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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2014 0:09:24 GMT -5
I think it's pretty amazing that modern single issue comics go up in value to justify speculation. It made much more sense with older comics. You had a key issue (number one, first appearance, etc) that was in high demand with a low supply due to few surviving copies and no availability through reprints -- recipe for rising prices. These days, considering all the options one has to obtain the same material -- single issue, trade collection, digital -- I don't get why people enable this sort of behavior. Are there really that many people that have to have the original printed comic? For collectors, an original printed comic is usually the preference to a reprint. Print runs, or variants can be scarce, to outright rare. Using that Rat Queens #1 Blank Cover as an example, there are only an estimated 300 copies. A casual reader might prefer a (cheaper) version but that doesn't change the fact that the blank cover is rare and will remain fairly pricey for as long as the series remains popular. Some are anticipating it will get even more popular...Mycomicshop has none of the regular comics in stock and Mile High only has a recent reprint of #1. Clearly, someone bought those comics.... There were plenty available a few short weeks ago locally, until the tv option was announced. I talked to a bunch of the local dealers the past few weeks as we did cons and store appearances for the studio. As soon as the news hit, one guy in the area scooped up every copy he could get his hands on. One shop had 20-25 copies left, the guy came in and bought them all, another had 10-15, our shop had 3 but we only ordered in 6 to begin with, all scooped up by the same guy who does the same thing with any Image #1 that shows any heat, he buys them then sits on them for a month or two then starts putting them on ebay trying to flip them for maximum price treading on the "scarcity of the books" a scarcity he himself created by snapping up all the local copies. The dealer who had 20-25 copies had brought them to a con the week before and was running a con special at $2 a copy for 1st print #1's and they weren't moving at all. TV announcement hits and the speculators come out of the wood drying up the supply creating a self-fulfilling prophecy, selling to others trying to capitalize on the "popularity" of the book because of the TV announcement. The same thing happened with BOOM's Day Men last year, first issue hit, TV announcement, people scrambling to buy up copies, Bleeding Cool announcing the print run sold out at Diamond, second prints, people putting $15-20 price tags on the book on ebay, and now there are bunches of copies being put out at cover or less as the heat didn't last...for every hit on the speculation roulette, there are dozens upon dozens of misses. It doesn't matter if there are only 300 copies of a book if there are only 25 people who want it at the price it is selling for. It will be demand, not scarcity, that determines the long term value of the book. Short term, Rat Queens may do well long term, however right now I see the scarcity of it as a self-perpetuating/fulfilling cycle. We will see what happens when all those copies that were getting scooped up start hitting the market at the same time and people begin to perceive that it's not as scarce as thought, then we will see if demand falters or stays consistent and what the long-term value of the book might be. That will be the test. I've made some money selling "hot" books recently-Saga 1-6, Fatale 1, Hawkeye 1-9, and just this past week Manifest Destiny #1. I didn't but them with the intent of reselling them, I bought them because I was interested in reading them, but when #1 was selling for enough for me to buy the first trade and still make some money, I sold off the runs because I don't need the first prints to be able to reread it in the future. -M
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Post by Randle-El on Jun 23, 2014 0:32:15 GMT -5
Ah, I skimmed the post, my bad. I find Overstreet to be ridiculously priced as well. I find good prices on eBay and the CGC boards, and occasionally on Craigslist. I check the surrounding areas as well, as far as Los Angeles and San Diego just in case. Lonestar is definitely priced better than Milehigh, but I'd still only use them to fill gaps in runs and try my luck on eBay otherwise. And sometimes there are good deals to be had. If you're looking for something obscure, it's worth checking all online retailers. I found the Fangraphix magazines at Milehigh for $1 each I believe. When they arrived they were in unbelievably good condition, and still had the cellophane wrapping they were shipped in. The wrapping had writing on it and was so brittle it just crumbled off, but the comic inside was excellent. You know you're the first person to have cracked into it when the pages stick where they were trimmed. But when I'm going to buy a big pile of comics (which I haven't done in quite a while) I tend to look everywhere before making a decision, trying to save that last dime. I wasn't trying to be snarky about where you shop by the way, if that's how it came across. I found a Hawkeye #1 variant cover for $8 on eBay. It says first print but the regular cover seems to be going for more, so I don't know. If you're interested though, here's a link www.ebay.com/itm/HAWKEYE-1-MATT-FRACTION-DAVID-AJA-1st-PRINT-SPIDER-MAN-50th-ANNIVESARY-VARIANT-/291174126604?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item43cb54940cI think it's pretty ridiculous that retailers still use Overstreet to price their comics. From what I understand, it amounts to some secret cabal of retailers who basically decide what each issue is worth based on their own sales. Like it or not, places like eBay are a very real and substantial part of the back issue market. I get that it would hard to include that data, since there is so much of it and there is no way to verify the grades of the books being sold, but it also seems out of touch to completely ignore it as well. I used to look on Craigslist for comics, but I have long since given up. Pretty much every listing in my area is for people trying to unload all their 90s comics. I use eBay quite a bit, mostly for picking up big lots which I find I can usually get a better deal on than buying from an online retailer. I agree w/your sentiments about Lone Star. I often tend to pick up lots off of eBay, and any holes in the run I'll fill in from Lone Star -- usually after I've accumulated enough of a list of books that I need to fill in the holes. I don't find it to be cost effective to buy single issues off of eBay because of the shipping, and since I don't usually buy expensive comics a lot of times the shipping will be more than the book itself. That's great that you have found some deals on Mile High, but honestly that website is so awful that out of principle I refuse to use them.
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Post by Randle-El on Jun 23, 2014 0:40:45 GMT -5
For collectors, an original printed comic is usually the preference to a reprint. Print runs, or variants can be scarce, to outright rare. Look, I get that. I generally prefer the single issues as well, especially for older (e.g., newsprint era) books. But not to the point that I'm going to pay 10x cover price of a fairly recent comic that I can easily get in trade or digital. I'm interested in picking up the current Hawkeye series, but if I have to choose between paying $100 for the first dozen issues or picking up a hardcover that includes the same material for $25, there's no contest. And not if it's going to encourage this same type of behavior in the future. Like mrp wrote, this kind of speculation is purely a self-fulfilling prophecy. Books become rare or valuable because speculators make it so that it happens based on, what -- a hunch that this book is going to get TV rights and become the next Walking Dead?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2014 0:45:14 GMT -5
I can't say I'd pay much more than $6 or so for a recent back issue either. I'm willing to pay slightly higher than cover for a comic series I really love if one issue sells out and I get screwed out of my copy for some reason. I had to do it twice for Afterlife With Archie and may have to do it with the new Goon mini, which I may just skip altogether and get in TPB later since I can't get the first issue.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2014 0:48:46 GMT -5
The current ridiculous speculation based on TV show that amazes me is IZombie #1. It was a $1 introductory issue from Vertigo that didn't sell well. It sat in our dollar bin for nearly 4 years unsold, I saw it at a local con going for $25 so as a lark, I fished it out of the dollar bin at the shop, slapped it in a bag and board (dollar stuff is bag only), put a $20 price sticker on it (less than it was at the con) with a little index card sign in front of it saying "Coming to the WB this fall" and voila, it sold in 1 day. Not for the story, not for the lovely Allred art, but because it got a TV show and the guy figured he could buy it at $20 and flip it for more soon, when a week earlier he could have fished it out of the dollar bin, but he paid $19 more for it because it was "a hot speculator book" when previously no one had any interest in it and we couldn't sell it for a $1.
-M
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2014 1:04:18 GMT -5
I had that comic, read it and didn't like it. I bought it because it was a dollar. Sold it for a dollar a while back too.
Yeah, people will regret that speculation later on many of their purchases. Remember when Skullkickers was hot? Stumptown? I should have sold off my Stumptown. I loved the series though and didn't want to get rid of them. Now they're not worth anything special.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2014 1:21:38 GMT -5
Look, I get that. I generally prefer the single issues as well, especially for older (e.g., newsprint era) books. But not to the point that I'm going to pay 10x cover price of a fairly recent comic that I can easily get in trade or digital. I'd have to be pretty well convinced to pay 10x cover price myself for new books. And the vast majority of regular comics do not go for such premiums...I estimate I got over half of my 'modern books' at well below cover price. These aren't usually speculator type books, give or take the odd variant that becomes a hot item (like books limited to one per store, or printed in ratios of 1 per 100 regular copies). Now if there's some guy (like the one MRP alluded to) out there lapping up every in-store copy of Rat Queens in sight...do store sellers say 1-per-customer? Hardly. They're glad to sell the thing en masse if the books are just sitting there as stock that ties up working capital. What he makes in the secondary market is his concern, his risk, his hit or miss. Even if the scarcity is contrived. Lots of 'hot books' eventually cool, to the point that a reseller is sometimes left with wads of them. But if he can make a profit selling them at his price, power to him. I wouldn't pay 10x cover for a regular Rat Queens #1. I'm not paying $100 (weighted average) for a Fiona variant either, as there are an estimated 2000 copies around and I bought an extra one last month for less than $30. But if someone offer me a hundred for it, I just might sell it....(I have multiple copies). I'm one who think Rat Queens has a fairly vocal following and has some potential. Which is why I didn't mind getting the rarest version of it.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jun 23, 2014 6:00:26 GMT -5
99 % of comics come down in price . I usually play the waiting game on books I want to read. Speculating is always risky , but if you have disposable cash, why not?
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Post by The Captain on Jun 23, 2014 6:14:52 GMT -5
99 % of comics come down in price . I usually play the waiting game on books I want to read. Speculating is always risky , but if you have disposable cash, why not? This is what I'm hoping for with Incredible Hulk #271. It was $1 box fodder for years, but as soon as the GotG movie was announced, it skyrockets on eBay to $50 or more. It's the only issue I'm missing between Hulk #200 and #336, but for as insane I am about completionism, I refuse to spend that much money on it, since it will eventually come down in price once the shine of the movie wears off and Rocket Raccoon gets relegated back to being barely more than a footnote. Besides, I can't pay that much for a book with such a bad cover.
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Post by Randle-El on Jun 23, 2014 9:39:59 GMT -5
99 % of comics come down in price . I usually play the waiting game on books I want to read. Speculating is always risky , but if you have disposable cash, why not? This is what I'm hoping for with Incredible Hulk #271. It was $1 box fodder for years, but as soon as the GotG movie was announced, it skyrockets on eBay to $50 or more. It's the only issue I'm missing between Hulk #200 and #336, but for as insane I am about completionism, I refuse to spend that much money on it, since it will eventually come down in price once the shine of the movie wears off and Rocket Raccoon gets relegated back to being barely more than a footnote. Besides, I can't pay that much for a book with such a bad cover. And frankly, this is what annoys me about speculation. A book that was easily available in the dollar bins in now worth double digits because they made a movie with one of the characters -- and it's not because the demand is driven by non-comics folks who saw the movie and now want to read about it in some obscure dollar-bin back issue. For folks who just want to complete their collections, fill in gaps, or just follow a monthly book in single issue format, it drives the prices up for no good reason, and makes it so that we either have to wait for prices to come down or are left with getting it in trade format. Another real example: I'm currently reading Lazarus by Greg Rucka and Michael Lark. Great book, I've been on it since issue #1. I had read a few of the preview pages that had been printed in some of the other Image books, was interested, and planned to look out for it when the #1 released. But then I forgot about it. When it did come out, I didn't notice until I started seeing some reviews online saying that it was good, and my local shop had it prominently on display as their best comic of the week. When I saw that, I knew that the speculators would smell the blood in the water -- it's a #1 issue of an Image book that has TV/movie adaptation written all over it. When I tried to find a copy at my local store, it was all sold out. I later ended up getting a copy of the second printing, which I'm perfectly happy with. But I was glad that I managed to get in on the series when I did, as copies of #1 are now selling for several times the cover price. Lazarus doesn't seem to have the same surge in prices as some of these other Image books, but it still proves my point.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 23, 2014 22:00:35 GMT -5
The current ridiculous speculation based on TV show that amazes me is IZombie #1. It was a $1 introductory issue from Vertigo that didn't sell well. It sat in our dollar bin for nearly 4 years unsold, I saw it at a local con going for $25 so as a lark, I fished it out of the dollar bin at the shop, slapped it in a bag and board (dollar stuff is bag only), put a $20 price sticker on it (less than it was at the con) with a little index card sign in front of it saying "Coming to the WB this fall" and voila, it sold in 1 day. Not for the story, not for the lovely Allred art, but because it got a TV show and the guy figured he could buy it at $20 and flip it for more soon, when a week earlier he could have fished it out of the dollar bin, but he paid $19 more for it because it was "a hot speculator book" when previously no one had any interest in it and we couldn't sell it for a $1. -M This is pretty much why I'd never purposely speculate on a book. I was happy with my accidently Walking Dead score (I discovered about 18 months ago I bough #1 off the shelf... sold it for about $1000), but I'd give most of that back trying to re-create it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2014 21:50:33 GMT -5
All the good little speculaors out there should be buying up Outcast #1, Kirkman's new book. Out less than a week, sold out at Diamond, already optioned for a TV show, it is already going for 2-3X cover on ebay and the preview in Walking Dead #127 is fetching $10-$20 in places....again it came out Wednesday and lots of local shops have copies aplenty, but already 100-200% increase in sale price online....
sigh
-M
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2014 22:35:15 GMT -5
All the good little speculaors out there should be buying up Outcast #1, Kirkman's new book. Out less than a week, sold out at Diamond, already optioned for a TV show, it is already going for 2-3X cover on ebay and the preview in Walking Dead #127 is fetching $10-$20 in places....again it came out Wednesday and lots of local shops have copies aplenty, but already 100-200% increase in sale price online.... For those who can't get it in shops, Midtown still has it at $2.99 but is limiting it at 1 per customer. MRP, is your store's policy one per customer or can a good little speculator come in and buy all and ask for more?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2014 23:16:00 GMT -5
Depends on what he orders. He very rarely orders more than 2-3 copies beyond pulls for anything unless it is a proven seller, but for Outcast he took a risk as he only had 1 customer put it on their pull list (90% of our pull customers are DC/Marvel only). He sold 1 copy the day it came out and I grabbed a copy to try, the rest are still on the shelf unless they sold since Thursday. He won't limit it and he doesn't sell on ebay, so he would likely let someone buy the rest of the copies. If he knows its something a regular wants, he'll pull it off and save copies for them, and occasionally will pull stuff off to save for the convention he runs in the fall, but that's fairly rare (we usually pull back one copy of Walking Dead and one copy of Deadpool for the con as they are the 2 biggest sellers in the area, though Harley Quinn is challenging that right now as is Amazing Spidey. He will reorder stuff if available for regular customers, but not for customers he doesn't know unless they prepay, as he has gotten stuck with a lot of books doing that, but Outcast is supposedly sold out at Diamond so it's not really possible to ask for more on that. However, he always makes sure pulls get stuff first, and regulars get a shot at "hot books" before he sells the last copy of something he ordered heavy on. If he only ordered a handful of copies and they sell, he's happy no matter who buys them, but he does notice when people buy in bulk and does not buy back from them if the book goes up unless he is getting a really good price and has a buyer already lined up, so he doesn't care all that much if folks buy it to flip as long as he is moving copies and don't try to flip it back to him. I've sold a few things back to him over the years (Fatale and Saga) but he had buyers lined up and we both made money on the deal. I could have cut him out and sold direct to the customer as I knew them as well, but I cut the shop owner in as middle man since I help him out at cons and with back issues.
I know a few people who aren't regular customers of his who are looking for copies of both Outcast 1 and WD 127, so I may try to find the store's copies a home for him if they are still there when I stop in tomorrow, but I won't snap them up myself and hang on to them-though I would be willing to sell my copy down the road at some point. I did the same thing with a few other books along the way that I had him order, that got hot, but didn't move locally (Manhattan Projects was a big one on that).
I've never seen him limit one per customer, but we only have one regular who tries to flip books on ebay as a side business, and our policy with him is no second copies of anything unless your file is cleared out, which is rarely the case. Buy the stuff on your pull you requested before you clean us out of books you didn't have on your pull...which to me is not unreasonable.
-M
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2014 23:30:47 GMT -5
One issue a week old and already optioned for a show. That's sadder than the speculating to me. Then again, just because the TV rights were sold doesn't mean anyone is making a show out of it. I think studios are in a mindset right now where they just want to acquire comic licenses. A comic that hasn't even been released yet is probably a cheap comic license to add to the portfolio.
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