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Post by BigPapaJoe on Aug 21, 2018 5:31:51 GMT -5
Harley Quinn has been around since the early 1990s with her appearance in the Batman Animated Series. Ever since, she's gotten more and more popular. I'd say she's at the peak of her popularity right now with the current incarnation inspired by the Suicide Squad film, and Batman Arkham Asylum games.
Really though, I've never understood why she is so interesting to fans. I guess I just don't get the appeal to someone that is simply crazy. I have this issue with the Joker as well. Although his characterization has been more fleshed out throughout history. He's usually written as a true menace to Batman, despite how much of a loon he is supposed to be. Depending on the writer he actually comes of as a criminal genius in a way. So I can tolerate the Joker at times.
Quinn seems to have non of that though from what I've been exposed to. She's just The Joker's side piece. In the incarnations I've seen she's supposed to be the comical sidekick that's funny I guess. I don't really find her antics funny at all though. Now, I will say most of what I've seen has been from the cartoons, and not comics. But is a there a nice run on her in comics that really does a good job of giving her dimension? Not that I'm aware of. Maybe she's just not the character for me. Like Deadpool.
Maybe this is an ignorant take, but I just got the feeling that a lot of people maybe just like what Harley Quinn brings to the table on a surface level. She dresses gothic, with some sex appeal (especially now), and is...crazy? Different strokes for different folks I guess.
BTW, why is she featured as a prominent member of the Suicide Squad? I don't see why Amanda Waller would recruit a crazy nut girl armed with a baseball bat to go on covert missions that doesn't come across as that intelligent. That seems really contrived to me. Even for comic book world.
Help me understand the fascination, because it's not clicking for me.
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Post by rberman on Aug 21, 2018 6:07:30 GMT -5
She's a stock Bad Girl character. She appeared in the Suicide Squad movie to add sex appeal. Men like thinking about an attractive, morally impaired woman, because your subconscious tells you that maybe she would have sex with you. No one would really recruit an erratic wisp of a woman with a baseball bat to fight a super powered sorceror and sorceress. Indeed, no one would recruit any of the Suicide Squad for that job, in a world that has the Justice League. It's just an attempt to update The Dirty Dozen with super-heroes, so some suspension of disbelief is required for the basic premise.
The bigger problem with the Suicide Squad movie is that the characters drop out of the sky, so we don't care about them. Whereas Marvel spent several movies introducing us to the Avengers before teaming them up, so that we already know and like them and can make do just with a brief introduction to remind us, not the extended "getting the team together and explaining their powers and personalities" that makes the first half of Suicide Squad so ponderous. The lack of a multi-film superstructure in the DCU makes the individual films weaker and shows the superiority of Marvel's approach.
As for Harley Quinn in particular, a real person like that would be unbearable, not attractive. But I guess the same is true of Wolverine. The version of Harley that I like best is in The Lego Batman Movie, where she's more of a loopy spy and not a sexpot, because kids.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 7:54:11 GMT -5
I have never cared for her either. Annoying character.
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Post by BigPapaJoe on Aug 21, 2018 9:14:49 GMT -5
She's a stock Bad Girl character. She appeared in the Suicide Squad movie to add sex appeal. Men like thinking about an attractive, morally impaired woman, because your subconscious tells you that maybe she would have sex with you. No one would really recruit an erratic wisp of a woman with a baseball bat to fight a super powered sorceror and sorceress. Indeed, no one would recruit any of the Suicide Squad for that job, in a world that has the Justice League. It's just an attempt to update The Dirty Dozen with super-heroes, so some suspension of disbelief is required for the basic premise. The bigger problem with the Suicide Squad movie is that the characters drop out of the sky, so we don't care about them. Whereas Marvel spent several movies introducing us to the Avengers before teaming them up, so that we already know and like them and can make do just with a brief introduction to remind us, not the extended "getting the team together and explaining their powers and personalities" that makes the first half of Suicide Squad so ponderous. The lack of a multi-film superstructure in the DCU makes the individual films weaker and shows the superiority of Marvel's approach. As for Harley Quinn in particular, a real person like that would be unbearable, not attractive. But I guess the same is true of Wolverine. The version of Harley that I like best is in The Lego Batman Movie, where she's more of a loopy spy and not a sexpot, because kids. I wasn't really talking about just the Suicide Squad film, just the current iteration on multiple fronts. Like in animation, and in some recent comics I believe. She's on the team, and it's just hard to buy even in DC's own universe. If it's all down to sex appeal, which seems to be case as time has gone on...it just seems lazy even in that regard. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Aug 21, 2018 9:27:57 GMT -5
It's just possible that she's not meant to appeal to middle-aged men.
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Post by Cei-U! on Aug 21, 2018 9:39:17 GMT -5
Harley was specifically created to negate Frank Miller's assertion in The Dark Knight Returns that Joker was a homosexual in love with Batman by giving the green-haired ghoul a love interest. That she became a popular character in spite of being an imposed plot device is a testament to Bruce Timm's design and Arleen Sorkin's voice work. If Harley hadn't worked so well in the cartoons, we would probably never have seen her in the comics.
Cei-U!
I summon the secret origin!
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Post by badwolf on Aug 21, 2018 10:12:02 GMT -5
I feel the same. Her only power is to be super-annoying.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,871
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Post by shaxper on Aug 21, 2018 10:41:09 GMT -5
I think the appeal of the character is she is everything everyone wants her to be.
Looking for a demented, Groucho Marx/Bugs Bunny character who refuses to play by (or even be aware of) societal expectation? She's that.
Want a sexy bad girl to cosplay or fantasize over? She's that.
Want a feminist role model who broke free of an abusive relationship to find her own identity? She's that.
Want a submissive victim who will love you and stick by you no matter how much you hurt her? Somehow she's that too.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,202 
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Post by Confessor on Aug 23, 2018 6:24:15 GMT -5
It's just possible that she's not meant to appeal to middle-aged men. Au contraire...I think she's very much meant to appeal to some middle aged men in her current cultural iteration. Especially sex starved, lonely middle aged men (as well as sex starved, lonely men of any age, from teenagers upwards). Harley Quinn is kooky, flirty, a little unhinged mentally, good in a fight, and has a penchant for wearing cutsie/sexy clothing. She's a classic bad girl. She's also a strong, independent character, which is part of the appeal to women. However, her ability to titillate and dress provocatively is also a big part of the attraction for women, I think. I mean, what modern young lady doesn't want to be a take charge, bad ass, kooky sexpot? As such, Harley Quinn very much ties in with the modern "woman-child" demographic among 20 and 30-something females, so beloved of marketers and advertisers these days. She's also an easy reference point for any female looking to cultivate a "geek chic" fashion aesthetic. Those are the main reasons for the character's current popularity among both males and females, I believe. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2018 8:22:46 GMT -5
I have never cared for her either. Annoying character. I like her in the short term "Birds of Prey" as Dr. Harleen Quinzel played by Mia Sara.  She was my favorite character in Batman the Animated Series as well.  I don't care for her in the Suicide Squad movie and most comic book characterizations as well and I think she is more fun than the Joker and I do think she can be a challenging and complex one to write for. I'm very surprised to read the comments about her in this thread and for me alone she is an attractive character to boot. If you can write her in a way like she was in the Birds of Prey and the playfulness in the Animated Series -- you got yourself a winner in my book. Very popular cosplay character -- when Birds of Prey came out and I remember seeing on one comic-con convention on television there were 20-30 females dressed like Mia Sara below  I'm an opposite of you ... |
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Post by Duragizer on Aug 24, 2018 0:57:28 GMT -5
I like her well enough in B:TAS. Can't stand current hypersexualized/ghetto trash incarnations of her, though.
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Post by BigPapaJoe on Aug 25, 2018 6:55:04 GMT -5
Also lately, it seems like DC is really contriving reasons that she and Batman have to team up. I guess I can see why DC is doing that. They're maybe the two most popular characters for them right now. But yeah, I don't see why Batman needs to recruit Harley to solve a problem.
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Post by Icctrombone on Sept 24, 2018 18:22:12 GMT -5
Interesting comments on her appeal. I have only ever collected a few series that starred Female leads. Birds of Prey is my favorite and I collected the Female Manhunter series from the early 90's. Harley is not my cup of tea, though.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Oct 4, 2018 7:36:51 GMT -5
Interesting comments on her appeal. I have only ever collected a few series that starred Female leads. Birds of Prey is my favorite and I collected the Female Manhunter series from the early 90's. Harley is not my cup of tea, though. I find that it's hard to collect the majority of Big 2 female characters, because after not too long, there's a storyline/cover/etc that makes you feel like you have to explain why you're reading it, and not just ogling ridiculously proportioned women. That generally leaves you with teenaged characters, which can been good (like Gotham Academy) but sometimes are too CW for me. Ms. Marvel has so far (thankfully) been the exception, but most others, not so much. Not sure why, since there's tons of good stuff with female leads outside the big 2. |
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Post by rberman on Oct 4, 2018 8:19:36 GMT -5
Interesting comments on her appeal. I have only ever collected a few series that starred Female leads. Birds of Prey is my favorite and I collected the Female Manhunter series from the early 90's. Harley is not my cup of tea, though. I find that it's hard to collect the majority of Big 2 female characters, because after not too long, there's a storyline/cover/etc that makes you feel like you have to explain why you're reading it, and not just ogling ridiculously proportioned women. That generally leaves you with teenaged characters, which can been good (like Gotham Academy) but sometimes are too CW for me. Ms. Marvel has so far (thankfully) been the exception, but most others, not so much. Not sure why, since there's tons of good stuff with female leads outside the big 2. The other two that come to mind are North/Henderson's "Squirrel Girl" and Perez's "Wonder Woman" run. |
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