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Post by Icctrombone on Nov 23, 2024 9:35:19 GMT -5
Read this Neal Adams produced mini series 1-4 of 6. It's from 2019 , so Neal would have been 78 at the time. Writing has never been a strong suit for Adams and it shows in this mini. At this stage , no one is telling Neal no, so you have to accept unclear storytelling and bad dialogue. In issue #2 it ends in a specific action oriented cliffhanger but the following issue doesn't show the conclusion. MRPs_Missives asked me if it was worth picking up and my answer is yes if only to see some of the decent artwork and at the right price. I got these for a buck each and I wouldn't pay more than that.  |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Nov 23, 2024 10:36:12 GMT -5
Still forcing my way through John Byrne's run on Fantastic Four because so many have sweared by it. I'm pretty far in--She Hulk joins next issue--and I'm still not seeing the appeal. No, it's nowhere near the trainwreck that much of his later work on Superman proved to be, but the book feels like endless episodes of Byrne trying to show that he's clever and failing at it. "Oh, look, superheroes are NEVER seen changing their hairstyles in comics. Look how much more real my comic is" while Sue Richards has the body of a supermodel while several months pregnant. "Oh gee, why would the Fantastic Four live at The Baxter Building where they'd always be targets for attacks? Let's be more real and logical by moving them to the suburbs and creating an overly complex and time-consuming way in which Reed can check in at the Baxter Building once a week or so" while conveniently nothing attacks New York or the world in their absence after years of continuous threats. The whole thing just feels far far less clever than Byrne thinks he's being, and the characterizations and plots aren't doing much for me either.
I'm seriously considering dropping the run and selling it off if She-Hulk's addition doesn't shake things up.
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Post by kirby101 on Nov 23, 2024 10:58:32 GMT -5
I'm seriously considering dropping the run and selling it off if She-Hulk's addition doesn't shake things up. It doesn't, you have alread read the "best" of his FFs. |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,874
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Post by shaxper on Nov 23, 2024 11:23:43 GMT -5
I'm seriously considering dropping the run and selling it off if She-Hulk's addition doesn't shake things up. It doesn't, you have alread read the "best" of his FFs. Yikes. What did I miss? The intergalactic trial that raised an important ethical question which was immediately resolved through the magic of instantaneous cosmic insight? |
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Post by Batflunkie on Nov 23, 2024 11:41:12 GMT -5
Still forcing my way through John Byrne's run on Fantastic Four because so many have sweared by it. I'm pretty far in--She Hulk joins next issue--and I'm still not seeing the appeal. No, it's nowhere near the trainwreck that much of his later work on Superman proved to be, but the book feels like endless episodes of Byrne trying to show that he's clever and failing at it. "Oh, look, superheroes are NEVER seen changing their hairstyles in comics. Look how much more real my comic is" while Sue Richards has the body of a supermodel while several months pregnant. "Oh gee, why would the Fantastic Four live at The Baxter Building where they'd always be targets for attacks? Let's be more real and logical by moving them to the suburbs and creating an overly complex and time-consuming way in which Reed can check in at the Baxter Building once a week or so" while conveniently nothing attacks New York or the world in their absence after years of continuous threats. The whole thing just feels far far less clever than Byrne thinks he's being, and the characterizations and plots aren't doing much for me either. I'm seriously considering dropping the run and selling it off if She-Hulk's addition doesn't shake things up. Kirby's FF didn't do much for me (I enjoyed it for what it was, but it didn't speak to me like Thor and Cap did) and I went in hoping that Byrne's run would change my mind. It really didn't... |
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Post by kirby101 on Nov 23, 2024 12:00:05 GMT -5
Each to his own. I found Kirby's FF run one of the greatest periods of scifi creation we have seen. And that is not just for comic books.
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Post by Batflunkie on Nov 23, 2024 12:06:06 GMT -5
Each to his own. I found Kirby's FF run one of the greatest periods of scifi creation we have seen. And that is not just for comic books. It's one of those series, much like Gibson's Neuromancer, where it has it's fingerprints over everything that followed. I am curious to see how well Disney does with their FF movie |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,874
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Post by shaxper on Nov 23, 2024 12:07:36 GMT -5
Still forcing my way through John Byrne's run on Fantastic Four because so many have sweared by it. I'm pretty far in--She Hulk joins next issue--and I'm still not seeing the appeal. No, it's nowhere near the trainwreck that much of his later work on Superman proved to be, but the book feels like endless episodes of Byrne trying to show that he's clever and failing at it. "Oh, look, superheroes are NEVER seen changing their hairstyles in comics. Look how much more real my comic is" while Sue Richards has the body of a supermodel while several months pregnant. "Oh gee, why would the Fantastic Four live at The Baxter Building where they'd always be targets for attacks? Let's be more real and logical by moving them to the suburbs and creating an overly complex and time-consuming way in which Reed can check in at the Baxter Building once a week or so" while conveniently nothing attacks New York or the world in their absence after years of continuous threats. The whole thing just feels far far less clever than Byrne thinks he's being, and the characterizations and plots aren't doing much for me either. I'm seriously considering dropping the run and selling it off if She-Hulk's addition doesn't shake things up. Kirby's FF didn't do much for me (I enjoyed it for what it was, but it didn't speak to me like Thor and Cap did) and I went in hoping that Byrne's run would change my mind. It really didn't... I think it was definitely uneven, but the high points were unforgettable explosions of imagination. When I pushed myself through that run a few years back for similar reasons, there were dry spells, but there was so much awesome that I soon forgot them. I don't think there's been a single issue in the Byrne run yet that's fully wowed me. Some have had awesome elements quickly undone by stupid elements alongside them, I guess. |
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Post by Batflunkie on Nov 23, 2024 12:11:52 GMT -5
Kirby's FF didn't do much for me (I enjoyed it for what it was, but it didn't speak to me like Thor and Cap did) and I went in hoping that Byrne's run would change my mind. It really didn't... I think it was definitely uneven, but the high points were unforgettable explosions of imagination. When I pushed myself through that run a few years back for similar reasons, there were dry spells, but there was so much awesome that I soon forgot them. I don't think there's been a single issue in the Byrne run yet that's fully wowed me. Some have had awesome elements quickly undone by stupid elements alongside them, I guess. I think I read up to the introduction of Black Panther? Like I said, I thought it was good, but just not my thing |
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Post by Icctrombone on Nov 23, 2024 13:29:00 GMT -5
Still forcing my way through John Byrne's run on Fantastic Four because so many have sweared by it. I'm pretty far in--She Hulk joins next issue--and I'm still not seeing the appeal. No, it's nowhere near the trainwreck that much of his later work on Superman proved to be, but the book feels like endless episodes of Byrne trying to show that he's clever and failing at it. "Oh, look, superheroes are NEVER seen changing their hairstyles in comics. Look how much more real my comic is" while Sue Richards has the body of a supermodel while several months pregnant. "Oh gee, why would the Fantastic Four live at The Baxter Building where they'd always be targets for attacks? Let's be more real and logical by moving them to the suburbs and creating an overly complex and time-consuming way in which Reed can check in at the Baxter Building once a week or so" while conveniently nothing attacks New York or the world in their absence after years of continuous threats. The whole thing just feels far far less clever than Byrne thinks he's being, and the characterizations and plots aren't doing much for me either. I'm seriously considering dropping the run and selling it off if She-Hulk's addition doesn't shake things up. I too have read some of the Byrne run in the last few months and found a lot of it doesn't hold up. I feel like certain arcs are great like: Galactus vs Everyone /Origin of Frankie ray # 242-244 Man and Superman 249-250 Doom and Terrax face off against the FF 258-260 The Trail of Reed Richards 261-262 Kristoff attacks the FF and destroys the Baxter Building 278,279 The rest of the series was ok superhero books, certainly not to be compared with the Lee/Kirby run. I thought FF from 100-150 to be better than the Byrne run. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Nov 23, 2024 13:47:19 GMT -5
Byrne was THE superstar artist in the industry and he got acclaim anywhere he went. He was given the FF title because he couldn't get along with Claremont. It doesn't mean he was a great writer but they were trying to keep him happy. For the period of 1978-1990, he was a sure sales draw to any book he was attached to. For the record, I thought he did a fine job with Superman but he was immediately undermined by a Legends crossover. I could think of 3 industry moves that were game changers,
Kirby going to DC in 1972
Byrne going to DC in 1986 and
Brian Micheal Bendis to Dc in 2017
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Post by chaykinstevens on Nov 23, 2024 14:23:02 GMT -5
Kirby going to DC in 1972 Byrne going to DC in 1986 and Brian Micheal Bendis to Dc in 2017 Kirby went to DC in 1970. |
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Post by Ricky Jackson on Nov 23, 2024 15:01:24 GMT -5
I'm a huge FF fan and have been since I was a kid in the 80s. My first exposure would've been during the Byrne run, but I didn't read the whole thing until the late 90s. I first encountered the Kirby years through Marvel Saga, which I was enthralled by even in the chopped up, abridged manner that the material was presented in that book. Like with the Byrne run, I didn't go through it in full (well, up to issue 60) until the late-90s. I only got around to reading the 70s era (up to 183 or so) in the last 3-4 years.
I would rank the Kirby to Bryne years like this... (minus 184-231 which I've read very little)
1. Kirby-Lee. It tapers off the last 10 or so issues, but I love most of this run. I'm a Silver Age nut though
2. Roy Thomas' 70s work. It may be recency bias, but I had a blast with his 2nd run from the mid-150s to 180s, especially the story starting with the Hulk, leading to Benjy losing his powers, through a long Impossible Man/Frightful Four/evil Reed from Counter Earth arc. And I liked Thomas' brief first run in the 120s-130s much more than Conway's subsequent longer run tbh
3. Byrne, up to around 262. I haven't revisited these issues in about 25 years. I was once a massive Byrne fan but his work doesn't do much for me as a 40-something. Still, even during the peak of my Byrne love, my opinion was that the first 30 or so issues of his FF run are definitely fun and worth reading, the last 30 or so issues, not so much
4. Conway. There were some highlights, but overall, I struggled to make it through to the end of his run
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Post by driver1980 on Nov 23, 2024 15:17:45 GMT -5
3. Byrne, up to around 262. I haven't revisited these issues in about 25 years. I was once a massive Byrne fan but his work doesn't do much for me as a 40-something. Still, even during the peak of my Byrne love, my opinion was that the first 30 or so issues of his FF run are definitely fun and worth reading, the last 30 or so issues, not so much I’d agree with that. I did quite like the story where Dr. Octopus had a confrontation with the FF, although it was hardly the big battle I thought it might be. I did like it for the most part, though. |
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Post by Batflunkie on Nov 23, 2024 15:21:08 GMT -5
Conway. There were some highlights, but overall, I struggled to make it through to the end of his run Conway feels more like a "greatest hits DJ" than an actual comic book writer judging by my read through of his Thor run. I have to wonder how much of that was from editorial mandates because it just feels more by-the-numbers/market-tested than anything |
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