 1997. Yes, we have to eliminate Bret from this scenario a tad, but I envisioned Shawn losing the world title to Vader in the summer of 1996. Warrior wins the world title from Vader in late 1996, perhaps at Survior Series. Shawn Michaels then wins the Royal Rumble in 1997.
Warrior VS Shawn takes place at WM XIII. In a true “passing of the torch” moment, Shawn pins Warrior after a hard-fought battle, with one of the biggest stars of the Federation Era passing the torch to Shawn, who would then go on to have some great feuds.
A guy has to dream retrospectively, eh?
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 24, 2023 17:09:54 GMT -5
Great fantasy booking, codystarbuck . I always enjoying seeing the “What if?” scenarios people do. Lots of stuff there, that I could have got behind. I liked Flair’s babyface persona when he returned to WCW in 1993, and I wish he’d have done that longer. So, would Hogan vs Flair have been more of a dream match in, say, 1986? If, for whatever reason, Flair had joined the WWF in 1986 (after WM II), would we have seen the build-up to a WM III bout between Hogan and Flair? Of course, there’s no Andre in that scenario, which would be sad. So many “multiverse possibilities” in wrestling… Definitely, in 1986. Crockett was strong enough in his main areas to keep Vince out or at the fringes and he was nipping at New York heels, at the Meadowlands. in New Jersey, in Philadelphia and Baltimore. All three locations did well for them. Chicago would be the perfect location for a title vs title match, as both companies ran there and the historical importance of the city, to both organizations, as the site of Buddy Rogers winning the NWA World title, in front of 38K+ fans.
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Post by commond on Mar 24, 2023 17:16:38 GMT -5
I was much happier with the Flair vs Savage match and the angle with Elizabeth than I would have been with any Flair/Hogan match. WrestleMania VIII had two great matches in Bret/Piper and Flair/Savage, which back then made it one of the better WWF PPVs to date and one of the stronger WrestleManias overall. There wasn't a strong tradition of WrestleMania main events yet and anything involving Hogan was going to be screwy given the uncertainty over whether it was his last match or not. Fans got to see several Hogan vs. Flair matches in WCW, anyway. The article doesn't mention the fact that Papa Shango missed his cue and was late for the DQ finish, which meant Wippleman had to improvise the crappy finish where he jumped on the apron.
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Post by commond on Mar 24, 2023 17:26:25 GMT -5
Great fantasy booking, codystarbuck . I always enjoying seeing the “What if?” scenarios people do. Lots of stuff there, that I could have got behind. I liked Flair’s babyface persona when he returned to WCW in 1993, and I wish he’d have done that longer. So, would Hogan vs Flair have been more of a dream match in, say, 1986? If, for whatever reason, Flair had joined the WWF in 1986 (after WM II), would we have seen the build-up to a WM III bout between Hogan and Flair? Of course, there’s no Andre in that scenario, which would be sad. So many “multiverse possibilities” in wrestling… Flair's run in the WWF from '91-93 was fun, especially the promos and the interaction with Perfect and Heenan, but he wasn't that well known in the Northeast and the fans that had heard of him weren't that impressed by what they saw. Flair was in his 40s by that stage, and IMO, 1990 was his last year as a truly great worker. They would have needed to build Flair up over time, gotten him over with the Northeast crowds, then had the match with Hogan at WrestleMania 9 or 10, but the situation was more fluid than that type of planning allows. '86 would have seen both guys in their prime, but it would have meant far more if it was held in the South than if it took place in New York.
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 24, 2023 18:39:04 GMT -5
Since I am already there, how about a dream title unification tournament? We'll use Chicago, as the site, rather than Rio, for better realism (and it makes a bit more sense, within this scenario). We can combine the tag titles in Rio.
I envision an 8-man tournament, for some scope, but without getting into the more ridiculous "world" titles, like the WWA in Indianapolis or the Poffo ICW (as much as I would love to throw Randy Savage into the mix). Sadly, I will also be ignoring Jerry Lawler's CWA World title, for those reasons. We need some international flavor, so I will be including Japan, Europe, Mexico and Puerto Rico. Canadian promotions pretty much recognized one of the American titles and Steve Rickard, in New Zealand, was an NWA member. So is Giant Baba, at this point; but, I wanted both All-Japan and New-Japan, due to importance and market.
So, the time frame is 1984. The background is this: Eddie Einhorn, former owner of the IWA and pioneering producer in sports broadcasting, is putting together a national sports network. He develops a partnership with both the USA Network and Turner Broadcasting, thanks to Time, Inc. Time, instead of withdrawing from the partnership that formed the USA Network, from the previous Madison Square Garden Sports Network, instead buys out the other partners, with the aid of Einhorn and Turner. In turn, they buy a stake in Turner Broadcasting, as Turner looks to expand and with Einhorn's influence, via baseball. Their goal is something similar to MLB broadcasting, but with a wider range of sports, including pro wrestling. A rival for ESPN. Einhorn figures that a way to sell pro wrestling, nationally, is to create sort of unified organization, like MLB, but which allows the member promotions to continue to operate in their home areas, while sharing in the national and even international revenue. Einhorn is able to get Vince McMahon to agree, with USA's assistance, while Turner is able to persuade the NWA to come on board, through the Georgia office and the strength of World Championship Wrestling, on WTBS. Einhorn is also able to secure the AWA, through the Chicago connection, since Verne and Bruiser & Snyder promote the city. They, in turn, help recruit the international promotions. The WWF is able to secure participation by New Japan and the UWA, in Mexico, thanks to their previous relationships (the UWA promoted the WWF Lt Heavyweight Championship). All-Japan is secured through the NWA affiliation and Gagne secures Otto Wanz and the Catch Wrestling Association. Puerto Rico is secured via Flair & Crockett, who had worked with Colon. They start out by showcasing matches from each member group, first via tape, then start bringing talent together to shoot love cards. They then announce that they will unify the various world titles into one, with the champion touring each league. They will then have an annual tournament for a trophy, ala the Stanley Cup, World Cup, etc. The cup should bear the name of a major wrestler. Lou Thesz would bring the most credibility, as he was the last "undisputed" world champion (since the Carpentier match was used as a basis for groups like the WWA, in California and the AWA). However, if you wanted a memorial trophy, you could say something like Strangler Lewis or Frank Gotch (since it is kind of hard to call your trophy the Strangler Lewis Memorial Cup). I kind of like the idea of using Gotch and have Thesz involved, in some capacity, as a commissioner or something, presenting the cup and the unified world title belt.
The tournament is set for Chicago, at Komiskey Park, thanks to Einhorn's stake in the White Sox. The titles being unified are:
Catch Wrestling Association World Heavyweight Championship (CWA) World Wrestling Council World Heavyweight Championship (WWC) Universal Wrestling Association World Heavyweight Championship (UWA) Pacific Wrestling Federation World Heavyweight Championship (AJPW) National Wrestling Federation World Heavyweight Championship (NJPW)) World Wrestling Federation World Heavyweight Championship (WWF) American Wrestling Association World Heavyweight Championship (AWA) National Wrestling Alliance World Heavyweight Championship (NWA)
The current title holders are (in my scenario, not actual period):
Tony St Clair (CWA) Dos Caras (UWA) Carlos Colon (WWC) Jumbo Tsuruta (PWF) Antonio Inoki (NWF) Hulk Hogan (WWF) Rick Martel (AWA) Ric Flair (NWA)
I debated El Canek and Dos Caras, but I prefer Dos Caras, in style, and he is a more versatile wrestler. Plus, the association with Einhorn and the IWA, based on brother Mil Mascaras. I also debated Martel, who was champion or Nick Bockwinkel, who would add some gravitas to things, but felt the younger Martel was the way to go. Plus, I always liked Martel's ring work. Colon was a no-brainer as was Inoki, though I did consider Tatsumi Fujinami. Inoki would bring more name recognition. The American champions remain as they were. I picked Tony St Clair because I wasn't going to use Otto Wanz, as it would visually be as ludicrous as it was in the AWA; plus, St Clair was working with the CWA, in that time, as their Middleweight champion and had been the British Heavyweight champion. Plus, he was a damn good wrestler and I wanted a link to the World of Sport, as well.
So, these guys are announced as participants and brackets are set up:
Qualifying Round
Block A Flair vs Colon (NWA vs WWC) Martel vs St Clair (AWA vs CWA)
Block B Inoki vs Tsuruta (NJPW vs AJPW) Hogan vs Caras (WWF vs UWA)
The Qualifying Round presents some interesting match ups and keeps the American title holders away from one another. Colon and Flair have faced each other in Puerto Rico and Martel & St Clair have that international flavor, with St Clair having worked all over, including the US and Japan. Inoki & Tsuruta pits the top wrestlers from the two main Japanese promotions against one another, while Hogan vs Dos Caras allows for a bit of color, between Hogan's size and Dos Caras lucha style and mat ability (he was far more versatile than Mil and more physical). Flair and Colon fight a tough match, with a bit more brawling, but Flair defeats Colon with a Sleeper Hold, after Colon got out of the Figure 4. Martel and St Clair have a tremendous display of scientific wrestling, mixed with some aerial moves, with Martel capitalizing on St Clair making a mistake, when he tosses Martel into the corner, but is slow to move in for a bolo forearm and Martel lifts his legs up and catches St Clair in a Victory Roll, for the pin.
Dos Caras is able to keep Hogan off balance for the first half of their match; but, underestimates his stamina and tries a cross bodyblock, off the ropes and Hogan is able to catch enough of him ro roll with it and toss Caras through the ropes. He gets time to recover and catches Caras coming back in the ring, with a bodyslam, followed by an elbow drop, then a running forearm and the legdrop, for the pin. The Japanese fight steals the show, for the bracket, with a hard fought, see-saw battle between Tsuruta and Inoki. After a series of near falls, Tsuruta surprises Inoki with a Thesz Press, off the ropes, which Inoki escapes, but is able to dive over a prone Inoki, with an Oklahoma Side Roll, into a pin.
Semi-Finals
Block A Flair vs Martel (NWA/WWC vs AWA/CWA)
Block B Hogan vs Tsuruta (WWF/UWA vs PWF/NWF)
At this point, everyone has had similar fights, though Tsuruta's match against Inoki was especially tiring. He outwrestles Hogan; but, Hogan is able to use power moves to take more steam out of Tsuruta. Tsuruta tries to go for pinning combinations, but Hogan uses rope breaks and other opportunities to escape, playing a more conservative game. Tsuruta tries a last, desperate gamble and hits Hogan with a dropkick and then goes to the top rope to try a knee drop. Hogan plays possum and rolls aside and Tsuruta smashes his knee into the mat. Hogan capitalizes and grabs Tsuruta in an Indian Deathlock and Tsuruta tries to hang on and passes out, from the pain and is counted out.
Flair and Martel jockey back and forth and are pretty evenly matched. Both had similar length matches and Flair is being the cagey veteran, while Martel is sticking to the mat. Both have similar stamina and size. Flair snatches a headlock and Martel lifts Flair up and delivers an Atomic Drop, then holds onto Flair and waistlocks him into a back suplex, and bridges up. Flair is still together enough to roll with it and gets his legs over his head and slips his shoulder up at 2 1/2. Martel gets up slowly and moves towards flair, who is in a kneeling position. Flair legdives Martel and takes him down, then lands a couple of shots to the same leg. He then goes in for the Figure 4, but Martel grabs a small package, taking Flair too close to the corner, where he gets a foot on the turnbuckle and shifts his weight over Martel, reversing the pin to Flair's advantage and Flair gets the win.
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 24, 2023 20:08:54 GMT -5
Final Match
Flair vs Hogan (NWA/AWA/CWA/WWC vs WWF/PWF/NWF/UWA)
Hogan has the size advantage and Flair is 4 years older. Flair has 5 years of experience on Hogan and has held a world title on two occasions, at this point, plus defended it around the world. Hogan has only recently become a champion, after failing to cleanly capture the AWA World title, from Nick Bockwinkel, though he had a victory over Inoki, for the IWGP tournament crown. Flair is noted for his cardio and has had numerous long matches, plus experience against a variety of opponents around the world. Flair also trained as a power lifter and is stronger than his size would suggest. Hogan has faced top competition and has an edge in brawling. Hogan will try to dominate Flair with size and strength and maybe trade punches and kicks, to keep Flair off balanced and off the mat. Flair will try to wear down Hogan and maneuver him into a pinning combination or set up a submission.
They start out cautiously, sizing each other out. Hogan wins early tests of strength, but can't capitalize on them, as he recognizes that Flair is trying to sucker him into rushing in and pull him down to the mat. They continue with a series of lock-ups, transitioning into head an armlocks, then escapes, without either gaining a clear advantage. Hogan starts drawing deeper on his training with Hiro Matsuda to counter Flair's attempts at leg dives or takeovers. They lock up again and Hogan snatches a headlock and Flair grabs a waistlock and shows his own strength, lifting Hogan and dropping him in a side suplex, though Hogan is still able to keep cotrol of the headlock and Flair must work his way off his back. Hogan loses his grip, but is able to switch to a shoulder lock, into a full nelson. Flair knows he is in trouble and starts flailing around, then drops down quickly, slipping through Hogan's grip. He kicks Hogan away when he tries to move in and Flair then rolls out of the ring, to regain his breath and stall.
Flair is being counted out and he hops up on the apron and Hogan moves in to break the count. Flair ducks under the rope and hits Hogan with a shoulder block. Hogan has the wind knocked out and Flair hits another, then grabs the back of Hogan's head and drops down to the floor, snapping Hogan's neck across the ring ropes, sending him falling backwards to the mat. Flair slips in a drops a knee on Hogan's forehead, then another. Hogan tries to roll over and get his feet under him and Flair goes in like he is going for a headlock and rakes the eyes. Hogan staggers away, temporarily blinded and Flair leg dives the back of his knee and Hogan goes down. Flair grabs a foot and delivers a knee to Hogan's leg. He starts working it over, with knees and drops to the leg, wearing him down, for the Figure 4. He then goes into the spinning toe hold, to the Figure 4 and locks it in. However, Hogan is large enough that he is near the ropes. He can't quite reach them and, instead, starts to reverse the Figure 4, until Flair is the one in trouble. Flair is able to roll it back, but Hogan is closer to the ropes and reaches out, clutches the mat and drags Flair with him. He has to get his shoulders up after this causes a near fall, for 2. he repeats the action two more times, getting his shoulder up by two, then grabs the rope, for the break.
Hogan is hobbling on his weak leg and Flair tries to take him down with kicks to the leg. Hogan hangs onto the ropes and keeps his feet under him. Flair moves in with a forearm to the head and then a chop across Hogan's chest. Hogan slams a ham-sized fist on Flair's head and he delivers another chop, which leads to another forearm. Flair chops again and gets the same. Flair hits three rapid, powerful chops and then Hogan gets the look in his eye and starts shaking. Flair's eyes bulge and he starts backing down and drops to his knees, pleading. Hogan is shaking his fists and shaking his head up and down. He hits Flair with a boot to the chest and then a pair of stomps. Flair rolls away from them and Hogan comes after him and pushes him into the ropes and slingshots him across. Flair ducks a forearm and hits the opposite ropes, but Hogan catches him coming off and lifts him in a press slam. He turns to all for sides, while Flair pleads, then throws Flair across the ring. Hogan crosses over and Falir is on his knees, pleading. When Hogan reaches towards him, Flair grabs Hogan's trunks and pulls him into the corner post, knocking him loopy.
Flair rakes the eyes again, but Hogan does the same. They trade forearms and chops, staggering around. Flair tries the knee again an succeeds in forcing Hogan to one knee, but Hogan pulls him through the ropes to the outside. They proceed to brawl on the floor and Hogan gets the better of the exchange and backdrops Flair onto the floor, when Flair tries to rush him. Hogan is tired and is slow to capitalize, and Flair suckers him closer and clsoer and pulls Hogan shoulder first into the ring post, when he reaches down to grab Flair. Hogan holds his arm and rolls back into the ring, to keep from being counted out. Flair quickly scales the turnbuckles and has one foot on the top rope, when Hogan rushes him and grabs ahold. Flair shakes his head and Hogan launches Flair across the ring. By this point, they have been going for more than 30 minutes.
Flair staggers to his feet and Hogan surprises Flair with a dropkick and the crowd goes insane. Hogan picks up Flair and tosses him into the ropes and catches him with the running forearm, dropping Flair to the mat. Hogan then goes into the ropes and goes up for the leg drop and comes crashing down.....
...and misses, as Flair rolls out of the way. Hogan is still in control and picks up Flair for a high body slam. he tries to cover, but Flair kicks out at 2 1/2. They stagger to their feet, Hogan still in control and he delivers a forearm smash to the back , then another and Flair drops to the mat. Hogan tries to roll him over for a pin and Flair pokes him in the eye. Hogan tries to clear his vision and Flair escapes to the corner. As Hogan shakes his head, Flair comes running at him and tries to hit him with a knee, but Hogan pulls away in time and pulls Flair off his feet. they both stagger to their knees and start trading punches and chops, just slugging away, as we are at the 45 minute mark. Flair's cardio is working in his favor, as Hogan is winded, but he is digging into reserves. Neither man is able to gain a real advantage, until Hogan gets a shoulder into Flair's midsection, from a kneeling position. He grabs Flair in a front facelock and transitions into a vertical suplex, sending Flair crashing to the mat. He then moves in an d reaches down, to grab Flair's head and Flair rolls him up in a small package, but Hogan kicks out. Flair tries for a backdrop, but Hogan is too powerful and pulls Flair to him, struggling to stand and turn it into a sort of back breaker. Flair flails around and Hogan loses his balance and the fall into the ropes, with Flair falling through and Hogan landing on the bottom rope and apron. Hogan goes out after and Flair slide back inside, gets to his feet and rushes to the ropes and springs off, he slides a boot into Hogan's face as he reaches up for the rope. Hogan is knocked back, but not down. He staggers back to the ropes and catches Flair by the ankles and pulls his feet from under him and drags him under the ropes. He delivers a couple of shots and then slams Flair, then climbs back through the ropes.
Flair gets to the apron and Hogan catches him. He brings him up to suplex him back into the ring, but Flair shifts his weight over and drops behind Hogan. He pushes him into the ropes and tries for an O'Conner Roll-Up, but Hogan is able to power him off, at 2, sending Flair face down on the mat. Flair gets to his knees as Hogan approaches and grabs his head. He tries to hit Flair with another forearm, but he ducks it and Hogan spins around and Flair gets his back and quickly drops Hogan into a back suplex. Flair cradles Hogan's feet and when the ref drops to count, puts his feet on the turnbuckle for extra leverage. Hogan is able to wiggle and grab a rope and the ref breaks up the pinning attempt, just before he was about to count 3.
Flair tries to go for the leg again and Hogan blocks him. They brawl and the timekeeper announces 5 minutes left in the match. They are in the corner and Hogan misses a forearm smash and hits the turnbuckle, as Flair ducks. He snatches Hogan's ankles and drops him to the mat and again does a cradle, with his feet pressed on the turnbuckles. The ref can't see it and counts 3. Flair's hand is raised in victory, as Hogan protests. The ref mimes counting three as he and Hogan argue. Thesz who is sitting at ringside talks to the referee and points at the turnbuckle and says Flair had his feet on it. The ref pulls out a small book and flips to a certain page and shows it to Thesz then points back at the corner then again mimes the three-count and shakes his head. Thesz looks at the book , nods and then shows it to Hogan. Hogan shakes his head no, but Thesz says yes. He picks up the new Unified World title belt from the ringside table and enters the ring. He explains to the ring announcer who then gives the decision. Under the international rules, the referee can only call what he sees and only the referee can call for a disqualification or count a pinfall, unless incapacitated. The falls stands and Flair is declared the winner. Thesz presents him with the new belt. he then takes the microphone and announces that due to circumstances of how Flair got the pinfall, there will be a rematch, for the title, in one month's time. A second referee will be stationed outside the ring and will be empowered to restart the match if he witnesses a violation of the rules, missed by the inside ring referee. Hogan smiles, grabs the microphone and cuts a promo on Flair, telling him to enjoy the title, because in 30 days, it will be around Hogan's waist. He pats the fron plate of the belt, for emphasis, as Flair starts to get agitated. He turns his back to Flair and starts to step through the ropes and Flair rushes him and starts attacking Hogan. Hogan shakes it off and Flair drops to his knees. Hogan starts moving towards him, and Flair quickly rolls out of the ring and moves quickly towards the locker room, as the crowd jeers at him. Hogan points at him and Flair points back, as he is pushed to the back by officials. Hogan then starts posing for the crowd and doing the earcup. The announcers start hyping the return bout, but note that anything can happen in 30 days and Flair still has a pair of title defenses before that, that were already stipulated, in the schedule; one in Hawaii and one in Tokyo.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Mar 24, 2023 21:18:31 GMT -5
I think if you do that Lawler has to run in at some point to complain about not being included (maybe even with Savage in tow) Fun stuff though... this is why I like Champions of the Galaxy/Legends.. you can do that stuff
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 24, 2023 23:32:10 GMT -5
I think if you do that Lawler has to run in at some point to complain about not being included (maybe even with Savage in tow) Fun stuff though... this is why I like Champions of the Galaxy/Legends.. you can do that stuff After they have established the title, so Lawler can have a program. The way I see it, you have a national tv program, like Pro Wrestling USA, showcasing people from all of the leagues, plus the top title defenses. You still maintain the local flavor in the home promotions. I would still expect the weak promotions, like Detroit and Nashville to go away, but the strong ones to continue, especially with talent trades; though I see maybe a merging of them into what Crockett sort of became. Basically, there is a single NWA promotion, by the end, covering their traditional areas, the AWA in their areas, and the WWF in theirs, plus Toronto. I kind of see Montreal remaining a free city, while Stampede pretty much goes the way it did. Maybe a separate unified Canadian league or a split between Montreal and Western Canada and Toronto and Eastern Canada. I don't see Mexico as a major player in this, though I do see more involvement in the 90s, as AAA and the new generations CMLL come to prominence and the junior heavyweight division gets more development, mixing Japan, the US and Mexico. Japan mostly enters with big events, from Japan and tours by some of their stars, with the US promotion, plus continued seasoning for young boys. Same for the CWA which will also help the British wrestlers move into new areas, like Japan and the US. The obvious problem is you have to look at it more as a sports promotion model and not as much a touring entertainment company. Even then, you would probably have a lot of court intrigues, with factions vying for control. Part of my reasoning for using Einhorn was involved in some alternative leagues, as well as broadcasting established sports leagues. He was involved in both the WFL and USFL football leagues, as well as the IWA wrestling promotion. As for the tournament, I chose Flair to win, because I preferred his style; but, as you can see, I tried to make it competitive, showcasing the Hogan who wrestled in Japan, vs what he did in the WWF. Still, the stage is set for him to challenge for the title again, though Flair isn't likely to make it easy for him. You also have guys like Nick Bockwinkel and Bobby Heenan eyeing the title, not to mention the Von Erichs, Dusty Rhodes, Ted Dibiase, Paul Orndorff, Roddy Piper, Ricky Steamboat, and Jerry Lawler, who wasn't invited to participate. Then, there is a wild card, with Randy Savage, who can see something bigger than just a battle over the I-64 corridor. There is a young generation coming up, like Curt Hennig, Scott Hall, Shawn Michaels, the Calgary contingent, some rookie talent in Japan. Plus, the world of tag-teams would just start to heat up. Imagine a world where The Rock N Roll Express and Midnight Express are also facing the British Bulldogs, the Hart Foundation, the Road Warriors, the Freebirds, the Fantastics, the Rougeaus, Blair & Brunzel, the Can-Am Connection, Windham & Rotunda, the Dream Team, Demolition, the Powers of Pain, the Samoan SWAT team, etc. The other question, though, would it last beyond the 80s and would the same wrestling boom have developed with a more sports-oriented presentation? More than likely, not; but, might they have transformed into more of an entertainment style, if Hogan defeats Flair for the title. At the same time, perhaps the national show's success pushes the three main leagues into adopting elements of their rivals, while maintaining their unique flavor. Ultimately, strip away the artifice and it will collapse in rivalry, and ultimately fail. But, that's why they call it fantasy. Cooperation between greedy crooks is as big a fantasy as dragons and elves.
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Post by Ricky Jackson on Mar 25, 2023 0:26:41 GMT -5
Hogan in Japan is the cliche for "good worker" Hogan (although I would argue that Hogan was a good worker everywhere until 1990 or so) but Hogan vs Bob Backlund from Philly in 1980 showcases his working ability as well as any match
The rematch is pretty good too
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2023 7:01:17 GMT -5
Read your fantasy booking over breakfast, codystarbuck . Great job. Love the detail. When I do fantasy booking, I can’t do the detail like you (because I’m not talented enough), but I am very glad you did. I almost choked on my toast, though, when you mentioned greedy crooks being as much fantasy as elves and dragons. You’re so right! Only thing I disagreed with was the Chicago setting. Surely, Battle Creek, Michigan would have been better (I am certain everyone here will get that “joke”)…
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Post by commond on Mar 25, 2023 18:02:01 GMT -5
One of the discoveries folks made when they took a closer look at 80s WWF matches is that Hogan had a number of fun matches on the house show circuit to the point where if someone said to me, "Hey, you should check out this Hogan vs. Kamala match from '87," I wouldn't hesitate to give it a watch. Yeah, it was formulaic, but name me a wrestler who wasn't. Hogan in Japan is a bit overstated. It's a surprise the first time you see it, but if you watch enough of his matches, you realize it's the same holds each time. It's admirable, but it's clearly a sequence he learnt to get by. Of course, according to Hogan, "those guys in Japan will break your arm, brutha!"
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2023 18:29:38 GMT -5
For me, formulaic is a much maligned word (not saying that about anyone here). Bond films can be formulaic, but I wanted to see the gadgets, larger-than-life villains, the meetings with Q and M, etc, etc. Sometimes a departure from the formula worked for me Licence to Kill for instance - but most of the time, I wanted the formula.
Same with something like The A-Team. There were occasional departures from the formula (and season 5 changed quite a few things), but most of the time I wanted to see the A-Team battling villains, assembling armoured vehicles, etc.
Hogan was the one that got me interested in the WWF after watching British wrestling on World of Sport. I quite liked the formula of Hogan slaying the monsters, the superhuman comeback, the legdrop, etc. It was a comfortable formula for me.
Most wrestlers probably are formulaic. At times, it felt like Bret Hart would claim he wasn’t, but even he had some signature moves he’d used for a comeback - or him hitting the turnbuckle chest first. I like Flair, but he had a lot of things he’d do in each match, no matter the opponent. And I liked it all.
Perhaps some wrestlers were more unpredictable than others. Personally, I felt that Rick Rude and Vader would often wrestle in an unpredictable manner, but I’m certain that even they had a formula here or there.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2023 18:33:59 GMT -5
Incidentally, look at this pic: This one did the rounds in various magazines, it was a cage match that Piper had with Flair in 1992. But I never found out the story behind Piper holding the WWF World Heavyweight Championship. Of course, Piper never won the WWF Championship, but he’s holding the belt there. The most logical guesses are a) he won the belt for 2 minutes, but the decision was reversed, or b) he simply grabbed the world title to stick it to Flair, either before or after the match. I just don’t know for sure. I don’t think the match was televised.
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