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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2021 11:09:12 GMT -5
I'm not against slabbed books, I can appreciate the niche, but some of the 9.8 purists who go around with their noses in the air thinking anything less is rubbish are really a bunch of prima-donna idiots.
You see them on youtube going through bouts of depression when the books they submitted for grading come back anything less than 9.8
Having said that, it's fun having fun with the purists....
I bought a 'raw' NM copy that I knew would do nicely on any slabbed market. It cost me $610 with shipping. My dealer got it graded with his CGC membership. It came back 9.8. I put it back out there and got $2000 for it because 9.8 gives it a 'premium' that the niche goes crazy for. It's listed on ebay for over $3k by a couple of sellers so mine was a great deal and it sold quickly. But now I can afford another raw copy for my own collection and have enough left over for some fun shopping.
Thank you 9.8 fetishists.....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2021 11:13:25 GMT -5
I'm not against slabbed books, I can appreciate the niche, but some of the 9.8 purists who go around with their noses in the air thinking anything less is rubbish are really a bunch of prima-donna idiots. You see them on youtube going through bouts of depression when the books they submitted for grading come back anything less than 9.8 Having said that, it's fun having fun with the purists.... I bought a 'raw' NM copy that I knew would do nicely on any slabbed market. It cost me $610 with shipping. My dealer got it graded with his CGC membership. It came back 9.8. I put it back out there and got $2000 for it because 9.8 gives it a 'premium' that the niche goes crazy for. It's listed on ebay for over $3k by a couple of sellers so mine was a great deal and it sold quickly. But now I can afford another raw copy for my own collection and have enough left over for some fun shopping. Thank you 9.8 fetishists.....
They are certainly driving the price divide between high end books and reading grades, and if the end result is more affordable books at lower grades, I am ok with it, but yeah the 9.8 or nothing crowd is a mindset that would have zero overlap with my own in Venn diagram of collecting habits. -M
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Post by tartanphantom on Jun 8, 2021 13:18:32 GMT -5
I'm not against slabbed books, I can appreciate the niche, but some of the 9.8 purists who go around with their noses in the air thinking anything less is rubbish are really a bunch of prima-donna idiots. You see them on youtube going through bouts of depression when the books they submitted for grading come back anything less than 9.8 Having said that, it's fun having fun with the purists.... I bought a 'raw' NM copy that I knew would do nicely on any slabbed market. It cost me $610 with shipping. My dealer got it graded with his CGC membership. It came back 9.8. I put it back out there and got $2000 for it because 9.8 gives it a 'premium' that the niche goes crazy for. It's listed on ebay for over $3k by a couple of sellers so mine was a great deal and it sold quickly. But now I can afford another raw copy for my own collection and have enough left over for some fun shopping. Thank you 9.8 fetishists.....
They are certainly driving the price divide between high end books and reading grades, and if the end result is more affordable books at lower grades, I am ok with it, but yeah the 9.8 or nothing crowd is a mindset that would have zero overlap with my own in Venn diagram of collecting habits. -M
I submitted a copy of your comment to CGC and it came back with only a 9.6 grade... I'm so disheartened-- life is over now.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2021 13:39:56 GMT -5
They are certainly driving the price divide between high end books and reading grades, and if the end result is more affordable books at lower grades, I am ok with it, but yeah the 9.8 or nothing crowd is a mindset that would have zero overlap with my own in Venn diagram of collecting habits. -M I submitted a copy of your comment to CGC and it came back with only a 9.6 grade... I'm so disheartened-- life is over now. That crowd does seem to allow some wiggle room for older material, and I definitely qualify as older material, so I might get cut some slack. But I'd also get the qualified label for some restoration. -M
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Crimebuster
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Making comics!
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Post by Crimebuster on Jun 8, 2021 16:10:03 GMT -5
There's a saying on the CGC forums: buy the book, not the label. There are plenty of 9.8s that should be 9.6s, and vice versa. Its so randomly subjective that the premium for a 9.8 is goofy.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 9, 2021 9:37:24 GMT -5
I have literally zero experience with grading, but was is the difference supposed to be? I mean, sure CGC has some sort of written standard? Or does an 'expert' just look at it and say 'yup 9.8!'
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2021 9:55:11 GMT -5
There's a saying on the CGC forums: buy the book, not the label. There are plenty of 9.8s that should be 9.6s, and vice versa. Its so randomly subjective that the premium for a 9.8 is goofy. This is one of my biggest pet peeves about comic book slabbing (among several others). We have this huge marketplace of buyers who don't know how/care to learn grading, and they are chasing a number. And eye appeal can be very subjective exactly to your point, I will pick a "lower grade" book any day of the week that may have a few more flaws technically but calls out to me more. That 9.X system (and all the modern "instant collectibles" it has supposedly created) is the biggest cash grab in the history of comic book collecting to me (geez I'm getting cynical in my old age!) I'll add a little more thought to this...I'm a coin/paper money collector as well. Slabbing became a big deal in this area before comic books. We said and say the same thing...judge the coin, not the grade on the holder. BUT...it's a field notorious for improper cleanings/alterations and counterfeits and other things that can challenge even very experienced graders. Plus the fact that you can appreciate coins and bank notes in their entirety in their holders unlike comic books, it has probably helped protect a lot of people over the years and still let them enjoy their hobby. But with comic books...people are literally putting an iron to an old comic book to up the eye appeal, sending it away to be encapsulated in a holder you can't open to take out and enjoy, and then hoping for a grading number that will go for big dollars with a speculator market. Not my cup of tea.
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Post by impulse on Jun 9, 2021 10:06:19 GMT -5
On the one hand, I can certainly see the cynical take about people finding more arbitrary ways to squeeze money out of people.
On the other hand, grading is an interesting and effective way to keep value and money into a dwindling niche market, and I do like that it keeps comics relevant.
That said, I don't know that I've ever seen a 9.8 book let alone would be able to recognize one if I saw one.
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Post by tarkintino on Jun 9, 2021 10:14:47 GMT -5
I think X-Factor was the beginning of the end for me. A bad idea that caused so many problems for the characters. Are you referring to the original X-Factor title from 1986?
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Post by badwolf on Jun 9, 2021 10:28:21 GMT -5
I think X-Factor was the beginning of the end for me. A bad idea that caused so many problems for the characters. Are you referring to the original X-Factor title from 1986? Yes.
The later title by Peter David was rather good (at least the first arc that I read.)
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jun 9, 2021 10:29:27 GMT -5
On the other hand, grading is an interesting and effective way to keep value and money into a dwindling niche market, and I do like that it keeps comics relevant. But does it do either of those things? I guess it does if you view comics as a collectible fetish item using the Franklin Mint business model. But it does nothing at all to help comics be what they are...which is an artform to be read. The grading does nothing to keep new comics being written, drawn, printed, etc. It does nothing to help the creators who actually produce the books. It's a completely arbitrary and artificial after-market construct. People can spend their money how they want. But I have zero interest in an oversized coaster that used to be a funnybook that someone decided was 2/10 of a point better than a different oversized coaster and therefore worth three times as much money. But then I have somewhere in the neighborhood of zero collector mentality and still think funnybooks are for reading.
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Crimebuster
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Making comics!
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Post by Crimebuster on Jun 9, 2021 10:43:24 GMT -5
I have literally zero experience with grading, but was is the difference supposed to be? I mean, sure CGC has some sort of written standard? Or does an 'expert' just look at it and say 'yup 9.8!' It's the latter. I assume they have some internal guidelines, but I don't believe they have ever published any specifics. Their published grade scale on the website is very vague. Originally they had 3 graders look at every book and the assigned grade was the aggregate. I've heard rumors they only have 1 person grade each book now due to volume but I don't know if that's true.
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Post by tartanphantom on Jun 9, 2021 10:47:58 GMT -5
On the other hand, grading is an interesting and effective way to keep value and money into a dwindling niche market, and I do like that it keeps comics relevant. But does it do either of those things? I guess it does if you view comics as a collectible fetish item using the Franklin Mint business model. But it does nothing at all to help comics be what they are...which is an artform to be read. The grading does nothing to keep new comics being written, drawn, printed, etc. It does nothing to help the creators who actually produce the books. It's a completely arbitrary and artificial after-market construct. People can spend their money how they want. But I have zero interest in an oversized coaster that used to be a funnybook that someone decided was 2/10 of a point better than a different oversized coaster and therefore worth three times as much money. But then I have somewhere in the neighborhood of zero collector mentality and still think funnybooks are for reading. This. Preach, brother.
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Post by impulse on Jun 9, 2021 11:07:29 GMT -5
On the other hand, grading is an interesting and effective way to keep value and money into a dwindling niche market, and I do like that it keeps comics relevant. But does it do either of those things? I guess it does if you view comics as a collectible fetish item using the Franklin Mint business model. But it does nothing at all to help comics be what they are...which is an artform to be read. The grading does nothing to keep new comics being written, drawn, printed, etc. It does nothing to help the creators who actually produce the books. It's a completely arbitrary and artificial after-market construct. People can spend their money how they want. But I have zero interest in an oversized coaster that used to be a funnybook that someone decided was 2/10 of a point better than a different oversized coaster and therefore worth three times as much money. But then I have somewhere in the neighborhood of zero collector mentality and still think funnybooks are for reading. Doesn't it? You or I or anyone here may think that comics as collectible is silly, but dismissing that in reality a lot of people see them so is unrealistic IMO. I understand that the sale of slabbed books does not directly go into the pockets of creators, but I would think people trying to get in front of the next big hit do. Buy big name creator's new book, slab it, hope for a hit and that it shoots up in value. I would think in this way they indirectly support the market at least. I don't have access to any data one way or the other, and if it exists, I would be curious to see it, but this seems pretty likely to me. Personally, I agree with you. I have no interest in buying slabbed comics. I mostly have collected editions specifically for reading. I have little collector mentality these days, either, but lots of others beside us do, and as long as they keep pumping money into comics and keep interest in it, we are likelier to get new stories. I mean, I hope. Absent any data one way or the other, I can't be sure.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jun 9, 2021 11:41:38 GMT -5
But does it do either of those things? I guess it does if you view comics as a collectible fetish item using the Franklin Mint business model. But it does nothing at all to help comics be what they are...which is an artform to be read. The grading does nothing to keep new comics being written, drawn, printed, etc. It does nothing to help the creators who actually produce the books. It's a completely arbitrary and artificial after-market construct. People can spend their money how they want. But I have zero interest in an oversized coaster that used to be a funnybook that someone decided was 2/10 of a point better than a different oversized coaster and therefore worth three times as much money. But then I have somewhere in the neighborhood of zero collector mentality and still think funnybooks are for reading. Doesn't it? You or I or anyone here may think that comics as collectible is silly, but dismissing that in reality a lot of people see them so is unrealistic IMO. I understand that the sale of slabbed books does not directly go into the pockets of creators, but I would think people trying to get in front of the next big hit do. Buy big name creator's new book, slab it, hope for a hit and that it shoots up in value. I would think in this way they indirectly support the market at least. I don't have access to any data one way or the other, and if it exists, I would be curious to see it, but this seems pretty likely to me. Personally, I agree with you. I have no interest in buying slabbed comics. I mostly have collected editions specifically for reading. I have little collector mentality these days, either, but lots of others beside us do, and as long as they keep pumping money into comics and keep interest in it, we are likelier to get new stories. I mean, I hope. Absent any data one way or the other, I can't be sure. I'll happily cop to the fact that I don't have any firm data one way or the other. But simply looking at the way comics sell currently I tend to suspect that this is a phenomenon that largely effects back issues and not new issues. I guess if CGC still publishes their census reports that data is available, but I'm probably too lazy to look. Ultimately though I suspect that even if some people are buying first issues of new comics to slab it's not that big of an assist to comics in general. Those folks likely aren't buying and slabbing issues 2, 3, etc. And even then, is it just those top creators who have a track record that would lead you to speculate that there's going to be something to make those books appreciate in demand? Guys like Kirkman, for example, whose books tend to end up in other media, may be benefitting a bit. But it seems unlikely to me that most creators are getting much of anything from the effect. I'd be happy to be wrong though.
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