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Post by Hoosier X on Oct 20, 2014 16:02:39 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm with you - Unless their are some hidden classics that I'm missing, I'd call Wonder Woman the weakest of the Silver Age DC superhero titles. I'm not sure about Kanigher being anti-women, though? Didn't he write most (all?) of the Madmoiselle Marie strips? I really dig those, and they struck me as being quite progressively feminist for the early '60s. Maybe I went a it far by saying "openly contemptuous." Maybe I should have said "apathetic"?
I don't think I've ever read any Mlle. Marie stories, unless you count the stories in Detective Comics where she had an affair with Alfred and their daughter was a supporting character for a while in the 1980s.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Oct 20, 2014 16:08:21 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm with you - Unless their are some hidden classics that I'm missing, I'd call Wonder Woman the weakest of the Silver Age DC superhero titles. I'm not sure about Kanigher being anti-women, though? Didn't he write most (all?) of the Madmoiselle Marie strips? I really dig those, and they struck me as being quite progressively feminist for the early '60s. Maybe I went a it far by saying "openly contemptuous." Maybe I should have said "apathetic"?
I don't think I've ever read any Mlle. Marie stories, unless you count the stories in Detective Comics where she had an affair with Alfred and their daughter was a supporting character for a while in the 1980s.
What?!?! Whoah. I was hoping their was a showcase or something - I've only read a handful of Marie stories myself, but I really like them. (And she's a major player in possibly my favorite Brave and the Bold team-up. But no such luck. But "apathetic" is a good way to put it. It's interesting how many revamps the Kanigher Wonder Woman had, and how the book never seemed to get any better.
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Post by gothos on Oct 21, 2014 16:00:01 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm with you - Unless their are some hidden classics that I'm missing, I'd call Wonder Woman the weakest of the Silver Age DC superhero titles. I'm not sure about Kanigher being anti-women, though? Didn't he write most (all?) of the Madmoiselle Marie strips? I really dig those, and they struck me as being quite progressively feminist for the early '60s. Yes, I'd agree that Kanigher had a generally feminist attitude-- but only for his own characters. His tenure on LOIS LANE was much shorter than his WONDER WOMAN, but the former shows the same characteristics as the latter; mostly routine, formulaic stories, including the one that has earned some repute not because it's a great story but because it touches a lot of nerves. I'm of course talking about "I Am Curious Black!" Yet, at the same time that Kanigher was doing these mostly bland Lois tales, he also did the backup ROSE AND THE THORN, in which the heroine is about as kickass as you can get. I have seen one critic complain about her schizophrenia and how her outfit supposedly made Thorn look like a hooker, but you can't please everyone.
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Post by Hoosier X on Oct 21, 2014 16:05:07 GMT -5
I completely forgot that Kanigher did Rose and Thorn. I've read five or six of them and they really kick butt.
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Post by gothos on Oct 21, 2014 16:16:27 GMT -5
The series also boasts some of Dick Giordano's best art, alongside the nearly forgotten SARGE STEEL from Charlton.
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Oct 21, 2014 16:52:11 GMT -5
I wouldn't call Kanigher's Lois Lane stories bland, I think they're awesome. Aweosmely insane, that is. I Am Curious Black in #106 gets all the press, but the stories in #110 and #111 are just as bizarre. Best Lois era ever in my opinion. Kanigher was also responsible for "Lady Cop," which has an interesting (if typically weird) feminist slant. His Wonder Woman is still terrible, though.
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Post by Hoosier X on Oct 21, 2014 16:56:50 GMT -5
I wouldn't call Kanigher's Lois Lane stories bland, I think they're awesome. Aweosmely insane, that is. I Am Curious Black in #106 gets all the press, but the stories in #110 and #111 are just as bizarre. Best Lois era ever in my opinion. Kanigher was also responsible for "Lady Cop," which has an interesting (if typically weird) feminist slant. His Wonder Woman is still terrible, though. I want this so bad!
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Golddragon71
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Post by Golddragon71 on Oct 30, 2014 23:12:39 GMT -5
I like the Linda Carter Series when it was set in the War Years but the "Modern Day" setting in the later seasons kinda killed it for me. I am a fan of the post Crisis Wonder Woman but the continuity headaches created by making her debut coincide with Legends rather than have her career start some five or so years earlier (As Superman's had in Byrne's Man of Steel-on) hurt her to some degree. (plus, I never understood how Black Canary could fill in for her in some of the JLA's early missions i.e.: Starro) As far as the animated version goes, while I think they had her character down pretty well, I wasn't crazy about her stealing the suit. Instead, I would have much preferred to see her just appear during the League's formative skirmish in Secret Origins and had a two-parter air later on the could have been a more faithful (if slightly altered) origin.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Oct 31, 2014 17:27:24 GMT -5
I can hardly tell you how much I love Marston/Peter Wonder Woman from the 1940s. The more I read, the more I like Diana's original stories. My library has Wonder Woman Archives, Vol. 1, and I read it a few months ago, and those stories are so much better when you read them in order and see how quickly the elements of the earliest years developed. Etta Candy and the Holliday Girls are hysterical! And then there's Baroness Paula von Gunther! So evil! So slimy! And one of my favorite Golden Age stories of all time is the first appearance of the Cheetah, from Wonder Woman #6, which I saw in an over-sized reprint in the 1970s. The Mod Era is pretty awesome too, mostly for the art. (My library has Volume 1 and Volume 4 of the Mod Era stories, and of course I've read those. Would really like to read the rest of them eventually.) These are wordy, wordy, wordy, but soooo far above everything else that's been done with the character that it's... well, downright depressing. It's the combination of Marston's enjoyably crackpot social theories, his crazy imagination (Giant space kangaroos! Amazon pie torture!) Peter's somehow classical-but-still-cartoony art, and having a superheroine who thinks that being a superheroine is FUN that nails it for me. Also Etta Candy. Although I think there's an ocean sized gulf in between them, quality-wise, my NEXT favorite run is Greg Rucka's stuff circa 2004. Surpisingly un-dreary, decently plotted modern superhero comics - although marred by not-great-art by a guy I don't remember. I really like the first couple issues of the Azzerrello/Chiang run but lost interst around #4 and haven't even bothered getting the rest out of the library.
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Post by gothos on Nov 4, 2014 15:31:34 GMT -5
Anyone have a take on the Gail Simone run?
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Post by fanboystranger on Nov 4, 2014 16:25:19 GMT -5
Anyone have a take on the Gail Simone run? With that cavaet that I'm not that big of a Wonder Woman fan in general and I did not read every issue, I picked it up on the strength of Gail Simone's name on the cover, and I was pretty disappointed. Gail has a unique voice, but her WW read like any other superhero comic (and a fairly boring one at that). I think Gail works best on marginal characters where her personality and sense of humor can shine through, and her WW (and Batgirl, for that matter) did not fall into that category. Art was iffy in spots, too. (Not a fan of the Dodsons, and this wasn't Lopresti's finest work.)
I think her Red Sonja run is more what I would have liked to see out of her WW run. It's a lot more "Gail" in tone. Obviously, different genres and different expectations, but there's more personality there.
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Post by berkley on Nov 4, 2014 17:22:10 GMT -5
With that cavaet that I'm not that big of a Wonder Woman fan in general and I did not read every issue, I picked it up on the strength of Gail Simone's name on the cover, and I was pretty disappointed. Gail has a unique voice, but her WW read like any other superhero comic (and a fairly boring one at that). I think Gail works best on marginal characters where her personality and sense of humor can shine through, and her WW (and Batgirl, for that matter) did not fall into that category. Art was iffy in spots, too. (Not a fan of the Dodsons, and this wasn't Lopresti's finest work.)
I think her Red Sonja run is more what I would have liked to see out of her WW run. It's a lot more "Gail" in tone. Obviously, different genres and different expectations, but there's more personality there.
I don't know a lot about WW either, but I did look at Gail Simone run now and then because I was an occasional poster on the CBR forum she was moderating at the time. I probably didn't see enough to have a real opinion - it was pretty much looking at online previews - but the one impression I do recall is that the writing seemed almost too reverential towards the title character, to the point that the other characters were made to look a bit lame in comparison. OTOH, you could argue that this sort of thing is or has become pretty standard for superhero comics in general and the other two big DC icons, Batman and Superman, in particular, so why shouldn't the third member of the DC triumvirate get equal treatment. Not the kind of approach I like to see in the comics I read, though.
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Post by gothos on Nov 4, 2014 17:23:07 GMT -5
Anyone have a take on the Gail Simone run? With that cavaet that I'm not that big of a Wonder Woman fan in general and I did not read every issue, I picked it up on the strength of Gail Simone's name on the cover, and I was pretty disappointed. Gail has a unique voice, but her WW read like any other superhero comic (and a fairly boring one at that). I think Gail works best on marginal characters where her personality and sense of humor can shine through, and her WW (and Batgirl, for that matter) did not fall into that category. Art was iffy in spots, too. (Not a fan of the Dodsons, and this wasn't Lopresti's finest work.)
I think her Red Sonja run is more what I would have liked to see out of her WW run. It's a lot more "Gail" in tone. Obviously, different genres and different expectations, but there's more personality there.
I think your take on Simone in general is on target, though I differ in that I think she does reflect her writer-persona pretty well in the New 52 Batgirl. I can understand that it's not to all tastes, though.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Nov 4, 2014 18:30:23 GMT -5
I don't know a lot about WW either, but I did look at Gail Simone run now and then because I was an occasional poster on the CBR forum she was moderating at the time. I probably didn't see enough to have a real opinion - it was pretty much looking at online previews - but the one impression I do recall is that the writing seemed almost too reverential towards the title character, to the point that the other characters were made to look a bit lame in comparison. OTOH, you could argue that this sort of thing is or has become pretty standard for superhero comics in general and the two big DC icons, Batman and Superman, in particular, so why shouldn't the third member of the DC triumvirate get equal treatment. Not the kind of approach I like to see in the comics I read, though. I'd agree with that. I liked some of the stuff she was doing with her secondary characters, but her Wonder Woman was kind of an idealized version of Your Mother.... and so boring. As a fan of her stuff, I'd say this was Simone's weakest work. ( Killer Princesses and Welcome to Tranquility being the strongest.)
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Post by badwolf on Jan 16, 2015 14:57:23 GMT -5
I haven't read much Wonder Woman. Surprisingly, neither Perez nor Byrne got me to pick up her book, but I did start reading Phil Jimenez's run when Roy Allan Martinez was doing the art (and later Jimenez himself.) (It may have also helped that Adam Hughes was doing the covers.) I'm a sucker for villain teams, and in this arc a new iteration of Villainy, Inc. had taken over Skartaris. Meanwhile in the backup the new Angle Man was flirting with Donna Troy and Barbara Minerva was making a bid to reclaim the role of the Cheetah from its male usurper. Good stuff, but I dropped it when Jimenez went off the book.
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