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Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Apr 11, 2016 22:03:23 GMT -5
I don't have any desire to read or collect anything that ties into or results from Civil War. Nothing grabs me. The art on the various titles varies from decent to downright atrocious (Wolverine is drawn terribly in his "part" for Civil War).
The idea is decent, but as shaxper said, DC did it already and owned it. Cap should have been the one to be pro registration, Iron Man should have opposed. Spider-Man never should have removed his mask. Civil War should have been done in its own series with a few tie ins...not over a year across every single title. It ruined comics from Marvel IMO as I have yet to find anything in the 4-5 years afterwards that was worth reading or that I could say the artwork was worth having (exceptions being Steve Epting covers and Campbell covers...I enjoy those). I also think Civil War ruined Marvel's major characters. Consider it...has anything done since that has involved Spider-Man, Captain America, Iron Man, X-Men or the Fantastic Four been done well? I am sure there have been some okay/decent stories but nothing that was noteworthy, that is for sure. There have just been a lot of gimmicks and "deaths".
Instead, we are seeing characters who weren't featured heavily (or at all) getting great stories and work...people like Hawkeye, Thor, Squirrel Girl, Captain/Ms. Marvel, Guardians of the Galaxy, Silver Surfer to name a few. Their stories and histories weren't dramatically altered in Civil War so their history still remains mostly intact and I think that is why writers are giving their best on these titles. It is hard to tackle Spider-Man when he has revealed his ID and then died and come back as Doc Ock and whatever the heck happened there.
Cinematically, I hope they just get it over with. I doubt it will blow me away. Spider-Man already looks terrible and the direction they seem to be heading annoys me. It seems that he is going to be some side project that Tony Stark works in so much that maybe he even designs the costume. That folks is not Spidey. I'm not saying I want to see his origin story again. Just have him start of already in costume, maybe flashback to moments...and start right into something like the Sinister Six. But I digress.
I think it is safe to say War Machine dies and I would not put it past Captain America dying either. I would have rather they not did Civil War at all but at the least, they are containing it to one movie and not multiple. I think they need to continue to invest in Netflix. Daredevil and Jessica Jones were great. I think they need to consider doing Fantastic Four in this manner...a great team that needs to get its true moment to shine.
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Post by sabongero on Apr 11, 2016 22:59:20 GMT -5
The idea is decent, but as shaxper said, DC did it already and owned it. That's interesting. When did DC do that and during what era and titles? I am interested in reading it. @ Shaxper - Which DC comic books did a "Civil War"-like in the past? Thanks. |
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Post by batlaw on Apr 11, 2016 23:50:42 GMT -5
I don't have any desire to read or collect anything that ties into or results from Civil War. Nothing grabs me. The art on the various titles varies from decent to downright atrocious (Wolverine is drawn terribly in his "part" for Civil War).
The idea is decent, but as shaxper said, DC did it already and owned it. Cap should have been the one to be pro registration, Iron Man should have opposed. Spider-Man never should have removed his mask. Civil War should have been done in its own series with a few tie ins...not over a year across every single title. It ruined comics from Marvel IMO as I have yet to find anything in the 4-5 years afterwards that was worth reading or that I could say the artwork was worth having (exceptions being Steve Epting covers and Campbell covers...I enjoy those). I also think Civil War ruined Marvel's major characters. Consider it...has anything done since that has involved Spider-Man, Captain America, Iron Man, X-Men or the Fantastic Four been done well? I am sure there have been some okay/decent stories but nothing that was noteworthy, that is for sure. There have just been a lot of gimmicks and "deaths".
Instead, we are seeing characters who weren't featured heavily (or at all) getting great stories and work...people like Hawkeye, Thor, Squirrel Girl, Captain/Ms. Marvel, Guardians of the Galaxy, Silver Surfer to name a few. Their stories and histories weren't dramatically altered in Civil War so their history still remains mostly intact and I think that is why writers are giving their best on these titles. It is hard to tackle Spider-Man when he has revealed his ID and then died and come back as Doc Ock and whatever the heck happened there.
Cinematically, I hope they just get it over with. I doubt it will blow me away. Spider-Man already looks terrible and the direction they seem to be heading annoys me. It seems that he is going to be some side project that Tony Stark works in so much that maybe he even designs the costume. That folks is not Spidey. I'm not saying I want to see his origin story again. Just have him start of already in costume, maybe flashback to moments...and start right into something like the Sinister Six. But I digress.
I think it is safe to say War Machine dies and I would not put it past Captain America dying either. I would have rather they not did Civil War at all but at the least, they are containing it to one movie and not multiple. I think they need to continue to invest in Netflix. Daredevil and Jessica Jones were great. I think they need to consider doing Fantastic Four in this manner...a great team that needs to get its true moment to shine.
I loved civil war personally. But then I hadn't been reading much marvel at that point beyond punisher and periodically DD. Civil war brought me me back into marvel rather heavily and soon more so than DC. I thought it was bold and handled masterfully. I also continued reading and enjoying much of the marvel u afterwords. Much of which I also found exceptional... Such as capt.A, iron man, planet hulk, even the events like fear itself and siege I really dug. |
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Post by Ozymandias on Apr 12, 2016 2:27:56 GMT -5
[...] it was, to some extent, a theft of the concept behind Watchmen. and TDKR started a new direction, the industry tried to follow. For a long time, those attempts were clumsy at best, Civil War was successful to a point. Where it failed, was in the aftermath, patching it up and going back to the way things were... never in the cards. |
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Post by Ozymandias on Apr 12, 2016 2:49:54 GMT -5
I don't think Cap will die because this isn't the comic world. The movie audience won't accept the easy way that Heroes are brought back the was us abused comic fans do. Don't tell Snyder  |
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Post by tingramretro on Apr 12, 2016 3:00:48 GMT -5
Do we have to be cordial towards Mark Millar and Joe Quesada? I'm afraid being cordial towards Mark Millar is beyond me. Some of us still remember the atrocities he inflicted on 2000 AD in the 1990s...  |
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Post by Ozymandias on Apr 12, 2016 3:11:05 GMT -5
Civil War, from the point of view of storytelling, suffered in my view from the dichotomy between the make-believe world of superheroes and the real-world considerations that were suddenly brought to it. This was already brought up by Trevor, so I'll just reiterate my reply. |
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Post by Ozymandias on Apr 12, 2016 3:16:33 GMT -5
Cap should have been the one to be pro registration, Iron Man should have opposed. Spider-Man never should have removed his mask. Agreed only on the last part. It's not like he didn't know better than anyone, what happens when your enemies know where you live.
Back In Black would've made for a nice last Spider-Man story, though. |
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Post by dupersuper on Apr 12, 2016 12:27:51 GMT -5
Cool idea,a couple cool one-shots, but sub-par execution with many characters acting out of character to service the kid playing with action figures level fights at the end.
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Post by sabongero on Apr 12, 2016 13:22:23 GMT -5
Agreed only on the last part. It's not like he didn't know better than anyone, what happens when your enemies know where you live.
Back In Black would've made for a nice last Spider-Man story, though. Is that the storyarc where Spider-Man breaks into prison and beats the crap out of Kingpin in front of all the prisoners, and threatens to come back to end Kingpin if his aunt May dies? That was one of my favorite Spider-Man stories aside from the two issue storyarc where he defeats Firelord a couple of decades ago. |
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Post by Ozymandias on Apr 12, 2016 14:51:20 GMT -5
Agreed only on the last part. It's not like he didn't know better than anyone, what happens when your enemies know where you live.
Back In Black would've made for a nice last Spider-Man story, though. Is that the storyarc where Spider-Man breaks into prison and beats the crap out of Kingpin in front of all the prisoners, and threatens to come back to end Kingpin if his aunt May dies? That was one of my favorite Spider-Man stories aside from the two issue storyarc where he defeats Firelord a couple of decades ago. Yes, ASM #539-543. Right afterwards, came OMD and all that nonsense. There's was an article, actually trashing the Firebird fight, here's my favourite quote. |
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Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Apr 14, 2016 8:22:23 GMT -5
The idea is decent, but as shaxper said, DC did it already and owned it. That's interesting. When did DC do that and during what era and titles? I am interested in reading it. @ Shaxper - Which DC comic books did a "Civil War"-like in the past? Thanks. I moreso meant the concept of who watches the Watchmen...or who polices the superheros which was a point made and well executed in The Watchmen. In terms of a full on division of the entire superhero universe, no nothing like that had been done. I think it was just poorly planned and the whole idea got too big for its britches so to speak. The aftermath resulted in terrible comics and as an art fan, nothing presented during the Civil War was something I can be a fan of. I'm just a new school old school collector is all (what I mean is that Im young enough where something like Civil War should be part of my collecting childhood but things like 70's Spidey were because that appealed to me and still does to this day). |
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Post by crazyoldhermit on Apr 15, 2016 21:48:37 GMT -5
Another rumor says that three Avengers will die. If so that is kind of a lot and would be shocking. I'll guess that Captain America dies, based off of the end of the Civil War comic. I don't think Cap will die because this isn't the comic world. The movie audience won't accept the easy way that Heroes are brought back the was us abused comic fans do. Theres no way in hell Marvel is killing off one of their few black heroes. Not when ethnic representation in superhero stories is such a hot topic. Cap will die, and get revived, and the movie audience will accept it. The arguement that the general audience won't accept wacky comic stuff has been smashed by the MCU time and time again. Let us not forget that there was heavy skepticism over whether or not something as fantasy-based as Thor or old-fashioned as Captain America could even work in the same world as Iron Man. They did. The Avengers? It works. Guardians of the Galaxy? It works. Ant-Man? It works. A crucial difference between Marvel Studios and the handling of DC at WB is that Marvel isn't afraid to plant a flag and dare audiences to accept what comic fans have accepted for years, whereas WB seems embarassed by their properties and does everything possible to overcompensate for that out of fear of being rejected. What happens? WB movies get lukewarm reception, while everyone and their mother salutes Marvel's flag. |
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Post by Ozymandias on Apr 16, 2016 1:42:26 GMT -5
A crucial difference between Marvel Studios and the handling of DC at WB is that Marvel isn't afraid to plant a flag and dare audiences to accept what comic fans have accepted for years, whereas WB seems embarassed by their properties and does everything possible to overcompensate for that out of fear of being rejected. What happens? WB movies get lukewarm reception, while everyone and their mother salutes Marvel's flag. Not everyone. I'm not saying that they should try for the WB realistic approach, but Batman and Superman benefit from it. |
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Post by tingramretro on Apr 16, 2016 1:46:43 GMT -5
That's interesting. When did DC do that and during what era and titles? I am interested in reading it. @ Shaxper - Which DC comic books did a "Civil War"-like in the past? Thanks. I moreso meant the concept of who watches the Watchmen...or who polices the superheros which was a point made and well executed in The Watchmen. In terms of a full on division of the entire superhero universe, no nothing like that had been done. I think it was just poorly planned and the whole idea got too big for its britches so to speak. The aftermath resulted in terrible comics and as an art fan, nothing presented during the Civil War was something I can be a fan of. I'm just a new school old school collector is all (what I mean is that Im young enough where something like Civil War should be part of my collecting childhood but things like 70's Spidey were because that appealed to me and still does to this day). I grew up in the 70s, and much prefer the art styles back then generally, but I liked Civil War and I don't think it really "resulted in terrible comics". It wasn't perfect, but it changed the dynamic of the Marvel Universe in new and interesting ways and led to the creation of a number of books I quite liked, particularly Avengers: The Initiative. |
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