shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Sept 11, 2016 13:31:10 GMT -5
As I'm working my way through my reviews of Justice League in the Post-Crisis Era, I'm realizing I'll have to start reading Invasion soon. I expect it to be nearly as painful an endeavor as Millennium and Legends before it. This gets me thinking -- Company-Wide crossovers always sell exceptionally well, but how many of them were ever actually good? I don't claim to have read them all, especially when you consider all the events that occurred across annuals in the 1990s, but looking at all the ones I have read, I can only come up with four that I enjoyed enough to ever read again: 1. Secret Wars. Oh, it had tons of problems, but it's simple and FUN. Always reminds me of the kinds of adventures I'd have with my action figures as an adolescent. 2. Armageddon 2001. Go ahead, laugh. Even with the screwed up last minute change at the end, this was a compelling premise, and getting to read Dystopian future adventures of our favorite DC heroes was a ton of fun. 3. Infinite Crisis. Let me explain. The main series was pretty unimpressive, but the three limited series that were released alongside it (OMAC Project, Rann/Thanagar War, and Day of Judgment) ranged from pretty good to outright fantastic. And don't forget Countdown to Crisis either. It was a fun event with a high entertainment component, even while many of the decisions made for that event were questionable at best. 4. Crisis on Infinite Earths. Been years since I read it all the way through and, honestly, the bulk of it doesn't interest me, but there was a sense of hopeless impending doom that felt more authentic here than it usually does in superhero comics, and Barry Allen's death was legendary. What about you? |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Sept 11, 2016 13:39:30 GMT -5
As I'm working my way through my reviews of Justice League in the Post-Crisis Era, I'm realizing I'll have to start reading Invasion soon. I expect it to be nearly as painful an endeavor as Millennium and Legends before it. This gets me thinking -- Company-Wide crossovers always sell exceptionally well, but how many of them were ever actually good? I don't claim to have read them all, especially when you consider all the events that occurred across annuals in the 1990s, but looking at all the ones I have read, I can only come up with four that I enjoyed enough to ever read again: 1. Secret Wars. Oh, it had tons of problems, but it's simple and FUN. Always reminds me of the kinds of adventures I'd have with my action figures as an adolescent. 2. Armageddon 2001. Go ahead, laugh. Even with the screwed up last minute change at the end, this was a compelling premise, and getting to read Dystopian future adventures of our favorite DC heroes was a ton of fun. 3. Infinite Crisis. Let me explain. The main series was pretty unimpressive, but the three limited series that were released alongside it (OMAC Project, Rann/Thanagar War, and Day of Judgment) ranged from pretty good to outright fantastic. And don't forget Countdown to Crisis either. It was a fun event with a high entertainment component, even while many of the decisions made for that event were questionable at best. 4. Crisis on Infinite Earths. Been years since I read it all the way through and, honestly, the bulk of it doesn't interest me, but there was a sense of hopeless impending doom that felt more authentic here than it usually does in superhero comics, and Barry Allen's death was legendary. What about you? I can honestly say that I really didn't like any of them. Truly. I liked Crisis at the time, but now realize that it's both a mess and it was completely unnecessary. Secret Wars was so bad I stopped buying it at a little short of the half-way point. I actually think some of the Armageddon are fun. Or did when I read them. But the underlying concept was a mess. I just think overall that company-wide events are horrible. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2016 13:55:56 GMT -5
The majority were crap. I stopped buying them years ago. The only one I can remember enjoying was Final Night (DC). I wish they had let Hal's sacrifice stand.
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Post by coke & comics on Sept 11, 2016 14:04:10 GMT -5
I came up with 6 not-terrible Marvel crossovers.
Infinity Gauntlet will always be one of my favorite comics. More recently, along those lines, I thought Annihilation was awesome. I basically enjoy Contest of Champions and Secret Wars, but ultimately must blame them for what would follow. Annihilation: Conquest was better than most crossovers, but I found it a disappointing follow-up to Annihilation. Maximum Security was inoffensive but forgettable. It's really only notable for being (1) well-structured, as crossovers go; and (2) being a decent story-- a rare feat for a major Marvel crossover.**
There are these not-quite crossovers, that are more of a common backdrop. That is sometimes okay, usually hit-and-miss. Evolutionary War, for example. It's really a series of one-shot stories against a common backdrop of the High Evolutionary's plans. Some stories were good, some bad. They don't connect all that much, so it's inoffensive.
Most of the rest I've read are pretty bad. I mostly stopped reading them after Civil War, which remains my least favorite story ever. The only one I've read since is the aforementioned Annihilation: Conquest, and I started but have never finished War of Kings. One of these days, I may check out the new Secret Wars story. I definitely expect to at least read the Spider-Man-focused parts.
Beyond that? Infinity War/Crusade -- terrible. Infinity Abyss/Marvel The End, Secret Wars II-- Not good. Atlantis Attacks, Acts of Vengeance-- Basically inoffensive at best. House of M, Onslaught -- Best forgotten. Inferno -- Mostly a backdrop, a few good issues, mostly bad.
Think that's all I read.
** I was also a bit annoyed at what I saw as a retcon to the ending of Operation: Galactic Storm in Maximum Security. I brought it up with Kurt Busiek once and he justified himself well, because he's eloquent when arguing online, but I remained displeased.
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Post by coke & comics on Sept 11, 2016 14:06:36 GMT -5
It's perhaps worth noting that most of them, especially those with a billion tie-in issues, have some good tie-in pieces. For example, the Brubaker Captain America Civil War tie-ins are great comics, and it leads into the truly excellent "Death of Captain America" arc.
For me to label a crossover good, I would want to see consistency of quality and a strong core story, and they mostly lack that, with the few exceptions noted above.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Sept 11, 2016 14:28:14 GMT -5
Shax you don't like Invasion! Oh say it ain't so shax. Say it ain't so. :-)
My take on events is, I'm more susceptible to be kinder buying old events rather than events happening while I'm reading something. It's the only gripe I had about Abnett & Lanning's GotG. Was that too many events interrupted the flow of the issues. It was literally the last new title I was reading and I wanted to see it to the end. But would've have liked stories contained in the title.
Annihilation and Conquest were probably the best Marvel has done with an event since Infinity Gauntlet. I was really surprised and pleased with them.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Sept 11, 2016 14:39:07 GMT -5
It's perhaps worth noting that most of them, especially those with a billion tie-in issues, have some good tie-in pieces. For example, the Brubaker Captain America Civil War tie-ins are great comics, and it leads into the truly excellent "Death of Captain America" arc. True! My favourite things about the mutant massacre, Fall of the mutants, Inferno and Acts of vengeance events were the Daredevil issues that were tied to them. Great examples of making lemonade with a handful of lemons. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2016 14:48:15 GMT -5
Valiant's Unity Crossover was decent.
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shaxper
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Posts: 22,406
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Post by shaxper on Sept 11, 2016 14:49:12 GMT -5
Shax you don't like Invasion! Oh say it ain't so shax. Say it ain't so. :-) Haven't read it yet. Will be reviewing it as part of my Justice League reviews thread soon. |
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Post by coke & comics on Sept 11, 2016 14:50:01 GMT -5
It's perhaps worth noting that most of them, especially those with a billion tie-in issues, have some good tie-in pieces. For example, the Brubaker Captain America Civil War tie-ins are great comics, and it leads into the truly excellent "Death of Captain America" arc. True! My favourite things about the mutant massacre, Fall of the mutants, Inferno and Acts of vengeance events were the Daredevil issues that were tied to them. Great examples of making lemonade with a handful of lemons. is a fine example of a story I mostly hate. But I enjoy Daredevil fighting a vacuum cleaner, and Jarvis as the last Avenger standing against objects come to life. |
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Post by chadwilliam on Sept 11, 2016 14:55:07 GMT -5
Not sure why Secret Wars gets such a bad rap - was it too commercial? I read it about five years ago and really enjoyed it though I admit, I may be misremembering certain details. Dr Doom has a compelling arc in which he acquires all the power he's ever desired and decides that revenge is now beneath him. The same goes for The Molecule Man who is recognized as the most powerful of the group and yet lacks the confidence in himself to realize this fact. Hulk holding up a mountain, Spider-Man's Alien Costume, some fantastic Mike Zeck artwork - really not sure what I'm missing here.
How about Inferno? I picked up
when it came out and had no idea what was happening but I loved every moment of it. I still don't since I've never followed X Men and I believe that this event stemmed from something to do with them. But wow, what a crazy story to read when you're 10.
Some crossovers were pretty bad, such as Zero Hour, but we got some great stuff out of it.
Wow - Batman teaming up with Alfred Beagle in a story that actually addresses where Alfred went on holiday back around Detective Comics 83.
And I recently reread Superman Annual 3 which was the first issue to tie in with Armageddon 2001 and I enjoyed it. I'm not really a fan of post-Crisis Superman but as someone who loved DC's Imaginary Tales some of these were quite good. |
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shaxper
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Posts: 22,406
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Post by shaxper on Sept 11, 2016 14:59:27 GMT -5
when it came out and had no idea what was happening but I loved every moment of it. I still don't since I've never followed X Men and I believe that this event stemmed from something to do with them. X-Factor, actually, though the X-Men title was part of the crossover. |
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Sept 11, 2016 15:05:45 GMT -5
Shax you don't like Invasion! Oh say it ain't so shax. Say it ain't so. :-) Haven't read it yet. Will be reviewing it as part of my Justice League reviews thread soon. My mistake I miss read that part of your post. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Sept 11, 2016 15:49:51 GMT -5
I rate these as great-
Infinity Gauntlet
Crisis on Infinite Earths
I rate these as good-
Secret Invasion
Identity Crisis
Annihilation
legends
I rate these as dreck-
Final crisis
Original Sin
Im sure there's more but these are off the top of my head.
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Post by berkley on Sept 11, 2016 16:38:49 GMT -5
I haven't seen one I liked yet, that I can think of. None of the various concepts they've been based on have ever felt compelling to me in themselves, and without that I don't think a company-wide event that ties in all titles, all the many characters and settings of their fictional universe is likely to generate good stories across the board, though of course that doesn't mean there can't be some individual good comics to come out of it here and there.
But I haven't looked at all of them. I'm willing to think there might be some good ones out there - Annihilation sounds like it might have potential, for example.
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