Well, it's similar in that Joe Straczynski pitched it to Paramount, who passed on it, then trotted out DS( right when B-5 was filming a pilot for Warner.  Still.....

Trek never fully shook that whole utopian thing that was attached to Next Gen, while B5 pretty much declared that mankind might settle his racial problems on Earth; but, he would have the same problems when he met aliens.  He also didn't settle his problems because of alien contact or technology, as there were still the haves and have nots, still had corrupt politicians, still had corporations where greed overrode good business.  Characters were fallible, aliens had different levels of technology and different political agendas.  Things weren't neatly wrapped up by episode end.  Plot lines dangled for a season or more.

DS9 didn't start as a serial.  It was episodic, at first.  B5 was a saga from conception, though it took time to build the central arc, through a shaky first season.  By the second, it was running on all cylinders.  It's success, in terms of survival and quality of story (especially on a vastly smaler budget) made Paramount sit up and take notice.  DS9 won the US ratings; but, B5 built a very strong UK audience and did well in other parts of the globe.  Warner never gave it the support that Trek got, from Paramount, until it shifted to the TNT Network.

They had a similar basic premise, but vastly different execution.  B5 was on a tight budget, but made great use of virtual sets and CGI effects, with really good quality, while DS9 was still using a lot of model work.  B5 had a richer look to costumes, since most of that department came from the theatrical world.  They used more diverse materials and designed clothing aesthetics for various races.  The same was true of ship and set design, as well as make-up.  Trek had a tendency to use a lot of the same basic appliances with their aliens, while B5 went further out of the box.  Sometimes too far; but, most races were more than a brow and nasal ridge.  Some were quite elaborate, such as Kosh and other Vorlon, or basic, such as the Centauri, or somewhere in between, like the Narn.

Not to say that DS9 was bad; but, I was unable to really get into it when it launched and the characters didn't grab me.  I had heard that it had gotten much better, in later seasons, especially the Dominion War; but, iI was heavily invested in B5 and was not motivated to do the homework on DS9.

One thing that B5 really did better than Trek was maintain a relationship with fans, online.  The Internet was still a pretty new thing; but, Straczynski maintained a presence online, as did the actors.  They encouraged fan sites, as long as they put up proper copyright notices.  Paramount, at the same time, had a somewhat adversarial relationship with fan sites, though they eventually mellowed out about it.  B5 would have online chats, proved commentary on major sites (like The Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5), and just really encouraged involvement, much like Marvel, in the 60s.

B5 just kind of hit my buttons better than Trek, at that point.  I was newly free of the military and it had a very well researched military aspect to things like the Earthforce structure and relationships.  There was a logic to ship designs and battle tactics that was often missing from most cinematic and tv sci-fi.  It also stressed religious beliefs, social mores, media slants, diplomacy, totalitarian governments, erosion of freedoms, taking a stand for principle, sacrificing for the greater good, building alliances, and more.  Plus, it had been mapped out from beginning to end, which allowed characters to evolve and the story to play out in a longer form.  JMS was savvy enough about tv production to know that actors might leave; so, he built in trap doors to remove characters and shift their role, if incomplete, to another actor, who would be an entirely new character.  They had to use it with the series lead and a few supporting characters.  Also, death of a major character was not out of bounds.  It also had tons of great, quotable lines.  It had flaws, like the 5th season, some underdeveloped ideas that kind of got abandoned, some dodgy monsters (mostly in the first 2 seasons) and a somewhat divisive conclusion to the Shadow War.

Definitely worth a look.

I watched Ds9 and it was the more unusual of the ST series in that it involved politics and intrigue instead of adventure. I'm guessing that's what put me off of it. It's pretty terrible that the idea was stolen from Joe Straczynski, I'm surprised that he didn't sue.

I don’t know...

Both series are set on a space station, but that’s all they have in common. DS9 was conceived as just Star Trek without a spaceship, with an episodic nature, while Babylon 5 was a continuing novel from the get go. Even when DS9 went the ongoing storyline route (after several seasons), it was mostly WWII set in space while B5 was always a cosmic Lord of the Rings.

I followed both series religiously, and while I had a slight preference for B5, I never felt there was any plagiarism between them. It’s a bit like when Frank Herbert sued the Star Wars people because he thought they had stolen the idea of an imperial space from him... that’s a bit thin.

It’s quite possible that Paramount lifted the idea of a space station-based SF show from Straczynski, and that’s definitely a crappy (and possibly illegal) move on their part, but in the end the two shows were pretty different and independently enjoyable.

I believe Straczynski eventually eased off on accusing Paramount of deliberately stealing his idea and later chalked it up to unintentional influence, but really, what I understand of B5 is that it takes Trek as a primary influence and just inverts a lot of its assumptions and structure. The idea that Paramount could have arrived at a similar decision on its own is not so wild an assumption, especially after six syndicated seasons of familiar/typical Trek.



That sounds an awful lot like DS9.



One of the disadvantages of being part of an established franchise is that it's very hard to push for change. Trek shows were expected to make most of their money on re-runs, which were often shown out of order. There are developing character arcs and a surprising amount of continuity in play even in DS9's first season, but it took them time to win the right to build sweeping story arcs (perhaps because of what they saw B5 doing). They first really began experimenting with that in season two.



Noted. B5 is definitely visually...different. I find it off-putting, but I'm sure I just need to take time to get adjusted to it.



That's a fair criticism. DS9 is extremely slow to warm. I think I already said this earlier, but I can only enjoy the early seasons now, in hindsight, knowing where it all ends up going. And it's less the war itself that captures my interest, and more the themes and character arcs the war gave them room to explore. I think it's one of the boldest explorations of the psychological and political dimensions of war ever depicted in a major network television series. That so little of that time is devoted to action sequences is a true testament to the amount of maturity DS9 brings to its depiction of war.



It's been on my "to watch" list for ages now. Your endorsement definitely bumps it up the list quite a bit.

I feel the same way. DS9 having more money and more time to tell its story, it could devote entire episodes to the personal effects of war, while B5 was forced to focus on its plot during seasons 3 and 4 as cancellation was always a possibility.

As far as character development goes, both series did a magnificent job. Quark's and Odo's verbal spats have nothing to envy to Londo's and G'Kar's, and the tragedy of Dukat's fall is no less poignant than Garibaldi's (although he doesn't get to redeem himself).

In the alien civilization development field, Babylon 5 had something of a head start; you get the impression that Straczynski had some sort of Alien Bible already written before the first episode aired while DS9 seemed to wing it for a few seasons. However, in the latter case, layer upon layer of development were eventually added to result in amazingly rich alien cultures. We ended up knowing quite a lot about the Bajorans, for example, and it is to the writers' credit that this culture was a mix of interesting and infuriating traits, the same as most foreign cultures are in the real world. It would have been disappointing had the Bajorans been stereotyped good people victims of an oppressing invader while the Cardassians were stereotyped oppressing invaders; the nuances in each culture were established little by little, and made it hard to clearly identify good guys and bad guys.

In both cases, when the series concluded, I had the impression that I was losing friends. When a TV show or a movie manages that, I'd say it's worth watching!

JMS had worked out the basic political structure and role of the aliens; but, the look was developed with the pilot and refined in the first season. The Earth-Minbari War was central to the pilot and the first season, as the station has just gone online and hosts a sort of intergalactic UN (the League of Non-Aligned Worlds). Earth and minbar sponsor the station, though Earthforce mans it. The Minbari triple caste structure was there; but, the make-up changed drastically, between the pilot and the series launch. Originally, they were androgynous and Delenn would transform into a female human/Minbari hybrid. When the series started, she was female Minbari, then transformed into human/Minbari hybrid. Her voice was modulated in the pilot, which was disposed of in series.

The Centauri were humanoid (with hidden differences, from an old galactic empire in its waning days. They were the first to encounter the Earth and acted in an advisory capacity; but, did not aid in the war. They had controlled Narn for generations, before a rebellion forced them to leave. The antagonism between the narn and centauri drive much of the plot of season 1 and 2, with the Shadows manipulating the situation. The hair crest came in make-up development, as it was kind of a last minute thing, as a sort of joke, and JMS called their bluff. It was refined for the series and then Londo's grew as his importance increased. Vir is introduced in season1 with a short crest; but has a much longer one by the 5th season (and the final episode, set in the future). The Napoleonic and Roman look was deliberate, to show a doomed empire.

The Narn sold weapons to Earth and threw off Centauri rule and are very aggressive, politically and militarily, in the pilot and first season. G'Kar is the lone figure, in the pilot and his make-up was slightly refined for series. The Narns are reptilian, with individual spot patterns on their skin, but definite males and females. Their dress is very stark and martial. They are set up as villains, in the pilot, but soon became sympathetic, in the Shadow War and G'K would go through the biggest transformation of all. In the pilot and first season, he is very much like Benjamin Netanyahu, a devout Zionist for Narn. That attitude changes due to circumstances and revelations.

The Vorlon and Shadows are secretive and their forms were mysteries for a while, with mere glimpses, at first. They are the older races, with organic technology and vastly superior power. They were inspire by the Arisians and Eddorians, in the Lensman Saga, who manipulate genetics to create the lenmen and the Boskone pirates.

Other races were slowly introduced. The first season had an insectoid gangster, which was mostly a mechanical puppet, which didn't work very well and was abandoned. They added the Gaim, which was an homage to Neil Gaiman's Sandman design, with the alien-looking helmet. They introduced a race called the Streib, in honor of Whitley Strieber, who went around abducting people, for experiments. The Drazi were showcased as a group with a political divide, that was arbitrary, to illustrate the stupidity of racial divisions, by taking it to an absurd level (they picked a colored scarf out of a barrel, every so many years and fight until one wins dominance). they would grow beyond that into a weaker race technologically; but, one with ambitions.

The pilot had a scene in the alien quarters, where they had special atmospheres and all kinds of races; but, it looked like a trip to the zoo and many of the make-ups and animatronics looked bad, so it was cut when they re-edited the pilot, for rebroadcast.

Some things developed in conjunction with the performances. Stephen Furst proved equally adept at comedy and drama (he was a St Elsewhere vet) and his role increased, as he became a conscience to Londo. Same with Bill Mummy, as Lenier, who is Delenn's aide. he, at first, is a fish out of water. it soon becomes clear that he is in love with Delenn, which colors his actions later in the series.

Andreas Katsulas (the one-armed man, in the Fugitive) was a revelation, as he was given powerful speeches and got to play all sides of the coin. Usually, he was stuck playing heavies, because of his heritage and looks. Peter Jurasik was from Hill Street Blues and added comedy and drama, though Londo's journey is into darkness.

Mira Furlan had been a leading actress in Yugoslavia; but, was forced to escape during the war between Serbia and Bosnia. She and her husband (a director) fled to the UK, then the US. B5 was her first really prominant role in the US (she was later on Lost). She had to portray great wisdom and knowledge, newborn experience, and great strength and power, often in the same episode.

Claudia Christian (Hexed, Freaks & Geeks) was brought in as one of the replacement characters, for the first season (the Exec, doctor and commercial telepath were replaced, between pilot and season 1), and played the dour, ultra-serious Ivanova. Except, she had great comedic timing and a wicked sense of humor, which matched JMS; so, she was given a more sarcastic, deadpan edge which played to that. She was given a backstory as a latent telepath and a budding romance with the female telepath, which got trainwrecked when Andrea Thompson, who played series telepath Talia Winters, left the show. That brought back the pilot telepath, Lyta Alexander, played by actress/stuntwoman Patricia Tallman (Knight Riders, stunt double for Laura dern, in Jurassic Park). She was married to the actor who physically performed Kosh, then was involved with JMS for a while. She also was given more comedic moments, as her flair for it came through.

Anyway, enough of that. There is a B5 thread in the media section, with synopses and reviews of the series (by, guess who?), for anyone interested.

Huh. That sounds cool. My Star Trek beliefs have always been "The original series is the only true Star Trek, everything else is overly self-seriois fanboy crap, much like '80s comics when they switched from being written by WRITERS to being written by FANS."

But I haven't tried to watch any of the Trek TV shows in 20 years, so I don't actually know what I'm talking about. 😁 Maybe I'll give DS9 a shot.