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Post by driver1980 on Sept 21, 2024 11:36:20 GMT -5
It is a shame if that is true. You’d think reality - the bricks and mortar they see in front of them - would be a clue, as would the existence of things like business rates, rent, etc. But I’m sure you’re right. I have heard similar things about other industries. I don’t really use buses, but in my hometown, bus companies have held off price rises for a long time - even retaining some fares - but some increases were necessary. And you might read comments on FB pages such as, “Greedy bus companies, pure £4 profit from my ticket.” Erm, yes, and diesel needs to be paid for, plus bus driver salaries, maintenance, etc. I use a local hardware shop for my DIY needs, and one guy I knew said something like, “I can’t use them, they are so much more expensive than online stores.” Yes, but unlike a bored billionaire or two, the shop’s owner has to pay business rates, rent, carry visible stock, etc. Of course that wood cutting tool is going to be cheaper online, but being financially viable as a business isn’t optional for the hardware store owner I know of - he has to charge more. It's not just comics, we live in a world where many people expect reality to conform to their expectations rather than adjust their expectations to reality. If the reality doesn't conform to what they want it to be, they ignore it or shout down those who point out the reality. Denial is normative in many. -M Yes, I mean I have seen it in my life. In big and small ways, e.g. the passenger who expects me to reverse in a traffic jam in order to detour and save him time. When someone invents a vehicle that can do that, be sure to let me know! |
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Post by driver1980 on Sept 21, 2024 12:24:50 GMT -5
I’m not very good with analogies, but I thought about something earlier after seeing a picture of an old-style British pub on X.
I know there has been news and commentary on comic stores devoting a lot of space to other products like figurines, keyrings, cups, etc. And how necessary it has been because solely selling comics wouldn’t be viable.
At one time in the UK, the majority of pubs concentrated on alcoholic beverages and soft drinks. Snacks were limited, usually a pack of crisps, a pack of peanuts or a pre-packaged sandwich. Due to a shift in expectations, economic pressures and consumer preferences, a lot of pubs - even some quiet countryside pubs - shifted to hot food. In even the smallest pub, you may well have a choice of fish and chips, a burger, a jacket potato, steak and chips, etc. And some bigger pubs now have tea and coffee machines.
I’m not a retail or pub expert, but I have read that this has helped. The retired woman who may not like alcohol can meet a friend in a pub - and have a tea or coffee. The two guys meeting in order to drink lager may decide that a burger or steak will go along nicely with their pint of Guinness.
Pubs have definitely attracted a wider consumer base. I know of people who once rarely, if ever, ventured into a pub, but once food and tea/coffee became an option, it became something akin to a restaurant or cafe.
Now, there was some opposition to it. Not a lot, maybe, but some. A few “nostalgic” accounts on social media seemed to mourn the loss of a traditional, alcohol-only pub. Some felt that pubs offering food options meant longer queues for those who simply wanted to order a drink. Others felt that pubs shouldn’t be about food. These people may have been a minority (maybe), but they were very vocal.
Yet even to a non-expert like me, I know, as do a lot of others, why pubs shifted to food. Some landlords have spoken out about how good food sales have been for them, how it has attracted a wider consumer base, etc. And it goes beyond that: big pubs (maybe not small ones) have shifted to vegetarian and even vegan options, offering more choice. However, there is still a vocal minority - usually found on social media - who don’t seem to like it, and seem to want pubs to return to being alcohol venues only. Which does show a lack of understanding of the realities of economics.
As I said, I am not good at writing analogies or comparing things, but just as pubs shifted to food and a wider selection of drinks, comic stores no doubt shifted to a lot of other merchandise, yet there does seem to be a vocal minority who don’t get it. Which seems sad, and gets to the point of the denial of reality that we’ve been discussing.
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Post by supercat on Sept 22, 2024 7:12:58 GMT -5
EDIT: I'm done in this thread. Whatever.
I've been asking myself whether or not I should say anything to this and perhaps I'm just going to make things worse, but: just in case it was my post that prompted Supercat's edit here, I sincerely apologise if I said anything offensive. I really did have that idea for a thread quite a long time ago, it wasn't made up as a snide crack at Supercat's original post, which raised an entirely legitimate question. Since I didn't feel sure I could make it work but still felt some affection for the idea, I took the opportunity of the general subject of 'Like' coming up to share it.
I had another idea too for a "Likes"-related joke-thread: "I Have Discovered that I Can Like My Own Posts".
edit: which you actually can, as I just checked - I almost thought I must have dreamt that, but no!
You definitely didn't say anything that offended me, you're like one of the nicest people here, and the fact that you would reflect on "just in case" and say something nice is further evidence of that. But thank you genuinely for thinking of that, and I too think the "self-like" is funny, I remember discovering that! Nah, people just as usual didn't read the whole original post/context and started going on and on and it just got annoying to me so I bailed. It's fine, it happens. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2024 7:41:03 GMT -5
A comic book webstore won't be getting my business, at least straight away, if it doesn't have a paypal option. I really dislike having to input name, address, telephone contact and cc info on a site I know little or nothing about. So last night I was in a bad mood because I do want the webstore exclusive and it's not on ebay. Sending a snarky email doesn't help either. Expected a bit better from this British source.....grrrrr.....
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Post by driver1980 on Sept 22, 2024 8:00:21 GMT -5
A comic book webstore won't be getting my business, at least straight away, if it doesn't have a paypal option. I really dislike having to input name, address, telephone contact and cc info on a site I know little or nothing about. So last night I was in a bad mood because I do want the webstore exclusive and it's not on ebay. Sending a snarky email doesn't help either. Expected a bit better from this British source.....grrrrr..... It’s absurd not to have such an option. I’m of the belief that you make things as easy for consumers as possible. Even in my profession, I’ll offer passengers a card option, whereas some don’t. I went to a book fair years ago and one stall owner didn’t have card options. He was the only one. And I did notice some people complaining to him about it. Thing is, although I take cash to book fairs, you can run out of cash if there’s a lot there that you like, which is why you then fall back on the debit card option. (And this was in a village hall which was in a semi-rural area where ATMs weren’t a thing) |
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Post by tartanphantom on Sept 22, 2024 8:51:16 GMT -5
A comic book webstore won't be getting my business, at least straight away, if it doesn't have a paypal option. I really dislike having to input name, address, telephone contact and cc info on a site I know little or nothing about. So last night I was in a bad mood because I do want the webstore exclusive and it's not on ebay. Sending a snarky email doesn't help either. Expected a bit better from this British source.....grrrrr..... It’s absurd not to have such an option. I’m of the belief that you make things as easy for consumers as possible. Even in my profession, I’ll offer passengers a card option, whereas some don’t. I went to a book fair years ago and one stall owner didn’t have card options. He was the only one. And I did notice some people complaining to him about it. Thing is, although I take cash to book fairs, you can run out of cash if there’s a lot there that you like, which is why you then fall back on the debit card option. (And this was in a village hall which was in a semi-rural area where ATMs weren’t a thing)
Speaking from experience, your last sentence just described three-quarters of the villages between Inverness and Glasgow.  |
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Post by supercat on Sept 22, 2024 11:02:38 GMT -5
Still one of the most stunning Spidey covers I've ever seen.  |
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Post by Batflunkie on Sept 22, 2024 11:18:05 GMT -5
Still one of the most stunning Spidey covers I've ever seen. Definitely on the list of "covers that I want to see on t-shirts" and I'm not even that much of a spidey guy |
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jtrw2024
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Post by jtrw2024 on Sept 22, 2024 11:32:08 GMT -5
Still one of the most stunning Spidey covers I've ever seen. Charles Vess' Spider-man Spirits of the Earth GN is one of my favourites. Spidey is in his original red-and-blue costume, but I think the images in it are just as good as that Web of Spider-man cover. I always liked Vess' style, and would have liked some more mainstream superhero stuff from him over the years, even just covers! |
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Post by supercat on Sept 22, 2024 11:39:10 GMT -5
Still one of the most stunning Spidey covers I've ever seen. Charles Vess' Spider-man Spirits of the Earth GN is one of my favourites. Spidey is in his original red-and-blue costume, but I think the images in it are just as good as that Web of Spider-man cover. I always liked Vess' style, and would have liked some more mainstream superhero stuff from him over the years, even just covers! Yeah, Vess of course is just a great artist and agreed, lots of great art in that one too. I've always felt the same way, would have liked some more mainstream superhero stuff as well! |
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Post by driver1980 on Sept 22, 2024 17:46:23 GMT -5
Still one of the most stunning Spidey covers I've ever seen. That comic will be celebrating its fortieth anniversary next year, so I’m sure we may well look at and discuss this again! |
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Post by rich on Sept 23, 2024 5:05:48 GMT -5
A $3.99 comic that sells 50K copies yields the publisher approximately $200K of revenue from sales (ads would provide more). Standard page rate of $200 per page for 20 pages for a penciller ($4K, $100 per page for writer & inker each (another $4K) and probably $100 combined for letterer & colorist ($2K) means it costs about $10K of that goes to creators. Cover artists make a higher page rate, so that could be another $1-2K depending how many variants you are commissioning. The other $185-190K is split towards paying editorial & production staff, publishing, marketing, support staff, rent, etc. that no single title has to cover but gets paid form the entire line. $200k for the publisher from 50k sales? What about the retailer's share? What about the distributor's share? By the way, I feel sorry for those inkers that take a day per page 😬 I'm surprised so many artists can afford to work in comics in modern day America. They must survive on sales of original art... except those that work digital. Yikes. Sales related bonuses? Somehow they make ends meet. |
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Post by MRPs_Missives on Sept 23, 2024 7:24:32 GMT -5
You're right, my bad, I goofed, it's $50K for the publisher, so it's $35-$40K after paying creators.
So $50K is the publishers take, $50K to the various distributors, (these would be solid & dependable because books are sold on a non-returnable basis, and $100K (give or take depending on retailer discounts to end customers, unsold copies, prices paid for premium buy in variants, etc.) split among the various retailers. That said, distributors probably also make money on handling fees for shipping which would add to the retailer costs that their take would have to cover.
Apologies, I got distracted while posting what you quoted and oopsed that step.
You are seeing fewer dedicated inkers in modern comics and more artists who do full art (especially when they are working digitally. And as I said, many creators usually have other forms of income-many teach art courses at local colleges or universities including many who have have faculty positions at places like the Joe Kubert School (there are several art schools now w/o the pedigree but built on that model, many do storyboiarding for films, television, etc. take private commissions, sell sketchbooks, have patreon accounts, etc. etc. Some do generate revenue form original art sales. Some get residuals and reprint fees from trade paperbacks, etc. but no one is getting rich doing comics. Making ends meet, possibly, but not getting rich.
-M
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Post by impulse on Sept 23, 2024 14:52:13 GMT -5
I want to thank you guys for the truly fascinating deep dive into the nuts and bolts these last few pages. I've seen parts of this mentioned many times over the years, but it really is fascinating (and shocking) to see it all written out.
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Post by Duragizer on Sept 23, 2024 15:28:01 GMT -5
Still one of the most stunning Spidey covers I've ever seen. Charles Vess' Spider-man Spirits of the Earth GN is one of my favourites. Spidey is in his original red-and-blue costume, but I think the images in it are just as good as that Web of Spider-man cover. I always liked Vess' style, and would have liked some more mainstream superhero stuff from him over the years, even just covers! I've been meaning to read that one. I'm only familiar with Vess from his backup story "Cry of the Wendigo" from ASM #277, and I've been wanting to check out more of his stuff.  |
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