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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 14, 2021 11:23:19 GMT -5
It's down to pure ego. All three walked away from the Big Two for independence and artistic control. They have had opportunities to work for major money and have taken independence over cash. The only scenario where I see this happening is one, they bury the hatchet and agree to work together; and, two, there is a reason beyond financial gain, like a charity benefit.
Moore has a 5 book contract to fulfill, so he is tied up for a long time. At least a decade, if not two.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2021 11:36:48 GMT -5
It's down to pure ego. All three walked away from the Big Two for independence and artistic control. They have had opportunities to work for major money and have taken independence over cash. The only scenario where I see this happening is one, they bury the hatchet and agree to work together; and, two, there is a reason beyond financial gain, like a charity benefit. Moore has a 5 book contract to fulfill, so he is tied up for a long time. At least a decade, if not two. And since the whole thing's thematic underpinnings revolve around Alan Moore's take on super-heroes as the person he was in the early-mid-90s, even if someone else ties continues it and wraps up the loose end plotlines or even if Moore came back and wrote a finish now, it wouldn't actually complete what was set out to do when it was started since no one can recapture Moore's views/takes on super-heroes from that time period, not even Moore himself, so whatever continuation would be made would be completely unsatisfying and be of a different nature than the piece it was trying to finish. The headspace and creative impetus that forged those issues is long gone and cannot be recaptured, so I for one would be completely uninterested in seeing someone try. -M
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Post by tonebone on Sept 14, 2021 17:13:53 GMT -5
The Heck+Palmer combo did a pretty good Neal Adams impersonation in X-Men #64, the issue that introduced Sunfire. I'm guessing that a lot of Palmer, because if Heck could do that himself, he'd probably do it more often. But I do like the Heck run of Avengers. I'm reading the Heck Avengers now, and the drawing is pretty damn solid. The inking--whether by himself or others--is okay for the time. I read somewhere that during that period, Heck was considered by his contemporaries at Marvel as the best among them. He was simply not that popular with the fans, as time went on.
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Post by tonebone on Sept 14, 2021 17:17:10 GMT -5
I'm not sure if there was a bigger missed opportunity during the Marvel Age than X-Men #12--the infamous Kirby layout finished by Alex Toth. It's really not a bad art job, but why hire Toth for one issue (I'm sure there's an interesting backstory that I'm unaware of) only to have him finish over Kirby? Who looks at Toth's work and thinks he couldn't tell a story or be dynamic? Toth apparently didn't mind working over Kirby's layouts but he was so pissed over what Colletta did to his art, he swore he'd never work for Marvel again.
Cei-U! And he didn't!
I love Toth, but he was pretty extreme. That same day, he probably swore off bagels because of a sarcastic poppy seed, and swore off black socks because of a bit of fuzz that looked at him the wrong way.
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Post by Prince Hal on Sept 14, 2021 18:08:29 GMT -5
It's down to pure ego. All three walked away from the Big Two for independence and artistic control. They have had opportunities to work for major money and have taken independence over cash. The only scenario where I see this happening is one, they bury the hatchet and agree to work together; and, two, there is a reason beyond financial gain, like a charity benefit. Moore has a 5 book contract to fulfill, so he is tied up for a long time. At least a decade, if not two. You may (and probably do) know way more about these guys than I do, but I don't see pure ego as being the ultimate reason that one might want independence and artistic control.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2021 18:14:27 GMT -5
Mylite comic bags have gotten expensive. My dealer and I bought a large batch (over 100 packs) several years ago and the prices have more than doubled since.
There, I bagged a book.
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Post by Calidore on Sept 14, 2021 19:28:21 GMT -5
They are many years removed from when it was published. Maybe Moore has softened his stance. It would still help the co- creators , even now. But if he owns the rights, he could take the property anywhere he wants. It doesn't have to be DC. He owns one-third of the rights. You would also have to have Stephen Bissette and Rick Veitch on board. There was a hard push by some to get the issues collected and reprinted at Dynamite a few years back and it fell through because the parties involved weren't talking with each other to even try to get on the same page for it to get down. If they can't get together enough to collect what's already been done and get money for it, there's not much chance they're going to be able to be on the same page for new material to be completed. That window has closed and they have all moved on to other things, some outside comics at all. -M
I know Moore has added Bissette to his novel-length blacklist, but I hadn't heard of him having issues with Rick Veitch, and Veitch & Bissette are very old friends. Are there more roadblocks than just Moore being Moore?
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Post by Batflunkie on Sept 14, 2021 19:35:08 GMT -5
I would love if someone like maybe Kurt Busiek would write the final part to the Image series “1963”. I wanted to like 1963 -- I'm a big Alan Moore fan and an affectionate pastiche of Silver Age Marvel by him sounds right up my street. But you know what? I just found it really boring. I read it a lot as a kid with not much else to do and if I'm being totally honest, the only part of it that I really did like was Horus, Lord Of Light. This was of course years before I fell in love with Thor (after it got out of it's train-wreck status with Absorbing Man)
I still appreciate the idea behind it, but I think Big Bang Comics did the overall concept far better
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Post by berkley on Sept 14, 2021 20:59:05 GMT -5
It's down to pure ego. All three walked away from the Big Two for independence and artistic control. They have had opportunities to work for major money and have taken independence over cash. The only scenario where I see this happening is one, they bury the hatchet and agree to work together; and, two, there is a reason beyond financial gain, like a charity benefit. Moore has a 5 book contract to fulfill, so he is tied up for a long time. At least a decade, if not two. You may (and probably do) know way more about these guys than I do, but I don't see pure ego as being the ultimate reason that one might want independence and artistic control.
I was wondering about that too. Perhaps codystarbuck meant only that the dispute amongst the three creators is due to a clash of artistic egos?
Because I would see walking away from a safe corporate pay-cheque in order to preserve one's creative freedom and independance as a commendable thing to do. What, choosing not to spend the rest of your career producing more Superman stories for a huge business conglomerate makes you a prima donna now?
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 14, 2021 21:35:14 GMT -5
It's down to pure ego. All three walked away from the Big Two for independence and artistic control. They have had opportunities to work for major money and have taken independence over cash. The only scenario where I see this happening is one, they bury the hatchet and agree to work together; and, two, there is a reason beyond financial gain, like a charity benefit. Moore has a 5 book contract to fulfill, so he is tied up for a long time. At least a decade, if not two. You may (and probably do) know way more about these guys than I do, but I don't see pure ego as being the ultimate reason that one might want independence and artistic control. I didn't mean as the reason why they wanted artistic control of their work; rather, ego is at the center of their personal conflicts. The desire for artistic control and independence is a common trait, ; but, all three are also very uncompromising, which has a definite ego component, which as at least related to their split. I say ego, because mature adults should be able to work out their differences, unless ego is getting in the way, or unless there was real harm done by one to another. Veitch did work with Moore on the ABC line, with Greyshirt; so, I don't think they have much animosity, unless something happened during that time.
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Post by Prince Hal on Sept 14, 2021 21:44:06 GMT -5
You may (and probably do) know way more about these guys than I do, but I don't see pure ego as being the ultimate reason that one might want independence and artistic control. I didn't mean as the reason why they wanted artistic control of their work; rather, ego is at the center of their personal conflicts. The desire for artistic control and independence is a common trait, ; but, all three are also very uncompromising, which has a definite ego component, which as at least related to their split. I say ego, because mature adults should be able to work out their differences, unless ego is getting in the way, or unless there was real harm done by one to another. Veitch did work with Moore on the ABC line, with Greyshirt; so, I don't think they have much animosity, unless something happened during that time. Ah, I gotcha. Much more understandable, though unfortunate. Thanks, cody.
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Post by Icctrombone on Sept 17, 2021 7:27:34 GMT -5
I have recently been listening to a podcast about early Image comics and in a few of their casts, they have covered Deathmate. Deathmate is the infamous crossover between the two hottest companies of the early 90's , Image and Valiant. I have read it a few times over the years and the basic plot is- Solar and Void accidentally combine to create a new alternate universe and you get what is essentially, what if ? characters of the two universes. My question is , why didn't they just have the actual characters team up and write a plot around a threat they fight together? Late books aside, I think it would have been a much better product to have the actual Bloodshot, Gen 13, etc.
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Post by kirby101 on Sept 17, 2021 8:20:37 GMT -5
Because despite their success and their talent as artists, they were not very good writers.
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Post by impulse on Sept 17, 2021 9:40:33 GMT -5
It was't great when Marvel and DC did it, either and called it Amalgalm.
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Post by Batflunkie on Sept 17, 2021 10:24:56 GMT -5
It was't great when Marvel and DC did it, either and called it Amalgalm. Ehhh, I thought it was alright. Liked Super-Soldier well enough, but then again, I'm a sucker for anything Captain America related
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