shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Dec 18, 2018 15:20:02 GMT -5
Being a classic and being "utterly unwatchable today" are not incompatible qualities. Something can be extremely significant for the time period but age badly. Like Kurt, I still find some episodes of TOS very enjoyable today, but the vast majority are hard to get through, if only because dated lighting, thrifty set design, crude special effects, and poorly paced writing that often glosses over characterization are harder to stomach when compared to what followed. Next Generation ruined much of TOS for me, DS9 ruined much of TNG for me, and I'm still waiting for something to come along that will ruin DS9 for me. See, I'm the opposite; I enjoy original Trek through today and could not really get into Next Gen (apart from a few episodes here and there) and was bored to tears by DS9 and Voyager, though I tapped out pretty quickly on those. Dated look never bothered me, any more than watching the Flash Gordon serials. It felt more realistic, to me, than the later ones. Too much technobabble, to many moments of arguing around a conference table. Old Trek was livelier, to me, more metaphorical in a more engaging fashion, and with more interesting characters. Granted, most didn't get explored much; but, it just pulls me in more than the slicker, later ones. I think an important difference between later Trek and TOS was that you had to get invested. You could jump into a random episode of TOS with little background and get the full intended effect. For TNG, you had to get invested in the characters first. For DS9, it was a massive serial adventure where you were utterly lost unless you'd been watching since Season 3. I find these to be strengths for the latter series' -- there was pay-off for being invested, whereas TOS doesn't really grow more special if you stay with it - but I can see how these qualities could easily alienate a tentative fan as well. Interesting, as DS9 and Babylon 5 are supposed to be supremely similar to one another. I've not yet gotten around to watching B5, myself. |
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Post by coke & comics on Dec 18, 2018 15:24:59 GMT -5
7. Scarlet Traces
by Ian Edington and D'Israeli Rebellion, 2002 A murder mystery set in the aftermath of War of the Worlds. How cool is that? It's a bit of a steampunk story, because the alien invasion has led to a vision of the early 20th century that isn't quite our own. Humanity has come out ahead with new technologies mined from the defeated aliens. The future looks bright. Or would if not for these mysterious murders... Originally serialized in Judge Dredd Megazine, then reprinted by Dark Horse in its own miniseries, which was then collected into a nice hardcover, which is how I read it. The same team went on to do a prequel of sorts, which was really just an adaptation of War of the Worlds, but that at the same time is setting up some of the characters for Scarlet Traces. I'm not certain which one I recommend beginning with. May as well start with Scarlet Traces, I guess. Both are excellent. 
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Post by Icctrombone on Dec 18, 2018 16:13:16 GMT -5
Aw, come on guys... sure, Shatner is terrible, but you can't tell me that episodes like 'City on the Edge of Forever' and 'Piece of the Action' are absolute classics of television! Being a classic and being "utterly unwatchable today" are not incompatible qualities. Something can be extremely significant for the time period but age badly. Like Kurt, I still find some episodes of TOS very enjoyable today, but the vast majority are hard to get through, if only because dated lighting, thrifty set design, crude special effects, and poorly paced writing that often glosses over characterization are harder to stomach when compared to what followed. Next Generation ruined much of TOS for me, DS9 ruined much of TNG for me, and I'm still waiting for something to come along that will ruin DS9 for me. I found TOS to be a masterpiece, TNG to be so- so until they introduced the Borg, and DS9 to be utterly boring. Voyager was okay and turned great once the woman with the body came onboard. |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Dec 18, 2018 16:38:10 GMT -5
For Day Six I Choose... Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: The Movie1990 Written by Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird Cover by Kevin Eastman Art by Jim Lawson This is a favorite of mine for several reasons; firstly as a kid more than Superman, More than Batman,more than Indiana Jones, more than Star Wars, more than even He-Man(which was a late disqualification to my list)...Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles was my jam. My mom worked at Bradley's at the time and they had a very generous employee discount so I was blessed to have a horde of Turtles action figures, the sewer playset, the blimp and yes the most awesome vehicle ever made, the party wagon! I loved the cartoon, the archie comics(which just missed my list!) and most all I loved the movie. The live action movie was the first film I ever saw in theaters, I was only five, my mother was at work and so my father dropped my 3 year old brother off at our grandparents so that just the two of us could go and see the Turtles on the big screen. I was blown away, it made everything I had loved about the Turtles seem so real and to this day it I still consider it to be my greatest cinema experience and is one of my favorite films to this day. Five months after seeing the live action film for the first time, I was blessed further by being gifted the comic book adaptation and was further floored. The film was a shock to my system enough, but the comic was so different than any other I had experienced. To start with, it was black and white when every other book I had ever read was in color. Next was the art itself, Lawson's pencils were so much rougher and scratchier than anything I'd ever seen and I was instantly in love. It was such a wild experience as a kid, it was so different than anything I had ever seen and it gave me the ability to "see" the movie when ever I wanted. And man does it adapt the film perfectly, scene by scene, line by it's amazing. Even now, the fidelity to the source is fantastic to see, I read the lines and I can hear them in my head as f I was watching the film and yet it doesn't bore me. I think the greatest thing though is that like the film it still holds up to this day, and in fact it has a slew of sly references that went right over my head back then but made me smile when I saw them now like the refrence to the Batman film and this great call out to Cerubus and Usagi Yojimbo's Stan Sakai:
As a bonus, can anyone think of another adaptation done by the original creative team? |
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Post by MDG on Dec 18, 2018 16:46:14 GMT -5
I think an important difference between later Trek and TOS was that you had to get invested. You could jump into a random episode of TOS with little background and get the full intended effect. For TNG, you had to get invested in the characters first. For DS9, it was a massive serial adventure where you were utterly lost unless you'd been watching since Season 3. I find these to be strengths for the latter series' -- there was pay-off for being invested... Well, this is why I basically don't watch "TV" anymore--If i have 90 min-two hours a night to look at a screen while having to pay attention, I'd much rather watch a movie, not feel I'm getting into some long term commitment. |
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Post by foxley on Dec 18, 2018 17:23:46 GMT -5
I didn't imagine it would be possible for me to think any higher of you, Kurt, but it just happened. Aw, come on guys... sure, Shatner is terrible, but you can't tell me that episodes like 'City on the Edge of Forever' and 'Piece of the Action' are absolute classics of television! And 'Spock's Brain' is a misunderstood classic, I suppose?  |
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Post by foxley on Dec 18, 2018 17:52:58 GMT -5
7. "Frankenstein 1974", Monsters Unleashed #2 - 10 (Marvel, 1973 - 74)
I have always been fascinated by the Frankenstein story. Mary Shelley's original novel is a piece of writing, and even today retains its power to be deeply unsettling, and it is often hard for a reader to put his or her finger on a specific reason why. Reading it in my early teens had a deep effect on me.
This tale is just a really good expansion of Shelley's original tale. Although nominally a spinoff of Marvel's The Monster of Frankenstein book, it contains no links to the larger Marvel Universe, and can be read as straight continuation of Shelley's novel. The Monster is found frozen in a block of ice and exhibited at a freak show. A confluence of events conspire to thaw the Monster out, and he finds himself trapped in a strange new world. He just as isolated as he was in his original time, but now stuck in a world he does not understand. He stumbles through a series of adventures, encountering a small number of people who try to help him, and a much larger number who attempt to exploit him.
The story was written by Gary Friedrich, and illustrated originally by John Buscema and later by Val Mayerik. Being a b&w magazine, and not bound by the Comics Code, the story could a lot darker and more horrific than what Marvel could depict in its mainstream comics.
My only real complaint is that the story just petered out rather than coming to any real conclusion.
The story has been collected in the Essential Monster of Frankenstein collection. |
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Post by hondobrode on Dec 18, 2018 18:47:47 GMT -5
7. The Empire Strikes Back adaptation in Star Wars # 39-44 (Marvel 1980-1981)  Star Wars was a cultural phenomenon like sci-fi had never seen before. Bigger than anything that came before, and dare I say, probably since. Roy Thomas (that name again) had wisely urged Marvel to license a Star Wars comic, which was a runaway smash hit. The initial adaptation was good but I wouldn't say great, but I'd definitely say The Empire Strikes Back, was great; in fact, I think it's one of the best adaptations I've ever seen thanks to the star-studded creative team of Archie Goodwin, the legendary Al Williamson and inker Carlos Garzon who made Williamson's pencils near-perfection.  |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
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Post by Confessor on Dec 18, 2018 19:03:35 GMT -5
I'd definitely say The Empire Strikes Back, was great So would I. ...I think it's one of the best adaptations I've ever seen thanks to the star-studded creative team of Archie Goodwin, the legendary Al Williamson and inker Carlos Garzon who made Williamson's pencils near-perfection. I'd go further and say that in terms of straight comic adaptations of films, Marvel's ESB is the best ever. Also, just to be a pedantic nitpicker, the way that Al Williamson and Carlos Garzon worked wasn't a traditional penciller and inker deal, where one did pencils and the other did inks. Williamson and Garzon both pencilled and inked their own work, usually with Williamson doing the figures in the foreground and Garzon doing the backgrounds. That said, there was also a fair bit of crossover, with Williamson often doing backgrounds and foregrounds, while Garzon, who normally stuck to backgrounds, would occasionally do foreground figures too. |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,864
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Post by shaxper on Dec 18, 2018 20:05:50 GMT -5
For Day Six I Choose... Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: The Movie1990Written by Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird Cover by Kevin Eastman Art by Jim Lawson This is a favorite of mine for several reasons; firstly as a kid more than Superman, More than Batman,more than Indiana Jones, more than Star Wars, more than even He-Man(which was a late disqualification to my list)...Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles was my jam. My mom worked at Bradley's at the time and they had a very generous employee discount so I was blessed to have a horde of Turtles action figures, the sewer playset, the blimp and yes the most awesome vehicle ever made, the party wagon! I loved the cartoon, the archie comics(which just missed my list!) and most all I loved the movie. The live action movie was the first film I ever saw in theaters, I was only five, my mother was at work and so my father dropped my 3 year old brother off at our grandparents so that just the two of us could go and see the Turtles on the big screen. I was blown away, it made everything I had loved about the Turtles seem so real and to this day it I still consider it to be my greatest cinema experience and is one of my favorite films to this day.
Five months after seeing the live action film for the first time, I was blessed further by being gifted the comic book adaptation and was further floored. The film was a shock to my system enough, but the comic was so different than any other I had experienced. To start with, it was black and white when every other book I had ever read was in color. Next was the art itself, Lawson's pencils were so much rougher and scratchier than anything I'd ever seen and I was instantly in love. It was such a wild experience as a kid, it was so different than anything I had ever seen and it gave me the ability to "see" the movie when ever I wanted. And man does it adapt the film perfectly, scene by scene, line by it's amazing. Even now, the fidelity to the source is fantastic to see, I read the lines and I can hear them in my head as f I was watching the film and yet it doesn't bore me. I think the greatest thing though is that like the film it still holds up to this day, and in fact it has a slew of sly references that went right over my head back then but made me smile when I saw them now like the refrence to the Batman film and this great call out to Cerubus and Usagi Yojimbo's Stan Sakai:
As a bonus, can anyone think of another adaptation done by the original creative team? I had an extremely brief love affair with this book, encountering it much as you did. But when I got my hands on TMNT vol. 1 #10, I suddenly understood that the film was, itself, an adaptation of a comic book, and that the source material was so much better. I soon traded away this volume, which I regret a little, but whenever I think of the film these days, I just want to open up the original stories again and experience it that way. Which is not to say this isnt a great adaptation. It's far superior to the film; I just prefer the original comics. |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,864
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Post by shaxper on Dec 18, 2018 20:07:29 GMT -5
I think an important difference between later Trek and TOS was that you had to get invested. You could jump into a random episode of TOS with little background and get the full intended effect. For TNG, you had to get invested in the characters first. For DS9, it was a massive serial adventure where you were utterly lost unless you'd been watching since Season 3. I find these to be strengths for the latter series' -- there was pay-off for being invested... Well, this is why I basically don't watch "TV" anymore--If i have 90 min-two hours a night to look at a screen while having to pay attention, I'd much rather watch a movie, not feel I'm getting into some long term commitment. I watch very little TV, but when I do, I want total immersion. I plan to eat, drink, and breathe a television series one episode at a time, similar to how I enjoy experiencing my comic runs 😉 |
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Post by hondobrode on Dec 18, 2018 20:31:02 GMT -5
I'd definitely say The Empire Strikes Back, was great So would I. ...I think it's one of the best adaptations I've ever seen thanks to the star-studded creative team of Archie Goodwin, the legendary Al Williamson and inker Carlos Garzon who made Williamson's pencils near-perfection. I'd go further and say that in terms of straight comic adaptations of films, Marvel's ESB is the best ever. Also, just to be a pedantic nitpicker, the way that Al Williamson and Carlos Garzon worked wasn't a traditional penciller and inker deal, where one did pencils and the other did inks. Williamson and Garzon both pencilled and inked their own work, usually with Williamson doing the figures in the foreground and Garzon doing the backgrounds. That said, there was also a fair bit of crossover, with Williamson often doing backgrounds and foregrounds, while Garzon, who normally stuck to backgrounds, would occasionally do foreground figures too.
Good to know. I didn't know that. Very interesting, in fact, and it's that combination between the two that makes it look so perfect.
The whole adaptation, stem to stern, is flawless.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Dec 18, 2018 22:14:21 GMT -5
For Day Six I Choose... Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: The Movie1990Written by Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird Cover by Kevin Eastman Art by Jim Lawson This is a favorite of mine for several reasons; firstly as a kid more than Superman, More than Batman,more than Indiana Jones, more than Star Wars, more than even He-Man(which was a late disqualification to my list)...Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles was my jam. My mom worked at Bradley's at the time and they had a very generous employee discount so I was blessed to have a horde of Turtles action figures, the sewer playset, the blimp and yes the most awesome vehicle ever made, the party wagon! I loved the cartoon, the archie comics(which just missed my list!) and most all I loved the movie. The live action movie was the first film I ever saw in theaters, I was only five, my mother was at work and so my father dropped my 3 year old brother off at our grandparents so that just the two of us could go and see the Turtles on the big screen. I was blown away, it made everything I had loved about the Turtles seem so real and to this day it I still consider it to be my greatest cinema experience and is one of my favorite films to this day.
Five months after seeing the live action film for the first time, I was blessed further by being gifted the comic book adaptation and was further floored. The film was a shock to my system enough, but the comic was so different than any other I had experienced. To start with, it was black and white when every other book I had ever read was in color. Next was the art itself, Lawson's pencils were so much rougher and scratchier than anything I'd ever seen and I was instantly in love. It was such a wild experience as a kid, it was so different than anything I had ever seen and it gave me the ability to "see" the movie when ever I wanted. And man does it adapt the film perfectly, scene by scene, line by it's amazing. Even now, the fidelity to the source is fantastic to see, I read the lines and I can hear them in my head as f I was watching the film and yet it doesn't bore me. I think the greatest thing though is that like the film it still holds up to this day, and in fact it has a slew of sly references that went right over my head back then but made me smile when I saw them now like the refrence to the Batman film and this great call out to Cerubus and Usagi Yojimbo's Stan Sakai:
As a bonus, can anyone think of another adaptation done by the original creative team? I had an extremely brief love affair with this book, encountering it much as you did. But when I got my hands on TMNT vol. 1 #10, I suddenly understood that the film was, itself, an adaptation of a comic book, and that the source material was so much better. I soon traded away this volume, which I regret a little, but whenever I think of the film these days, I just want to open up the original stories again and experience it that way. Which is not to say this isnt a great adaptation. It's far superior to the film; I just prefer the original comics. I do enjoy the originals, but in many ways I like how the pacing in the film, and the adaptation take the events in #1, the Raphael and Leonardo one shots, #10,11 and sort of 19-21 and condense them into a single story. Are some elements and great character moments sacrificed? Sure, but the main beats are there and the whole worm shredder thing which I never liked was eliminated all together, which I think makes for a better reading experience...and although it might be blasphemy I much prefer Lawson's art to either Eastman or Laird's, so one artist, especially one I enjoy more for the whole story is a plus as well. |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,864
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Post by shaxper on Dec 18, 2018 22:27:36 GMT -5
I had an extremely brief love affair with this book, encountering it much as you did. But when I got my hands on TMNT vol. 1 #10, I suddenly understood that the film was, itself, an adaptation of a comic book, and that the source material was so much better. I soon traded away this volume, which I regret a little, but whenever I think of the film these days, I just want to open up the original stories again and experience it that way. Which is not to say this isnt a great adaptation. It's far superior to the film; I just prefer the original comics. I do enjoy the originals, but in many ways I like how the pacing in the film, and the adaptation take the events in #1, the Raphael and Leonardo one shots, #10,11 and sort of 19-21 and condense them into a single story. Are some elements and great character moments sacrificed? Sure, but the main beats are there and the whole worm shredder thing which I never liked was eliminated all together, which I think makes for a better reading experience. Good points all around, and you are kind in overlooking the wandering, directionless limbo the series was stuck in from issues #3 thru 9, but Leonardo #1, TMNT #10, and TMNT #11 were pure TMNT perfection. Seriously, the movie even vaguely crosses my mind, and all I want to do is read those issues again. |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Dec 18, 2018 22:52:29 GMT -5
I do enjoy the originals, but in many ways I like how the pacing in the film, and the adaptation take the events in #1, the Raphael and Leonardo one shots, #10,11 and sort of 19-21 and condense them into a single story. Are some elements and great character moments sacrificed? Sure, but the main beats are there and the whole worm shredder thing which I never liked was eliminated all together, which I think makes for a better reading experience. Good points all around, and you are kind in overlooking the wandering, directionless limbo the series was stuck in from issues #3 thru 9, but Leonardo #1, TMNT #10, and TMNT #11 were pure TMNT perfection. Seriously, the movie even vaguely crosses my mind, and all I want to do is read those issues again. #10 is an amazing book, that opening is one of my favorites of all time with that double page spread of the foot exploding onto the page being one of my single favorite scenes in all of comicdom.  |
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