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Post by codystarbuck on Nov 25, 2020 7:07:54 GMT -5
WRESTLETALK MAGAZINE reported on a promotion called GCW (Game Changer Wrestling), based in New Jersey. Apparently, they have an invisible man who wrestles on their cards! This I have to see. There was also mention made of their Blood Sport events whose matches take place in a ring devoid of ropes. This I will also have to see. Just don't bring the subject up around Jim Cornette; he's not a fan. Nothing will ever beat Colin "Bomber" Harris, in that department...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2020 12:28:18 GMT -5
Third issue of INSIDE THE ROPES is out: Some great features in this, including a review of a 1995 NJPW video game for the PlayStation. Also out is WRESTLETALK MAGAZINE: I will discuss several topics pertaining to the features inside the magazine. The one on wrestling unionisation is an interesting one, so look out for any comments I may make about that!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2020 13:02:11 GMT -5
When did Jericho become a headliner fighting for the top belt? I remember him being in WCW and being fine, but then the next I saw he was The Man in WWE. Was he immediately pushed as a headliner,or was there more build up I don't remember?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2020 14:07:39 GMT -5
I’d read that there was at least talk of him progressing to main events in WCW, possibly against Goldberg. But as we all know, talk about pushing such wrestlers would always play second fiddle to the whims and needs of people who didn’t want to give up their spots, e.g. Hulk Hogan. During the Monday Night Wars, I don’t think a day went by without a newsletter/magazine talking about plans to push this or that wrestler. But their priority appeared to be Hogan - and everything that revolved around him (and I say that as a fan of Hogan).
He did butt heads with the Rock when he debuted in the WWF - and they definitely pushed him to the moon (almost). By 2001, he was headlining, most notably at VENGEANCE in late 2001. Prior to that, he had held the Intercontinental Title.
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Post by codystarbuck on Nov 25, 2020 19:09:25 GMT -5
When did Jericho become a headliner fighting for the top belt? I remember him being in WCW and being fine, but then the next I saw he was The Man in WWE. Was he immediately pushed as a headliner,or was there more build up I don't remember? It was a slow build in the WWE. He was never gonna be allowed to main event in WCW, with guys like Biischoff and Nash calling the shots (or the fiasco of Russo). He got a pretty strong debut, with the Y2J countdown buildup to his actual debut appearance; but, he was immediately buried by the Rock, in a promo war. It became clear that he was not going to be pushed above mid-card, until he had proven himself under WWE booking. He was kept at mid-card level for about a year, then put into the mix at main event level, winning the WWE title from HHH. When they decided to created an undisputed champion for both RAW and Smackdown, he was the guy who won it. That run did so-so business. He left for a year or two, around 2005, but, when he came back the pushed him harder and he had matured into more of a veteran. When AEW started up, he was about the only real veteran talent they had (Cody is still pretty young in the business, even with the pedigree), aside from Dustin; but, Dustin was never really a main event guy (upper midcard, but not the top). The rest are pretty much rookies, ROH guys the WWE didn't want, So. Cal indy guys and some Japanese contacts of Omega and the Young Bucks. Despite the hype the show gives you, Omega was not a big deal in New Japan and was not considered a top gaijin. He was at Deep; but that is like being the best actor in a high school play. The Bucks were mid-card Japan guys and little more, and nothing but midcard ROH and indy in the US. Jericho and Cody have been the guys primarily booking the main event stuff for AEW, which is about the only thing I have heard getting real praise (I can't stand to watch their show, as there is no storytelling, that I can perceive). Jericho was usually praised by even Cornette, though, he has gotten some criticism for commentary he has provided on recent shows. I always liked Jericho's work; but, he could be rather sloppy, which didn't help him in WCW and that, plus a bit of an ego problem hurt him when he came into the WWE. Once he matured a bit, he settled in well , there. AEW could really be something, if one vision was controlling the booking, particularly a vision that had an attention span greater than 10 minutes and some real experience. The matches just look sloppy and overly choreographed to me. I admit that I am a grumpy old fart, with wrestling; but, storytelling was such a major factor, until the 2000s; so, for me, that's 30 years of relatively realistic storytelling and action, before it became, "I do my stuff, you do your stuff, then we do 15 near falls and false finishes and kick out of every one, before ending it." Nothing has any meaning. The finishes have no impact because people kick out of them and they repeat the spot again and again. Former finishers are just transition moves. Too many of the moves are over-complicated and require the opponent to stand there and wait, while they jump off of three different ropes and still miss hitting the catcher. If someone botches, they don't know how to improvise and just try the same thing again. Everyone has to rehearse their matches now and can't call a match in the ring, based on crowd response. There is just so much of the art form of pro wrestling that has been lost. With the WWE, everyone is a generic WWE performer and the matches all look the same and the performers all look the same. You can't get a roster with a Mick Foley, a Steve Austin, an Undertaker, the Rock, Bret & Owen Hart, etc...because you don't get those distinctive personalities and working styles. More and more, it looks like Billy Corgan's NWA is all but dead, in fact, if not in name. They were developing well, before Covid derailed their first arena PPV; but, there were already some issues going in, as one of the emerging stars, Ricky Starks, left for greener pastures. They had a good thing going with Nick Aldus and Marty Scurl; but, that is now lost. Also Aldis and Tim Storm for another meeting. Aron Stevens and Josephus/Question mark were hilarious and Trevor Murdoch really looked like he was developing into a Stan Hanson/Terry Gordy-type, for them. On top of the Covid woes, producer Dave Lagana got hit with sexual misconduct allegations, from his past and had to resign. he already had a murky past, after being fired from the WWE for deliberately leaking booking details, despite confidentiality rules in their work. He also had a so-so rep at TNA/Impact and was the editor of their program that was fine with Jim Cornette's alleged racist joke (which was taken way out of context and blown to ridiculous proportions by AEW fans and Twitter hacks who like to stir stuff), yet threw him under a bus, when said hacks raised a stink on Twitter. Ring of Honor pretty well shot itself in the foot when they paid for Cody and the boys to essentially do an audition for Tony Kahn, at the All-In PPV. ROH paid the bills, while Cody and the Bucks promoted it (but without their own money on the line) and then Kahn signed everyone to start his new league and they all walked out on ROH, with one great big F-U. Pretty honorable bunch you have there. Impact isn't taken serious enough by anyone to be anything but a place for people that no one else wants. I don't see another major mainstream wrestling boom on the horizon, certainly not in the next decade, unless a new performer comes along and electrifies people who aren't already watching, like a Rock; but, that also requires a really great showcase for them. I think the WWE is the mostly likely to luck into something like that and have the infrastructure to exploit it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2020 19:56:42 GMT -5
When did Jericho become a headliner fighting for the top belt? I remember him being in WCW and being fine, but then the next I saw he was The Man in WWE. Was he immediately pushed as a headliner,or was there more build up I don't remember?
Jericho was the reason I started watching WWE...he was good-looking and a great heel
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2020 21:14:57 GMT -5
That sucks about ROH. I haven't had the chance to see much, and it was a few years ago (Young Bucks were still there), but I really enjoyed it.
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Post by codystarbuck on Nov 25, 2020 22:01:44 GMT -5
They were trying to rebuild, around Marty Scurll and Villain Enterprises and it looked like they had entered into a sort of partnership with Corgan and the NWA, as other ROH guys were appearing on NWA Power and Aldis and a couple of others were invading ROH, to build the PPV..
it's the same problem Smokey Mountain and ECW had, in the mid-90s. Anybody you develop is going to be cherrypicked by the bigger leagues, as they can throw more money at them to come there. WCW took several guys, including Raven, then wasted them. The WWF took some and elevated them, then secretly paid Paul E a stipend, as compensation and to feed people their way, instead of WCW. Cornette had the same problem, as Jericho wrestled at Inoki's Peace show, which got him the WCW gig, but also got him injured, before Corny's big show in Knoxville, with The Night of Legends. Jericho wrestled the match in a cast and Lance Storm had to carry more of the load. To say Corny was pissed is an understatement.
Like I say, I like Jericho, though he has been acting a bit like an ass, recently (and in his waning days in WWF), which suggests he still has maturity issues. He developed well in the ring from the reckless guy who was working for WAR, in Japan, and CMLL, in Mexico, trying to get to the big time and even in WCW, where he was entertaining, but injury prone, a bit sloppy, and stuck in cruiserweight hell, like everyone else who was carrying the company on their backs. The WWE finally gave those guys a stage to be the stars that WCW couldn't see, for its crowd of WWE castoffs and WCW survivors and sharks. Benoit, Jericho, Eddie, Rey Mysterio...all would find their stage in Vince's ring. Love him or hate him, he knows how to showcase talent.
Now, me, I miss the days of the great tag-team rivalries, of real TEAMS, not just two random guys stuck together by Creative. Midnight Express, Rock N Roll Express, Road Warriors, the Russians, the Fantastics, the Nightmares, the Fabulous Ones, the Rockers, the Steiners, Steamboat & Youngblood, Slaughter & Kernodle, the Freebirds, the Samoan Swat Team, The Eliminators the Hart Foundation, the British Bulldogs...even knock offs, like the Rock N Roll RPMs, the Grapplers/Dirty White Boys (Len Denton & Tony Anthony), Demolition, the Powers of Pain...
I miss the charisma machines, like Dusty Rhodes and Ric Flair, the jock adonis Kery Von Erich, the butt-kicking female favorites, like Magnum TA, the real despicable villains, like Jake Roberts before the drugs started winning, Masked Superstar and Super Destroyer, Nick Bockwinkel and Bobby Heenan talking smack and then Bock working rings around his opponent, Don Muraco busting heads and bumping around the ring, Bob Backlund schooling monsters on wrestling technique, Paul Orndorf plowing through opponents, Randy Savage when he was hungry and not jacked to the gills, Brad Armstrong putting on a wrestling clinic, in the undercard, Bob Orton Jr doing the same, from a working perspective, Lawler & Dundee alternating between being friends and enemies, Hacksaw Dugan and Ted DiBiase battling it out across Oklahoma and Lousiana, JYD hitting the thump, Barry Windham outclassing everyone. I miss the days when you could travel the country and sample different flavors of pro wrestling, like ice cream...when you could see the stars, and the real workhorses, like Hustler Rip rogers, who made the stars look great. I miss the Mulkey Brothers taking an ass whooping from the Road Warriors, in all their pasty white glory! I miss having 3 major leagues, thriving foreign promotions and a legitimate presentation and logical storytelling. I miss guys who could actually wrestle and make you suspend disbelief for 20 minutes or more, every week, or at least entertain you, until the guys who made you want to believe entered the ring.
It may be flashier now; but it doesn't have the soul.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2020 22:17:04 GMT -5
I certainly enjoyed it more in the 80s/90s. Like I said, I liked what I saw of ROH, but that doesn't air here and I can't be bothered to stream if it's not on Roku. WWE is, to me, unwatchable. I think the last match I enjoyed was Shane vs Styles(?) at the Wrestlemania where Reigns beat Undertaker. There have been some interesting characters (I thought The Wyatt Family was kinda interesting), but the matches are just so dull. I tried giving AEW a shot, and while it seemed better in the ring, the other stuff seemed really pitiful, but maybe it's improved.
I'd love NJPW to get a Roku app, because I hear really good things about that (and G1, if that's different).
I loved the Rockers and Demolition so much. And the Ultimate Warrior vs Ravishing Rick Rude (what a name/gimmick!) matches were always highlights for me, just because I loathed Rude and Heenan so much and thought Warrior was the coolest looking person ever. In fact, I think that's what I miss now more than anything, charismatic heels.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2020 7:12:29 GMT -5
Your last paragraph reminds me of the one thing I miss: characters.
I know any form of entertainment has to evolve. Pig farmers and trash collectors wouldn’t work today. Not sure Ultimate Warrior would work in 2020. But I do miss the gimmicks - and the storylines. Big Boss Man was one of my favourites. Loved Demolition and the Powers of Pain. In the 90s, I liked Hakushi, Razor Ramon, etc. Loved the in-ring stuff, but characters were important.
I watched a match recently featuring the Undertaker and Legion of Doom vs. The Mountie & The Beverly Brothers. A purist might mock a match like that, but it told a story. The Mountie and the Beverly Brothers were reluctant to get in the ring with the Undertaker. At one point, one of the LOD tagged Undertaker in. Mountie wouldn’t tag in so one of the Beverlys, on the apron, grabbed Mountie’s hand and forced the tag. This created dissension. It’s things like that I enjoyed.
I enjoyed Bad News Brown abandoning his teammates at two consecutive SURVIVOR SERIES events (1988 and 1989). I can appreciate the in-ring stuff, I liked the focus on wrestling when I watched NWA and USWA events, but as much as I enjoyed Bret Hart taking on Mr. Perfect (1989 or SUMMERSLAM 1991), I did appreciate the cartoony stuff, too. I enjoyed the Undertaker and Kama fighting over the urn.
There are things I like today. I’m sorry Roman Reigns didn’t get to fight Goldberg. I was ecstatic when Drew McIntyre beat Brock Lesnar at WRESTLEMANIA this year. But I do miss the characters. I am not saying Drew McIntyre should be a pig farmer - or Charlotte Flair would be best served as a trash collector or supernatural character. It’s just that almost everyone wrestles under their real names with an enhanced personality. Which can be fine. But at times I wish there was a character. Rick Rude was a character in a certain sense. As was Haku. Or the Warlord. Some (e.g. pretentious newsletter writers) might look down on such gimmicks, but they did provide joy.
And on a final note, I think some of the more pretentious newsletter/magazine editors forget that wrestling can and perhaps should be all-ages entertainment. A purist who writes in to newsletters might not have liked Doink or the Bushwhackers, but there would have been younger fans who enjoyed that.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2020 8:24:14 GMT -5
Characters is probably a better way to put it, yeah. The reason I hated someone like Million Dollar Man, was because he was this rich, entitled prick that looked down on everybody and bought his own belt. Debiase worked to make himself unlikable, so it was someone you wanted to root against. I was glad when Big Boss Man wrestled, because I hated him and wanted to see him lose. Now I just hate Lesnar, because he sucks. There's no character there, it's just this big guy who wants to walk around a ring for a few minutes then slam someone into the mat and go home. It all just feels like a buncha folks rough housing, who, as you said, forgot it can and should be fun.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2020 9:17:06 GMT -5
That’s good. You’re spot on!
I loved how even the WWF Magazine got involved in storylines. I remember a 1994 issue where it was implied Jack Tunney was on DiBiase’s payroll. And I loved the 1990 ROYAL RUMBLE, where DiBiase, entering at number one, eliminated #2 and #3. Jesse Ventura commented, “He’s only got 27 more to go.”
And during that Rumble, so many fun character moments. After Andre the Giant eliminated the Warlord, Fuji got up on the apron to complain, but Bobby Heenan pulled Fuji down. And Tony Schiavone shouted, “It’s every manager for himself right now!” Or something like that. We also had the Earthquake, another character I liked, doing damage during the match, forcing the entire ring (with the exception of Dino Bravo) to form an alliance so that they could get him out. All of these moments stick with me.
The characters enhanced it. I loved the Big Boss Man/Ted DiBiase feud in 1990. I love how it came about, what it led to, etc. It had soul and character.
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Post by codystarbuck on Nov 26, 2020 12:20:53 GMT -5
The Undertaker was a gimmick, the Iron Sheik was a gimmick, Dusty Rhodes was a gimmick; but, it's the performer who makes the gimmick memorable. There was that period in the 90s, when Vince made everyone a gimmick and none of them stuck. Why did the Undertaker work when the Goon didn't, even though Bill Irwin was far more seasoned than Mark Calloway? Because Calloway made it work for him and brought a once-in-a-lifetime talent to it.
In the old days, you might have a gimmick or two, a few flamboyant guys, a monster or two, true blue babyfaces, and one nasty mauler. It was a smorgasboard of talent. You could always find a flavor. Who wants to go to the circus and just see the bareback rider act, again and again? You want the lion tamer, the acrobats, the trapeze artist, the clowns, the dancing elephants, etc.... There is a place for comedy gimmicks, for a change of pace, but they shouldn't be the center of things.
Character is really about persona and personality. Hulk Hogan is a character, Ric Flair, Dusty Rhodes, Stone Cold, the Rock, Jerry Lawler.....it's the guy, with his personality amped up. That shines through even gimmicks. Bill Eadie, as the Masked Superstar, connected with the crowds because his work was snug in the ring, he spoke in a modulated, but serious voice that was in contrast to the guys shouting. He sounded menacing. Jody Hamilton was the same way, as the Assassin (and The Flame, in Pensacola); when all the heels are shouting and raving, and another speaks in a normal, but deadly tone, you listen! Jake Roberts did the same thing. Kevin Sullivan had people believing he was sacrificing goats and virgins to the devil, without ever using the words "Satan," "devil," "Lucifer," or "Mephistopheles." He just talked gibberish, gave a wicked smile, his goons acted weird in the background, Nancy rubbed herself all over him, and then Dusty Rhodes called him "That debil, Kevin Sullivan!" (In pudlick, eef, you weel....).
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Post by codystarbuck on Nov 26, 2020 12:25:01 GMT -5
Bob Ryder, founder of 1wrestling.com and a back stage guy for TNA/Impact was found dead, in his home. Appears to have been cancer related. Ryder had a travel business and was one of the earliest wrestling website presences on the internet, with 1wrestling. That got him hooked up with WCW and, later, with TNA, when it started up. His site was a mass of pop-up adds and shilling; but, he was an important pioneer in the internet wrestling community.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2020 12:25:11 GMT -5
I like the circus analogy.
It is the performer who makes the gimmick. Razor Ramon was far more compelling than the Diamond Studd. And Vinnie Vegas entertained me far more than Oz did. I liked it when he and Diamond Dallas Page would act smooth and team up.
I read (possibly in Flair’s autobiography) that Jim Herd wanted to turn Flair into Spartacus. What?! I mean, Flair was very talented, but you can’t make a pie out of dog shit. When I first started watching JCP/WCW, it was for “The Man” Ric Flair - and not because I wanted to see him become Spartacus.
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