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Post by rom on Jun 17, 2017 15:06:07 GMT -5
For what it's worth, I just checked on Amazon and the highly-anticipated (at least by me) Tarzan: The Buscema Years Omnibus has been delayed (yet again), and now has a release date of January 2018.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Jun 18, 2017 4:00:38 GMT -5
Man, I just noticed this thread now when Rom's post bumped to the top of the list, and I'm noticing for the first time that there's actually (maybe) going to be an omnibus of Marvel's Tarzan. I've been wanting something like that forever, because those are my favorite Tarzan comics ever (and the rendering of Tarzan by John (especially) but also Sal Buscema is my favorite comics version of Tarzan bar none). All of the delays have me a bit concerned, though... Otherwise, interesting discussion. While I had watched some of the old b&w Tarzan movies and the Roy Ely series as a small child, I only became really interested in the character thanks to the excellent Filmation cartoon mentioned previously and the (Marvel) comics. That led me to the books, which I initially loved, and those led me to Burroughs' other books, mainly John Carter of Mars and Pellicidar. However, I really burned out on his Tarzan book after about the sixteenth or seventeenth in the series, as I was getting tired of the recycled plots, and after that I've never read anything by Burroughs again. I think his Martian series is the best and best-written of his creations. (And unlike the apparent global consensus, I *loved* the John Carter movie from a few years back.)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2017 6:52:59 GMT -5
Man, I just noticed this thread now when Rom's post bumped to the top of the list, and I'm noticing for the first time that there's actually (maybe) going to be an omnibus of Marvel's Tarzan. I've been wanting something like that forever, because those are my favorite Tarzan comics ever (and the rendering of Tarzan by John (especially) but also Sal Buscema is my favorite comics version of Tarzan bar none). All of the delays have me a bit concerned, though... Otherwise, interesting discussion. While I had watched some of the old b&w Tarzan movies and the Roy Ely series as a small child, I only became really interested in the character thanks to the excellent Filmation cartoon mentioned previously and the (Marvel) comics. That led me to the books, which I initially loved, and those led me to Burroughs' other books, mainly John Carter of Mars and Pellicidar. However, I really burned out on his Tarzan book after about the sixteenth or seventeenth in the series, as I was getting tired of the recycled plots, and after that I've never read anything by Burroughs again. I think his Martian series is the best and best-written of his creations. (And unlike the apparent global consensus, I *loved* the John Carter movie from a few years back.) I loved the John Carter movie too!
And for me Joe Kubert's Tarzan at DC >>Marvel's Tarzan
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jun 18, 2017 11:12:13 GMT -5
(And unlike the apparent global consensus, I *loved* the John Carter movie from a few years back.) Count me among those who loved it! I think movie critics just jumped on the "let's hate this movie for no real reason" bandwagon and caused it to tank at box office, even though it was in no way inferior to several other popular fantasy films. I'd rewatch John Carter any day over a Harry Potter film, Star Wars episodes I, II, III, Iron Man II or III, or even Captain America: the first avenger. While I think the film failed to convey the essence ofthe Burroughs character and that a better editing would have helped it, it was a fun and humorous adventure romp with a few moments of brilliance.
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Post by rom on Jun 18, 2017 16:29:13 GMT -5
Count me in as someone else who truly enjoyed the 2012 John Carter film. I dug up a review I did of this a while back:
Though I missed John Carter in the theatre, I did see it twice on DVD. What an incredible film, which truly exceeded my expectations - amazing effects, incredible scenery, & solid story. The film makers were very true to the original ERB novel(s), while at the same time changing some elements to make things more "cinematic". I was a fan of the novels back in the day, so I was already familiar with the material:
The green four-armed Tharks and the red-skinned/blue-blooded (but otherwise human-looking) people were close to what ERB described in the original books, and the vehicles/other tech was similar to the books as well. Also liked the elaborate costumes, amazing cityscapes, deserts, etc.
I liked the fact that they carried over JC being able to leap very high in the film from the ERB books. If JC hadn't had this extra advantage while on Mars (due to the change in gravity?!), then I don't see how he would have been able to defeat his much more powerful enemies. I.e., if he had just been a regular non-super powered guy wandering around Mars, IMHO he would've been taken out by the Martians very early on...
As far as the main actor who played JC, I didn't have any problems with him - that being said, I felt the film was primarily about the effects, make-up, & creatures more than the actors/acting.
The CGI was amazing, and you could really see texture in the skin of the Tharks, the fur of the white apes, etc.
Though the whole film was excellent, two of the scenes that really stood out for me were the one where John Carter stayed behind to fight off all the evil Tharks alone (that were led by the bald Thern), as well as the arena scene, where JC fought against the large, four-armed white apes - Incredible!
I liked how they changed the explanation as to how JC was transported to Mars to make it more pseudo-scientific/magical, i.e., the medallion was what transported his "consciousness" to Mars; in the original ERB novel, I don't think much of an explanation was given here.
As to why JC didn't do better at the box office despite being such an incredibly visually stunning & amazing movie:
Obviously, the title. After seeing the film, I really can't believe it was called "John Carter" instead of "John Carter of Mars" or, even better, "John Carter, Warlord of Mars"...I am extremely surprised that Disney didn't at least put "Mars" in the title of the film. Granted, even though the word "Mars" may have not worked for other films, there is no possible way that the general public would know what JC was about without this.
In any case, adding "Mars" to the title would certainly not caused the film to do any worse at the box office than it already did. And, it was interesting that at the very end of the film (before the credits), they did show the title "John Carter of Mars"...As it stood, when an average joe off the street hears the name "John Carter", they would probably think of Noah Wyle's character in ER....You would have thought Disney would have been able to do a better job with the marketing here, given the $ at their disposal...
Also, IMHO three other reasons the film didn't do well:
Timing: The film was released in March, and though that would initially seem like a great time for release since it didn't have to compete against the blockbusters that were coming out in May - July, I'm not sure it was the right move. If the film had instead been released in August (while people were still in the mode of seeing summer films) it may have done better. Then again, maybe not...
I enjoyed the world that was created; very bizarre & definitely sci-fi, but with an archaic, old-fashioned vibe/tone. IMHO the film was an extremely faithful representation of the world that was described in the novels, and that may have been the problem & may explain why people couldn't relate to the film..In the early 21st century, it's tough to relate to a story that was written 100 years ago.
Lack of a toyline: Sure, I completely understand that toy companies probably didn't want to invest in the film since they were uncertain of how well it would do, but IMHO a small, limited series of 4-5 figures and 2-3 creatures @ stores like Target, Wal-mart, etc. a couple of months prior to the film's release may have gone a long way towards making kids both aware of the film & wanting to see the movie. Of course, this may not have made much difference in this case, but it probably couldn't have hurt either...
In any case, it's unfortunate that the film didn't do better at the box office, which means there won't be any sequels...
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Post by EdoBosnar on Jun 19, 2017 4:48:27 GMT -5
Wow, nice to see so much love for the JC movie; Rom, while I never looked into it thoroughly, I do recall reading that there almost seemed to be a willful sabotage of the film, from its name ('Warlord of Mars' or 'Princess of Mars' or even 'Barsoom' would have been better) and release date through the way it was marketed. Quite unfortunate, for like you said, it was such a fun movie, which I think really captured the essence and feel of Burroughs' stories with just a few adjustments here and there. One thing I really liked was that there was virtually no attempt to get all sciency and over-explain how all this could be happening on Mars (mainly how a planet farther away from the sun than Earth could be so hot that people can walk around almost naked) - Barsoom is just treated as the fantasy setting it is.
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Post by badwolf on Jun 19, 2017 9:55:13 GMT -5
Yes, and I highly recommend the rest of the series, all with Frazetta covers and interior illustrations (except one book by Corben, and not his best work, unfortunately). We only had this one but I was able to find the others second hand at very reasonable prices a few years ago. This was from some kind of book club our parents signed up for. I think my older brother probably made all the SF selections. Doubleday operated The Book of the Month Club which was an umbrella under which there were a number of other "Book Clubs" including The Science Fiction Book Club. I was a member of the SFBC off and on from probably 1980 until sometime in the late 90s when e-commerce made it somewhat redundant. The amazing thing about the SFBC were the omnibus editions which collected a number of books into decent quality hardcovers. The perennials (at least during my time with the SFBC) were Asimov's Foundation Trilogy, Zelazny's Amber Novels (in two volumes) and ERB's Mars books. It's really a shame they stopped doing those. I too have been a member on and off since the 80s and in my last stint it seemed they only offered the same books you could get in stores. There didn't seem to be a point in even being in the club. I love coming across the old collections in libraries. I even look fondly on the ones that had terrible covers!
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Post by badwolf on Jun 19, 2017 10:02:06 GMT -5
It's only recently I've got into ERB's work. A few years ago I found The Moon Maid and The Moon Men in a second hand book store and couldn't resist the Frazetta covers. I really enjoyed them.
I found Pirates of Venus in the library and was a bit disappointed; it was the same story as The Moon Maid (and seemingly A Princess of Mars as well, based on the Marvel series.)
I don't know if I will read more, since he seems to have an outline that he keeps recycling. I'm open to suggestions, though.
The Marvel John Carter series was ok, as was the movie.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jun 19, 2017 10:23:57 GMT -5
I found Pirates of Venus in the library and was a bit disappointed; it was the same story as The Moon Maid (and seemingly A Princess of Mars as well, based on the Marvel series.) Burroughs definitely has a formula. Hero finds himself transported to some exotic environment. Becomes fluent in the local language in under two weeks. Hero falls in love with the first girl he meets. Girl likes hero at first, then for some reason grows distant. Hero remains stoically true to her no matter what. Girl is separated from hero (usually being abducted by bad guys). Hero defeats bad guys, rescues the girl, and deeply changes the exotic society he found himself in.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 19, 2017 10:38:41 GMT -5
The omnibus editions of the SFBC weren't necessarily exclusives, though the Book Clubs had specific editions of many books, to differentiate them from trade editions. Omnibus editions were sold through bookstores, including some of those sci-fi ones, depending on who did the buying for the store. At B7N, we got tons of that material, mostly for the Bargain Section, until they publishers cut back on them (all but eliminated, these days). With the Mars books falling into the public domain, there have been several omnibus editions available, mostly of the first 3 (expanded as the others entered public domain). Fall River Press has a nice illustrated one, of the first three novels, with Tom Yeates artwork. There is another with the first 5 novels.
Book Club editions used to be slightly smaller in size, which would lead to some amusing conversation at Christmas, when people tried to return a gift and we explained to them it came for a Book Club, and was not returnable to us. We'd show the the regular edition, for comparison. Some had copy on the cover; others didn't. Same problem with the Scholastic Book editions of childrens books. We'd have to show them the Book Club text to make them understand they couldn't return it to us.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 19, 2017 10:39:21 GMT -5
I found Pirates of Venus in the library and was a bit disappointed; it was the same story as The Moon Maid (and seemingly A Princess of Mars as well, based on the Marvel series.) Burroughs definitely has a formula. Hero finds himself transported to some exotic environment. Hero falls in love with the first girl he meets. Girl likes hero at first, then for some reason grows distant. Hero remains stoically true to her no matter what. Girl is separated from hero (usually being abducted by bad guys). Hero defeats bad guys, rescues the girl, and deeply changes the exotic society he found himself in. You left out "rushing to new locale."
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Post by EdoBosnar on Jun 19, 2017 11:22:30 GMT -5
Yes, Burroughs definitely had his oft-used storytelling formulas. I think those came to the fore more in his Tarzan books, though (as I mentioned above). By the way, since we're talking about covers to the various editions of the Barsoom books, I have to say that as much as I love the Frazetta images (and just love Frazetta's work in general), I always saw the covers done by Michael Whelan from the paperback editions published in the late '70s the definitive depictions of Barsoom (of course, those were the ones you could find on the shelves of bookstores when I started reading them as a preteen...).
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jun 19, 2017 11:24:17 GMT -5
It's only recently I've got into ERB's work. A few years ago I found The Moon Maid and The Moon Men in a second hand book store and couldn't resist the Frazetta covers. I really enjoyed them. I found Pirates of Venus in the library and was a bit disappointed; it was the same story as The Moon Maid (and seemingly A Princess of Mars as well, based on the Marvel series.) I don't know if I will read more, since he seems to have an outline that he keeps recycling. I'm open to suggestions, though. The Marvel John Carter series was ok, as was the movie. Try The Mucker. It still adheres in a lot of ways to the formula that R.R. set out. But it's a very early work so he was still working out what he was doing. And the major plus is that the protagonist is a complete thug. So we don't have the "noble hero" trope that was so prevalent in the vast majority of Burroughs' work.
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Post by rom on Jun 19, 2017 20:51:41 GMT -5
I'm in my late 40's, so am old enough to remember those great ERB PB's with the amazing Frazetta covers. I haven't read the Tarzan or Mars books in years, but have considered going back & re-reading these. Your local library is the best bet for possibly seeing some of these older volumes, since most bookstores (at least the few that are still around) wouldn't carry these older volumes anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 7:32:02 GMT -5
I found Pirates of Venus in the library and was a bit disappointed; it was the same story as The Moon Maid (and seemingly A Princess of Mars as well, based on the Marvel series.) Burroughs definitely has a formula. Hero finds himself transported to some exotic environment. Becomes fluent in the local language in under two weeks. Hero falls in love with the first girl he meets. Girl likes hero at first, then for some reason grows distant. Hero remains stoically true to her no matter what. Girl is separated from hero (usually being abducted by bad guys). Hero defeats bad guys, rescues the girl, and deeply changes the exotic society he found himself in. For me there is some "comfort" in a formula in fiction when reading the same character. It "feels" right. Like James Bond. You know he will find a beautiful woman in every story. He will drive an amazing car. He will say "Bond, James Bond" & "shaken not stirred". And you probably have a smile on your face when you read/hear those lines.
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