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Post by Randle-El on Sept 29, 2015 10:22:53 GMT -5
Bleeding Cool posted an article today highlighting an interesting debate regarding comic creators charging for autographs. www.bleedingcool.com/2015/09/29/ben-templesmith-talks-tip-jar-economics-and-comic-book-creators/I have mixed feelings on this and can't say I come firmly down on one side or the other. As a fan, of course I would prefer to get books signed for free. At this year's Baltimore Comic Con, I found out that Neal Adams was charging $30 per autograph for an item that was not purchased from his booth. I'll be honest, that's the highest price I've ever heard from a comic creator, if they charge at all. Since it's Neal frickin' Adams, I paid for it, but I probably won't be getting anything else signed by him in the future. For $30 a pop, once is enough. On the other hand, Mark Waid charges nothing and I've had a bunch of books signed by him across multiple conventions. So if anything, knowing that a creator charges for signatures will affect whether I will want to see them again at a show. I also totally get wanting to discourage people bringing huge stacks of books (esp. the same issue to flip on eBay) to sign, and I think the notion of signing a couple for free and charging (or asking for donations) for the rest would be a fair way to discourage that. I think there is one compelling argument for creators charging for signatures. At a lot of these conventions, there are Hollywood celebrities who, for the most part, are making a whole lot more money than most of the creators, and every single one of them is charging for autographs, usually to the tune of $40 to $80. With the exception of Neal Adams, most creators I've seen charge a few bucks for signatures. So if it's OK for celebrities who are arguably wealthier to charge for autographs, why not for comic creators who are typically far less wealthy? As another counterpoint though, there are guys like Jim Lee, who I've heard signs AND sketches for free. I read one interview of his where he said that he used to charge like $80 a sketch, but as he grew more successful he felt bad charging so much so now he does it for free. Granted, he's not your typical creator who is manning his booth for hours grinding out sketches and signatures, but I think it's pretty admirable that he does it for free considering that he could charge a lot (and people would still pay) if he wanted to. |
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Post by The Captain on Sept 29, 2015 11:50:23 GMT -5
I don't really have a problem with it one way or the other. Those guys get some kind of appearance fee just for showing up, and if they can make a little money on top of that by charging for sketches or signatures, more power to them. If Neal Adams wants to charge $30 for a signature, I have two options: pay it, or don't pay it. In that instance, I would not feel it was worth it, but someone else (such as you, who is probably a far bigger Adams fan than I) may want that one book in his/her collection signed.
I have a personal rule of taking no more than three issues for any artist to sign at a show. That way, I am not "that guy" holding up the line with a short box full of books. At the Pittsburgh Comicon in September 2014, both Ron Frenz and the late Herb Trimpe both signed my books for nothing more than a few minutes of conversation about why I wanted them to sign those particular issues, and Bill Sienkiewicz charged the hardly outrageous fee of $5 for two additional signatures after signing the first one for nothing; I paid that since I didn't know the next time I might see him at a show.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Sept 29, 2015 15:18:34 GMT -5
A few years ago, Stan Sakai began charging for sketches and signatures. It broke his heart to do it, but his reasoning was that folks were getting these things from him and then throwing them up on ebay for outrageous money. Sometimes, a seller would list the auction within hours of getting the sketch or signature from him. He felt used.
I am also completely comfortable with paying a writer for a signature because, whereas a beloved artist can sell prints and sketches years later, there's really no other way for a writer to cash in. Some of these guys were paid pittances back in the day and deserve to live a little more comfortably for having added to the quality of our lives.
And it is not true that all creators get appearance fees at shows. Many shows do not pay such fees to any but the top billed talent.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2015 18:21:49 GMT -5
I paid an average of $5 to $7.50 for autograph for all the major players of Batman TV Show back from 1976 to 1986 and did not mind paying them a service fee for their autograph. I got Yvonne Craig, Eartha Kitt, Lee Meriweather, and Burgess Meredith for free. All others a charge specified at the location of where they were at. Sometimes, I have to pay $2 to $3 for a picture for them to sign and here's one example of that:
Burt Ward
He charged $7.00 for an autograph once and $2.00 for a picture bring the total of $9.00 at the Convention that I attended in the late 70's. I don't mind that at all.
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Post by Cei-U! on Sept 29, 2015 20:19:44 GMT -5
My discretionary income is small enough that I have to carefully plan my spending at conventions. I don't mind paying a small fee for an autograph from a retired TV star or an older comics pro who doesn't work regularly anymore. I didn't even mind paying Neal Adams $.10 to sign a book a couple of years ago. And I totally understand the need to discourage the clowns who show up with stacks of comics they intend to sell on eBay the next day. But I'll be damned if I'm paying $50 for a signed picture of working actors like Clark Gregg or Katie Sackett or to get a single item signed by Stan Lee (whose hobby is collecting Rolls Royces, for crying out loud!). Greedy guests like that can bite me.
Cei-U!
There's a reason I call myself "The Frugal Fanboy"!
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Post by Randle-El on Sept 29, 2015 22:20:05 GMT -5
Looks like a lot more creators have chimed in on the debate, including Neal Adams. www.bleedingcool.com/2015/09/29/the-effect-of-not-charging-for-signatures-at-comic-cons/From the Twitterverse: Scott Snyder: Mark Waid: Obviously as a fan, I'd prefer if it creators didn't charge for their signatures, but I understand if they do. I'm not gonna lie though -- those that sign for free do engender a little more good will from me than those that don't, but at the same time I don't think we should expect creators to sign for free. Having a sense of entitlement for what is essentially a gift is where I think it starts to become unreasonable. Of all the things I've had signed, most creators have done it for free, and the few that charged were either doing it for Heroes Initiative, and/or had a reasonable fee in the ball park of a few bucks, five at most. Having said that, I do think that if a creator is going to charge you for signing, I would hope they'd be willing to take some time to chat and engage with you. It's a little off-putting if they treat the autograph process as a purely business transaction -- take your money, sign, and move on to the next in an assembly line fashion. Neal Adams was definitely an outlier for me in terms of price. I'm not gonna lie, I thought $30 to sign a comic book was steep. His prices for sketches were really high too, and to be frank I felt like he was gouging the fans. Since I paid up though, I fully admit to enabling him. But I looked at it this way. I'm a big admirer of his artwork, and he's one of the industry's icons. And while he's not nursing home old, he's getting up there in years and so I figure if there's chance to meet him and get him to sign something I should take it now while he's alive and well. That said, Neal Adams is probably a one-time experience, as his prices are too high for me to justify buying any sketches or getting more than one book signed. In contrast to this, there was the time I met George Perez at a local con. He signed three books for me for free, and he did a quickie sketch at the table for a $40 donation to Heroes Initiative. I'd argue that George Perez is of comparable status in the industry to someone like Neal Adams, and yet he signed for free and did a sketch without being paid for it. You tell who you think I'm going to be a bigger fan of. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Sept 29, 2015 22:29:41 GMT -5
As a creator, you attend a show for one of three reasons:
1. To promote a new work. In that case, don't charge for signatures.
2. To meet your fans and feel like you made a difference with your work. In that case don't charge for signatures.
3. to earn income. There is nothing wrong with this, especially as many creators of days gone by were paid very little, and many indy creators of today still are. In this case, charge whatever you can get for signatures.
As I've said before about Neal Adams in particular, he arrived in comicdom at the tail end of the first generation of comic book creators. These were the guys who didn't grow up on comics; they took these gigs until they could get more lucrative jobs in advertising. Adams has never claimed to be a comic book fan or to even understand comic book fans; he's a nice guy who has spent his life shrewdly working to earn as much income for himself as possible for the honest work he has done. As soon as he had enough clout to stop penciling interiors, he stopped penciling interiors. As soon as he had enough clout to start his own company and stop penciling all together, he started his own company and stopped penciling all together. And when it became profitable to return to comicdom, as well as to start doing shows, he returned to comicdom and started doing shows.
Neal has never claimed to be in it for the love. He's an old school creator looking to live comfortably off of the awesome output he gave us. He's a nice guy who is obliging to his fans, but he expects to get paid, and I can't fault him on that.
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Post by Randle-El on Sept 29, 2015 23:07:53 GMT -5
As a creator, you attend a show for one of three reasons: 1. To promote a new work. In that case, don't charge for signatures. 2. To meet your fans and feel like you made a difference with your work. In that case don't charge for signatures. 3. to earn income. There is nothing wrong with this, especially as many creators of days gone by were paid very little, and many indy creators of today still are. In this case, charge whatever you can get for signatures. As I've said before about Neal Adams in particular, he arrived in comicdom at the tail end of the first generation of comic book creators. These were the guys who didn't grow up on comics; they took these gigs until they could get more lucrative jobs in advertising. Adams has never claimed to be a comic book fan or to even understand comic book fans; he's a nice guy who has spent his life shrewdly working to earn as much income for himself as possible for the honest work he has done. As soon as he had enough clout to stop penciling interiors, he stopped penciling interiors. As soon as he had enough clout to start his own company and stop penciling all together, he started his own company and stopped penciling all together. And when it became profitable to return to comicdom, as well as to start doing shows, he returned to comicdom and started doing shows. Neal has never claimed to be in it for the love. He's an old school creator looking to live comfortably off of the awesome output he gave us. He's a nice guy who is obliging to his fans, but he expects to get paid, and I can't fault him on that. Shax, I don't necessarily disagree with you. And to be clear, my experience with him was pleasant and I don't regret the money spent. I think I already articulated my reasons why, in the end, I decided the price was not so unreasonable that I wouldn't pay it. And I think you raise a good point about him working during a time when creators weren't paid well and didn't have same kind of rights and perks that creators now do. Given that history, it's understandable that he'd want to capitalize on the increased value of his back catalog, esp. when he probably wasn't paid that much to produce it in the first place. I think my "gouging" comment was based mainly on his response to a fan inquiring about sketch prices that I mentioned in my original post. He bluntly told the guy "It's a LOT of money", in a way that seemed to communicate that even he himself thought the prices were high. My George Perez comparison was meant to illustrate that you can't help but to feel better about the experience if you know the creator is doing it out of love for the medium and appreciation for the fans. I don't begrudge Neal Adams wanting to make a living off of his artwork. But I'm not going to lie -- knowing that he's just doing it to make a buck does not engender the same good will and admiration as someone like Perez who signs and sketches for free because he enjoys comics and enjoys the fans. That in no way takes away from my respect of Adams as an artist. But as a comics fan, you can't help but to like a creator more that you know enjoys what he does versus someone who is just getting paid to do it. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2015 23:48:33 GMT -5
I've seen creators who charge and those who don't, plus those who encourage donations to things like Hero Initiative. I don't think there is a right or wrong universal answer, it's really up to each individual and the circumstances of the show. As a fan I prefer to get my stuff signed for free, but I have always given donations to those encouraging it. Ideally, I like to see a middle ground, creators who sign x number of issues for free, or add a signature to something you purchase from them for free, but charge per signature beyond that set amount (get 3 signed for free, $1 per for the next 10, $5 per for the next 10 and $10 per after that...so the fans can get a book signed and the flippers or mass hoarders end up giving the creator a nice payday with the large stacks of books (I did see a guy in line at Mark Waid's table at a show one year that had a little red wagon he was pulling behind him filled with boxes of stuff Mark had written and was asking Mark to sign it all (complete Flash run, all his JLA issues, all his Cap issues, etc. etc. Mark signed it all for free eventually but made the guy keep getting in line and signing 10-20 books at a time. Kudos to Mark for being gracious on that. But yeah, thee are some who take it to an extreme and take advantage of the creators.
I have no problem if a creator charges, I just consider my budget and make my decisions accordingly if I can/am willing to pay it. I have no qualms about paying for sketches though, as that is an investment of time and effort by an artist producing something not available elsewhere.
-M
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Sept 30, 2015 4:23:39 GMT -5
;I think my "gouging" comment was based mainly on his response to a fan inquiring about sketch prices that I mentioned in my original post. He bluntly told the guy "It's a LOT of money", in a way that seemed to communicate that even he himself thought the prices were high. Oh, I wasn't specifically addressing you; really just thinking more about my own perspective and reiterating it more clearly. But yeah, Neal absolutely does think the amount of money he gets for his signatures and work is a little ridiculous, and that again goes back to his being a First Gen comic book creator. He didn't grow up with comics and, even today, really doesn't get what all the fuss is about, but if folks are willing to pay him a lot of money, he is very willing to accept a lot of money. If that makes you less of a fan of his, I don't think he minds. And George Perez is probably the most gracious comic book creator I've ever met. What a guy. He's clearly in it 100% for the love. |
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Post by batlaw on Sept 30, 2015 4:41:51 GMT -5
I can't imagine any known artist not charging for a sketch. However there are only a few creators I think can justify charging for an autograph. And unless you're stan Lee, anything more than maybe $10 is unreasonable.
I've passed on getting things signed by a couple people case they charged. There's a few I've paid to get a signature from, but not likely to do so a second time.
That said, I'd happily make a "donation" on most every occasion if it were an option. Personally id just be compelled to and feel better about the whole exchange. Especially if it were for a specific charity. I'd also be inclined or more comfortable to get more items signed. As is, I can't bring myself to ask for more than two signatures personally. I've never seen a donation request or option and couldn't bring myself to just offer $$ without it feeling weird or being awkward. At times I have bought something from their table after a signing just to balance the karma.
I think if you've bought something they should sign at least once or twice for free. And if you want more than 2-3 signatures You should pay something reasonable. Whether they're a comics "superstar" or not. Someone like Stan Lee again fir example though is the exception simply because of the logistics of handling crowds etc.
I liked how james O'Barr did it... he signed for free, but then offered COAs for a few bucks each. I think if your average creator is going to charge, especially a premium amount for just a signature, then they've assigned a value to it. As such imo they should be obligated to offer you some form of verification of its authenticity. If they're saying this ink, or this item with this ink is now a valuable commodity, they're making it a "business transaction". As such it's a totally different experience with different expectations. Such as a "receipt" being in order.
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Post by Randle-El on Sept 30, 2015 9:13:19 GMT -5
I know I included sketching in the thread title, but as others have noted, it is a different beast compared to autographs since it's typically a larger time commitment on the part of the artist. I think there's not too much debate as to whether artists should get something for sketches. Artists who sketch for free are really going above and beyond, in my opinion. Even though the freebie sketches they do are cranked out pretty quickly and probably don't involve a lot of work for them individually, it still takes a few minutes, and when a lot of people get one that adds up. I'm still amazed at big name artists who sketch for free when they could be charging a lot for it.
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Post by The Captain on Sept 30, 2015 9:33:43 GMT -5
I know I included sketching in the thread title, but as others have noted, it is a different beast compared to autographs since it's typically a larger time commitment on the part of the artist. I think there's not too much debate as to whether artists should get something for sketches. Artists who sketch for free are really going above and beyond, in my opinion. Even though the freebie sketches they do are cranked out pretty quickly and probably don't involve a lot of work for them individually, it still takes a few minutes, and when a lot of people get one that adds up. I'm still amazed at big name artists who sketch for free when they could be charging a lot for it. I'm with you on this. Sketches are a completely different situation completely. I paid $10 apiece for three 4"x 6" headshot sketches from Andy Price last year (he draws the "My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic" book), one for each of my daughters and one for me. He probably spent about 10 minutes on each, from getting my ideas for the sketch to the sketch itself and finishing touches with gel pens, so his pay rate for three customized pieces of artwork was about $1/minute, which is eminently fair. His rates for larger commissioned pieces were higher, but these were requests people were dropping off on Friday and picking up either Saturday or Sunday, meaning he was either doing them during down time when he wasn't doing other things or working on them in the evening; again, completely justified in my mind to do that. At the end of the day, they can ask for money for their signatures and sketches, and we can decide if we want to pay it. It's a nice system. |
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Post by coke & comics on Sept 30, 2015 17:09:44 GMT -5
I have no problem with charging for signatures, but it's not something I care to pay for. I don't get many things signed and probably wouldn't pay to have anything signed. I favor supporting artists in whatever way I can and them supporting themselves however they can.
I've gotten many autographs from Stan Sakai. He has never been charging at a con I have seen him at, but he has been taking donations for various causes in exchange for signatures.
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Post by coke & comics on Sept 30, 2015 17:09:49 GMT -5
Kurt Busiek, via Facebook, on the issue:
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