Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Apr 8, 2019 21:23:08 GMT -5
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Apr 9, 2019 7:42:21 GMT -5
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Post by brutalis on Apr 9, 2019 8:13:33 GMT -5
Entertaining discussion gents! Can agree that until the Wheel saga most of the issues were hit and miss with a few gems found here and there. That's kind of the problem when something like Star Wars comes along and becomes such a spectacular hit. Certainly Lucas wasn't paying much attention to the comic as that was never intended to be anything more than part of the original marketing plan like the toy figures were. Considering the times, it is very surprising Marvel held onto the licensing as long as they did and were managing to keep the comic afloat between movies. You totally hit it on the head Confessor about Luke/Leia being mythological stereotypes of the heroic ideals like Robin Hood and Maid Marian. Star Wars in the original movie is far more fantasy with bits of science-fiction tossed in (more as villainous aspects) with the Jedi following the path of the Templar's. I agree also that you have to just read those early Star Wars comics with your mind strongly upon the time and methods of creating comics in the 70's. If you cannot disconnect the movies from the comic then you are never really going to enjoy the comic. The whole 7 Samurai/Magnificent 7, giant green bounty hunter rabbit Jaxon, the water world, star pirate Crimson Jack were all old and tiresome 1950/1960s sci-fi tropes with the Star Wars crew tacked on. It took Goodwin a while to find his voice and understanding of what Lucas was attempting to create in the movies. Once Empire Strikes Back comes out then there is a much stronger concept and world for the comic to delve into. Again, bravo to you both for a fun Pod Cast experience.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Apr 9, 2019 10:06:19 GMT -5
God, I ramble soooooo much! LOL...good editing job, Crimebuster. I love the way that you say at the end of this episode how intensive the editing process is. It's like, we've got a team of 30 audio technicians, some of the world's most powerful computers, and R2-D2 all trying to make the Confessor sound coherent! It works though, my friend; you make me sound like I half have a point and half know what I'm talking about. But only just.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Apr 9, 2019 14:59:08 GMT -5
Oooh. Green bunny talk!
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Post by tarkintino on May 9, 2019 14:05:07 GMT -5
Of course, I wholeheartedly disagree with any of the Infantino criticisms, including the theory that the sales of Marvel's Star Wars never spiked after TESB or ROTJ thanks to people initially being turned off during the Infantino run. That is a theory unsupported by the history of TV and movie adaptations, as the vast majority consistently lost readers as the years (if any ran so long) wore on.
A good case is Charlton's magazine and monthly version of The Six Million Dollar Man TV series; Charlton obtained the rights to adapt the wildly popular TV series in 1975, taking a rather deep dive with two publications, yet despite the TV series being a genuine pop culture phenomenon (with one of the decade's biggest merchandising campaigns) both the monthly comic ended after nine issues, and the magazine with seven. Its important to note that the comics made their debut when the TV series was a hit, and children and teens could not get enough of all things Steve Austin, but that interest (and the faith Charlton had in adapting the property) failed to sustain the comic...
Gold Key's Dark Shadows was based on the legendary gothic horror soap-opera (ABC, 1966-71), with its first issue published in March of 1969, when the show was at the height of its success. Part of that success included hit singles, soundtracks, toys, model kits, role play items, cards, a long running novel series...and series star Jonathan Frid (AKA vampire Barnabas Collins) invited--in character--to a Halloween party at the White House. It was a big deal.
Depending on the resource, the Gold Key title was said to have sold relatively well, but even as the series reached its pop cultural zenith, the comic's early success was fleeting, and like Marvel's Star Wars, the Dark Shadows comic lasted years beyond the run of TV series (its final issue published in 1976), but it never grew in terms of initial reader interest / perceptions of quality.
The central point is that comics based on TV shows or movies tend to work when they merely adapt the filmed production--and not go on and on, milking what is either a limited format by design (e.g., a movie), or simply failing to capture what actors, screenwriters and directors can--literally bringing something to life as we perceive reality (even when dealing with fantasy genres).
I would think Marvel's Star Wars failing to maintain and/or match its 1978 sales--even after the release and subsequent adaptations of TESB & ROTJ--was due to that same failure to maintain or remind audiences of the live source enough, no matter how good some periods of the comic happened to be. Moreover, that 1978 spike is arguably evidence of readers actually enjoying the Infantino period, since they had every opportunity to simply drop the title. Its not as though Marvel hinted that creative teams could change at any moment, and fans were so habitual in their buying habits that they "suffered" through that run (in anticipation of another artist), slapping down one stack of coins after another.
They knew Infantino/Goodwin were there for the then-foreseeable future, and enjoyed their contribution, which--if we're being honest--captured the pure space opera/fantasy feel suggested by the 1977 film more than the post-TESB runs reflected the second movie, which tended to rely too heavily on a single emotional beat from that film, instead of exploring the (arguably) more colorful universe introduced in the original movie.
Yes, TESB changed the game within the Star Wars story, and the Williamson/Palmer/Simonson runs were truly great, but in the end, sales dropping off in comics is due to what is happening "right now"--in other words, what's going on in the books at the point the sales begin to slip. It had nothing to do with an artist and/or creative team that were long gone.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jun 5, 2019 8:54:04 GMT -5
I'm glad to see all the love for Orman Tagge (I pronounce it Tah-GHEE, mysef) and for the intricacy that Goodwin brought to the fledgling Star Wars universe, back when we knew basically nothing about it except from what was in the film and the novelization. Having Great Houses rule over their small fiefdoms was a very good idea: it agreed with the imperial politics mentioned by Tarkin ("the regional governors now have direct control over their territories"), suggesting a delocalization of power and a mafia-like hierarchy, and it was an echo of the situation in the universe of Dune, which clearly instructed several aspects of the Star Wars universe. My personal hope had been that after the end of the empire, the Marvel series would use the Great Houses as the main opponent to the nascent New Republic; after all, why would all these goons give up their power just because the emperor got himself killed? In The Godfather, the mafia didn't instantly collapse when Don Corleone died, after all. (Timothy Zahn did feature a surviving imperial structure, of course, as did Episode VII). But alas, the comic went for the old trope of an alien invasion (and don't get me started on how ridiculous I consider the concept of an invasion occurring at the scale of an entire galaxy. Just how many ships and soldiers can one invading force have at its disposal???) I wonder, Confessor... Who would be your favourite original characters, apart from Valance? I would guess Jaxxon, for obvious reasons, as well as Shira Brie for her absolute awesomeness, but if we were to name, say, ten of them?
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jun 5, 2019 12:17:16 GMT -5
I wonder, Confessor... Who would be your favourite original characters, apart from Valance? I would guess Jaxxon, for obvious reasons, as well as Shira Brie for her absolute awesomeness, but if we were to name, say, ten of them? Drebble would be in my Top 3, I think. Along with Jaxxon (natch!) and, yeah, probably Valance or Shira. Drebble was a great recurring comedy villain initially, but the way things turned out and turned around for him in the end made for a very satisfying, and rather mature, character arc.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jun 5, 2019 12:42:07 GMT -5
I wonder, Confessor ... Who would be your favourite original characters, apart from Valance? I would guess Jaxxon, for obvious reasons, as well as Shira Brie for her absolute awesomeness, but if we were to name, say, ten of them? Drebble would be in my Top 3, I think. Along with Jaxxon (natch!) and, yeah, probably Valance or Shira. Drebble was a great recurring comedy villain initially, but the way things turned out and turned around for him in the end made for a very satisfying, and rather mature, character arc. Drebble? Wasn't he, like, Lando dressed up up as Captain Harlock? (I would now suppose that Lando just used the name of another character so that any trouble he caused would make its way back to the real Drebble. How like Lando!)
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Jun 5, 2019 13:36:33 GMT -5
Drebble would be in my Top 3, I think. Along with Jaxxon (natch!) and, yeah, probably Valance or Shira. Drebble was a great recurring comedy villain initially, but the way things turned out and turned around for him in the end made for a very satisfying, and rather mature, character arc. Drebble? Wasn't he, like, Lando dressed up up as Captain Harlock? (I would now suppose that Lando just used the name of another character so that any trouble he caused would make its way back to the real Drebble. How like Lando!) That's exactly right. But it backfired in an extremely unexpected and great way. Which we discuss at length in an upcoming episode! Sorry it's taking me so long to do all the editing, hopefully this month I'll be able to really dive into episode 3.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jun 5, 2019 17:45:53 GMT -5
Drebble would be in my Top 3, I think. Along with Jaxxon (natch!) and, yeah, probably Valance or Shira. Drebble was a great recurring comedy villain initially, but the way things turned out and turned around for him in the end made for a very satisfying, and rather mature, character arc. Drebble? Wasn't he, like, Lando dressed up up as Captain Harlock? (I would now suppose that Lando just used the name of another character so that any trouble he caused would make its way back to the real Drebble. How like Lando!) Lando was impersonating Drebble when he was dressed like Captain Harlock, principally so that any s**t he caused would come back to haunt the real Drebble, who was Lando's arch nemesis. But as the Crimebuster says, it backfired for Lando with humorous and rather interesting results for the real Drebble.
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Mar 30, 2020 18:09:29 GMT -5
It's been almost a year now since I posted the last episode, but I do still plan to get this edited and start things up again at some point, hopefully sooner rather than later. I am working on moving the raw audio files over to a more powerful computer to help me with the editing process, as the two episodes I have left of my conversation with Confessor have a ton of audio issues from Skype that are making it a real challenge to put together.
Having said that this episode now has 246 downloads, meaning it has just passed the Fantastic Four #1 episode with tolworthy as the most downloaded and listened to episode of the podcast!
Nothing like leaving them wanting more, I guess...
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