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Post by tonebone on Jul 29, 2020 16:40:32 GMT -5
It was a dispute involving art from that wedding issue of Superboy #200 that led Dave Cockrum to move to Marvel. He had been recently married and wanted the splash panel of Bouncing Boy and Duo Damsel back I think. DC couldn't seem to handle such a request... so crazy. Lightning Lad and Saturn Girl married in the second giant tabloid sized Legion in the '70s with an all new Mike Grell drawn story. I must've been crazy to part with that and a number of other tabloid treasuries! If I recall correctly, he even offered to buy it back at the page rate they paid him to do it in the first place. It's insane they wouldn't do it, especially at a time when kids taking the regular tour of DC's offices were often GIFTED original art just for showing up.
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Post by String on Jul 30, 2020 15:35:48 GMT -5
I disagree. I recently finished reading 5YL and thoroughly enjoyed it, far more than I originally thought I would but that is probably due more to the efforts of Giffen.
Yes, back then, the Bierbaums were amateur fan writers and this is quickly apparent after Giffen's departure and they took over the full writing reigns of both Legion and Legionnaires titles. Although they were ably assisted by having Sprouse and Immonen as their artists, their work showed more basic plotting and quicker resolutions of arcs. However I wouldn't begrudge their work as being 'fan-fiction' given their long association with the Legion APAs. Apparently they were able to introduce some long-running fan theories into the series (such as Garth really being Proty all these years) or at least opened up the possibilities of such theories. Personally I don't mind for I don't have the long association with the series as they did dating back to the Silver Age. Judging by the letters pages, fans seemed evenly split over these ideas but good or bad, it got the fans talking, it raised interest in the franchise and that's always a good thing. I liked some of their choices especially bringing back Glorith. They turned a one-shot Silver Age villain into a major cosmic player who had lasting impact on the series and characters. Even with the help of Giffen, that's a pretty tall order to achieve successfully (for the most part).
As for Giffen, count me as a fan now. I said it before, the usage of nine panel gird is inspired and raises creativity by the artist having to be more focused on what to frame in each panel. Giffen's layered plotting and characterization was excellent as well. From Jo's personal journey and growth to how Venado Bay scarred both Rokk & Salu to the fall and fate of Dirk. Al Gordon did well with the Quiet Darkness sequel and the latter half of the run, Terra Mosiac, is just amazing. (I may never view the Subs as comic foibles ever again).
As for the kids, I'm glad that they really didn't say one way or the other whom may be the clones. They addressed it but never gave a definite answer (whether they actually had an answer to give or not, dunno). To me, that wasn't the biggest point about their appearance. It was highlighting the differences between the two groups of Legions. They are introduced to this dystopian landscape and their immediate response is that they can fix it! Their youthful optimism (representative of the Silver Age) was inspired and infectious, I loved the dichotomy.
Yes, there was stumbles and faults, delays and fill-in, but overall I think 5YL is a highlight of the franchise, youths who are now grown and facing adult decisions and consequences. Frankly, I'm flummoxed that this run hasn't been reprinted in some form or fashion by now.
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Post by dbutler69 on Jul 31, 2020 10:03:27 GMT -5
I disagree with your disagreement. I'm reading through every Legion story and the Giffen/Bierbaum Legion is by far my least favorite. It reads like fan fiction, and not very good fan fiction at that. Plus, Giffen's art is awful, and he'd gotten lazy. So many pages with no art, just dialogue, and so many panels with somebody's face hidden in shadow. Giffen must have hated drawing faces. This guy used to be so meticulous and detailed, and then he became this! The Giffbaum Legion was also way to dark and depressing for me. The only good thing about it was Tenzil Kem. Dude was awesome! Apparently DC agreed since they used Zero Hour as an excuse to blow it up and start all over. Thank God for that.
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Post by beccabear67 on Jul 31, 2020 12:06:40 GMT -5
Giffen got very weird later, a panel with a close up of someone's feet or something sitting on a table nearby, lots of figures in total darkness silhouette. The minimalism started on the Legion and then he applied it more and more to Ambush Bug with Superman, and Hex, and everything. His is a name as artist I avoid now.
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Post by String on Aug 1, 2020 10:44:48 GMT -5
Yeah, I couldn't disagree more. Dark and depressing is two of the three words that I've always seen used to describe 5YL (confusing being the third). I've found it to be none of those.
No, my description would be mature. This was an adult Legion dealing with adult themes. It was a daring change of pace that I found engrossing and engaging.
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Post by dbutler69 on Sept 8, 2020 12:13:07 GMT -5
OK, here's an idea for a thread within a thread: Favorite Legion ImagesI wish I had thought of this idea about a year or so ago, when I started my project to read all of the Legion comics in order. Then I could have collected images in an orderly fashion, as I went along. Well, anyway, here are a few random beloved images:
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Post by beccabear67 on Sept 8, 2020 13:56:51 GMT -5
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Post by beccabear67 on Sept 8, 2020 14:07:28 GMT -5
Those George Perez covers could make you cry that he didn't do the interior art, but he was pretty busy with New Teen Titans and maybe Justice League then. I also still love this one Jim Aparo cover... and the insides were memorable as well.
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Post by dbutler69 on Sept 8, 2020 14:17:56 GMT -5
Those George Perez covers could make you cry that he didn't do the interior art, but he was pretty busy with New Teen Titans and maybe Justice League then. I also still love this one Jim Aparo cover... and the insides were memorable as well. Great choices! Perez is my absolute fave, and those covers bring back lost of good memories.
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Post by dbutler69 on Sept 9, 2020 11:37:50 GMT -5
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Post by dbutler69 on Sept 9, 2020 16:21:22 GMT -5
Very underrated art team, and I see that you chose two of the exact same images I was going to post later, as I was unable to post them from where I was earlier today. I'll get around to posting some more images in a couple of days.
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Post by beccabear67 on Sept 9, 2020 16:32:47 GMT -5
I saw at least one Dave Cockrum issue of Superboy & the Legion early on, though likely coverless, and just the look of his Timberwolf really struck me as very unique (later in #284 he got cosmetic surgery to go back to looking less unique). I also really liked Wildfire drawn by anyone, but he too was a Cockrum (and maybe Paty?) design... His Phantom Girl had a unique hairstyle that stood out, and I liked that early '70s flared white jumpsuit look too...
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Post by Prince Hal on Sept 9, 2020 18:10:14 GMT -5
Old school. The first Adventure Comics I ever bought. I still love this cover.
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Post by beccabear67 on Sept 9, 2020 21:38:07 GMT -5
Old school. The first Adventure Comics I ever bought. I still love this cover. The earliest cover with the Legion I had for a long time was the issue before that and I thought it was one of the best. Eventually I was lucky to find an affordable #300. I looked up a couple of Super-Pets moments, this moment seems memorable enough... we'll just forget about the revolt incident. Would love to add some sort of thought for Comet along the lines of "This gig better include a clean stable!"
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Post by dbutler69 on Sept 10, 2020 5:53:12 GMT -5
I saw at least one Dave Cockrum issue of Superboy & the Legion early on, though likely coverless, and just the look of his Timberwolf really struck me as very unique (later in #284 he got cosmetic surgery to go back to looking less unique). I also really liked Wildfire drawn by anyone, but he too was a Cockrum (and maybe Paty?) design... His Phantom Girl had a unique hairstyle that stood out, and I liked that early '70s flared white jumpsuit look too... Dave Cockrum is actually my favorite Legion artist.
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