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Post by chadwilliam on Dec 28, 2015 17:52:23 GMT -5
Your comments on the Riddler not fitting in with the rest of the Rogues is fitting since the first three claimants all suffer the same stigma. The Catwoman is treated with skepticism due to her romantic relationship with Batman; the Riddler's MO is literally an invitation to Batman to be captured; and aside from Batman 130, Luthor has never really been a Bat-Villain outside of World's Finest. It establishes a nice little hierarchy and elitism within Gotham's underworld that hadn't really been present before. It's also great to see Harvey Dent's abilities as a lawyer put into play. While he's reverted to lawyer mode since, I believe this is the first time the reader was actually shown just how sharp his mind was/is within the courtroom excepting those flashbacks to his origin. Yeah, yeah, there are spoilers ahead with regards to this detail, but my point still stands.
Nice that the courtroom isn't bound by convention either. What does Ra's al Ghul do when presented with an objection? He borrows Dent's coin and flips it. Two-Face wants to strap Riddler to a pile of dynamite and set it alight to make his argument? Sure, why not, we're all criminals here. That ambience works perfectly. There's a sort of "If you're going to live outside the law, you have to be honest" attitude at play here. If their claims had been proven, I'm sure Catwoman, Riddler, Luthor would have been hailed as the new King/Queen of Crime, but when discovered to be lying or mistaken, the jury is merciless. They're very effective at policing themselves in their own strange way since you know anyone proven to be lying is going to have to lay low for a while.
I think the reason for Catwoman's assertion that she had killed Batman was borne out of sheer ruthlessness. Though she isn't a killer and does have affection for the Caped Crusader, in her mind there's no reason why she shouldn't benefit from his death now that he's gone. If she couldn't win his heart in life then she'll claim ownership of his soul in death. After all, shouldn't that be his just desserts for spurning her all these years? I also liked the, well, cattiness of her coming up a story that involved Two-Face in an oblique way. Nice to see her play dirty by trying to tarnish Two-Face's reputation during the proceedings
As for the Riddler... this may have been one of the earliest Batman comics I had and that Jim Aparo cover remains my favourite Riddler cover out there. His "I can still send riddles to his grave" declaration is quite chilling since you can tell he really means it. Earlier tales had established just how deeply rooted his neurosis about sending riddles was, but this really drives the point home. And I love how he walks into the courtroom with his cigar blowing question marks made of smoke as if even here, he needs to make a grand entrance. It's as if he expects this whole thing to be a cakewalk.
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Post by foxley on Dec 28, 2015 19:27:39 GMT -5
And yet, they invited Cluemaster, the poor man's Riddler. Go figure!
I've always thought this particular riddle was good counter to those who claim the Riddler's M.O. is stupid and an invitation to get caught. This particularly fiendish conundrum plays entirely fair by the Riddler's rules, but would be almost impossible to unravel before the crime (unless you're Batman, that is).
I agree with your statement that Eddie always feels the need to prove himself smarter than those around him, especially the other villains. There is a (much) later story where the Riddler says that to him crimes are performance art. I think this statement goes a long way to explaining Eddie's need for theatrics and his deliberate attention-seeking.
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Post by Hoosier X on Dec 29, 2015 12:01:02 GMT -5
I am getting ready to write the review of Batman #293 and I am wondering if there's a common slang term among Superman fans for Lex Luthor's 1970s look: This is Lex Luthor to me. I'm not as big a Superman fan as I am a fan of Batman or Hulk or Spider-Man, but I like the character. I just haven't read hundreds and hundreds of Superman stories. So I haven't really read that many 1970s Lex Luthor stories. But I love every 1970s Lex Luthor story I've ever read. So I know I've heard slang terms for other versions of Lex. 1960s Lex is sometimes called "prison duds Lex Luthor" because he would escape from prison and wouldn't take time to change clothes before attacking Superman again. (I find this hilarious.) In the late Bronze Age, Lex kept the purple and green color scheme but started wearing an elaborate battle-suit, so I think I've heard him called "battle-suit Lex Luthor." And of course, he was "businessman Lex Luthor" post-Crisis. (BORING! I thought "businessman Lex Luthor" got real old real fast, yet the Superman writers thought it was such an innovative concept. As if you can't read the newspaper - any issue of any newspaper - and read about corrupt, egotistical, untouchable businessmen. It wouldn't have been so bad if they hadn't used him so often for such a long time.) So does anybody know of a slang term for 1970s Lex? I call him "purple and green Lex Luthor." I like the way he modified the purple and green suit so he would look nice traveling to Gotham City to appear before the villains court. I call him "Pimp Lex Luthor." 1970s Lex Luthor is HILARIOUS!
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Dec 29, 2015 12:07:12 GMT -5
For me, 70ies Lex Luthor's always been like a comedic Benito Mussolini : he looks the part, is in love with himself, easy to ridicule, and is delusional about his real power yet dangerous.
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Post by Hoosier X on Dec 29, 2015 12:26:15 GMT -5
For me, 70ies Lex Luthor's always been like a comedic Benito Mussolini : he looks the part, is in love with himself, easy to ridicule, and is delusional about his real power yet dangerous. Instead of comparing Mussolini and Stan Lee, Grant Morrison should have compared Mussolini and Lex Luthor. That would have been funny and appropriate and not so much full of stupidness.
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Post by Hoosier X on Dec 29, 2015 16:24:55 GMT -5
BATMAN #299 and down (reviews by Hoosier X)BATMAN #293"Where Were You On The Night Batman Was Killed?: The Testimony of Lex Luthor!" November 1977 Story: David V. Reed Art: John Calnan and Tex Blaidsell Coloring: Jerry Serpe Lettering: Ben Oda Editor: Julius Schwartz The first thing the reader is likely to notice in "The Testimony of Lex Luthor!" is that Lex is an arrogant d-bag. An almost insufferable preening loudmouth. Look at his special purple and green Victory Pimp costume, with the cape and the wristbands and the "L" on his chest. Everybody in the room is thinking "What an a-hole!" After a few panels with captions describing the "Where Were You On The Night Batman Was Killed?" storyline for the casual comic book readers who had missed the first two parts, Lex walks in like he owns the place, strutting around as if the entire proceeding is a mere formality and the gathered Batman villains should be thankful that he has lowered himself to be seen in the company of mere costumed villains who can't even kill the Batman. Lex says: I HAVE AN OPENING STATEMENT: HAD THE WORTHY PROSECUTOR TAKEN MY SUGGESTION TO HEAR ME FIRST, THESE TRIALS WOULD BE OVER BY NOW! INSTEAD, HE HAS CHOSEN TO STAGE A REVOLVING CIRCUS – WASTING EVERYBODY’S TIME – MOST ESPECIALLY MINE! Two-Face tells him to get on with it and Lex goes into such a story! He goes into great detail about his latest revenge scheme against Superman. He had a satellite called Skysurgeon that would erase Batman's mind and put Superman's mind into Batman's body! And then Lex Luthor could beat Superman to a pulp (with his special pain-inducing gloves) and kill him! He just has to make sure both Superman and Batman are standing in just the right places at just the right time. So he arranges for Superman to give a lecture about the environment and at the same time, Lex tries to steal the Crown of Charlemagne from a museum (the Gotham museum, I presume), knowing the theft will attract Batman! And, except for one minor detail, it works! Superman, his mind erased, falls down onstage and Batman runs around confused, tries to fly away and can only hop like a kangaroo. Lex’s gang throws a net over the flailing Batman (who now has Superman’s mind) and they take him to a concrete bunker where LEX LUTHOR BEATS BATMAN TO DEATH! Two-Face, a bit stunned (like everyone else among the Batman villains), manages to find his voice to ask: SO THE BATMAN’S DEATH – ACCOMPLISHED FIRST BY ERASING HIS MIND AND CONSCIOUSNESS – THEN BY KILLING HIS BODY – WAS ONLY AN INCIDENTAL SIDE-ISSUE OF YOUR VICTORY OVER SUPERMAN?
To which Lex replies: That is cold! Not cool, Lex! What a d-bag he is! Well, Two-Face isn’t really stunned by Lex's story. He has a witness, somebody from Lex's gang, who testifies to some very odd behavior by one of the other gang members just before the caper. (HINT: It was Batman!) And then Two-Face calls in Superman! Yes, Superman testifies! Yes, it makes no sense in about a dozen different ways! But it’s so cool! You see, Purple and Green Lex Luthor just isn't as slick as he thinks he is. Superman was suspicious of the gig to lecture on the environment. (They should have called Green Arrow! Or Aquaman! Or post-Crisis Poison Ivy!) So he asked Batman to look into it. And Batman discovered the plot but they both went along with it … mostly just to mess with Lex, I think. So it wasn't Superman in Batman’s body that Lex was beating to death. It was Superman in Superman's body wearing a Batman suit. And it wasn’t dead Batman that Lex shot into space. It was very-much-among-the-living Superman! Superman ends his testimony looking rather smug. He flies away, but not before saying that the amnesty arranged by Two-Face for the villains does not extend to Lex Luthor, and Superman will be waiting for him when he leaves. The jury rather gleefully brings forward a verdict of "not guilty." But Lex has a few words to say before he leaves. Who is Two-Face cavorting with that he can get Superman to testify and also agree to an amnesty for the Batman villains? What kind of deals has Two-Face made? Who has he sold out? Lex makes a good point, and Ras al Ghul, a very observant chap, notices this and asks Two-Face to explain. Two-Face says these questions will be cleared up in the next issue. I enjoy "The Testimony of Lex Luthor" a little more every time I read it. In the 1980s and 1990s, when I re-read my late-1970s Batman collection, I always read #291 and #292 again, but I usually skipped #293 and I usually skimmed #294. So I haven’t read it nearly as often as the first two chapters. It's quite a departure from those earlier chapters! And once a Batman fan gets over his initial (and completely justifiable!) distaste for Lex's dismissive attitude towards Batman, he or she can enjoy the Schadenfreude when Lex is TOTALLY PWNED at the conclusion! I noticed just a few days ago that this story is an excellent example of super-dickery! Perhaps one of the greatest examples of super-dickery! (It would be my favored candidate in a contest for Best Super-Dickery Ever!) Superman and Batman don't really need to drag Super-Pimp Lex Luthor into this tribunal at all! As we will find out in the conclusion, Batman knows what he is looking for in these trials, and – along with Superman – he knows that Lex Luthor’s plot to kill Superman through beating up Batman's body in no way resembles the circumstances of the grisly murder of the Batman look-alike revealed in the conclusion. But I'm sure Superman talked Batman into including Lex Luthor among the suspects. Just to see the look on Lex's face. Just to see Lex humiliated in front of all the Batman villains after being such an obnoxious know-it-all jerk for 13 pages. Just to see Lex get all mad and pissy and tantrummy before storming out. I bet Superman was impossible to live with for weeks afterward! (Green Arrow probably liked not being the most hated JLA member for a month or so.) Next: The Testimony of the Joker!
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Post by wildfire2099 on Dec 29, 2015 21:23:47 GMT -5
I just LOVE the royal Lex outfit.
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Post by Action Ace on Dec 29, 2015 23:11:13 GMT -5
1970s Luthor is most commonly called "power suit" Luthor I believe. This was the version used in the Challenge of the Superfriends cartoon. At this point, the power suit is only a couple of years old. The Action #544 upgrade is "war suit" Luthor.
You can count me as a fan of the Royal Luthor outfit as well.
The look on the Gotham criminals when Superman bursts through the wall was priceless.
Superman and Batman exchanging outfits to foil the villains NEVER gets old.
Lex was so humiliated, he doesn't show up in a present day DC comic for 9 months after being everywhere in 1977.
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Post by earl on Dec 29, 2015 23:12:11 GMT -5
Did the Batman cartoon ever use Trial story as a plot? It seems like an obvious one that would have worked great as a cartoon.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Dec 29, 2015 23:19:17 GMT -5
Did the Batman cartoon ever use Trial story as a plot? It seems like an obvious one that would have worked great as a cartoon. It was likely the inspiration for the episode "Almost Got 'Im" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almost_Got_%27Im
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Post by dupersuper on Dec 29, 2015 23:24:03 GMT -5
I love Supes and Bats going to all that trouble just to mess with Lex. The look on Supermans face as he's letting Lex beat on him...
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Post by Hoosier X on Dec 30, 2015 12:56:12 GMT -5
BATMAN #299 and down (reviews by Hoosier X)BATMAN #294"Where Were You On The Night Batman Was Killed?: The Testimony of the Joker!" December 1977 Story: David V. Reed Art: John Calnan and Tex Blaidsell Coloring: Jerry Serpe Lettering: Ben Oda Editor: Julius Schwartz And now, it's the Joker's turn! The Joker explains that he was about to rob a warehouse where fur coats are stored because he knew the owners had stashed a half million dollars there. But somebody else was already there robbing the place! The Joker backed off because he figured the lowlife thief might have set off an alarm. Batman shows up and beats the guy up, giving the Joker a chance to sit back and watch his longtime enemy in action. The Joker returns to the scene of the crime the next evening to carry out the plan that was interrupted the night before. And the Batman is there again! The Joker blinds the Batman with a dose of dissolving fluid to the face and then beats him up. "It was like a dream," the Joker says as Batman, blinded by the fluid, can't seem to land a decent punch while the Joker pummels him. Then the Batman collapses while laughing hysterically. He's dead. The Joker has accidentally nicked him with a spiked ring coated with his deadly Joker venom. Well, the Joker's not one to cry over spilled milk. He decides to leave a guessing game for the police and coats the Batman's face with the dissolving fluid, completely eradicating his facial features so that no one will ever be able to identify him. Two-Face finds the story compelling but because the Joker wouldn't turn in an affidavit with the details of his claims, he hasn't had any chance to verify the story. So he asks the Joker for proof. The Joker took photographs, but he has stashed them in a safe place. The court recesses for an hour so the Joker can return with his evidence. His case looks pretty solid. As the Joker leaves, Captain Stingaree, the Clue-Master, Tweeldedee and Tweedledum (and presumably a lot of other villains offstage) congratulate the Clown Prince of Crime on his victory. The Joker isn't the only one who departs. Two-Face sneaks away and tears off his face to reveal the Batman! He's not really dead! He was posing as Two-Face! Batman tracks the Joker to his Ha-hacienda and cuffs him. The Joker responds: HA-HA-HA! I CAN'T IMAGINE HOW YOU DID IT, BATMAN – BUT THIS IS THE MOST FRIGHTFUL JOKE EVER PLAYED ON THE JOKER!
The Joker has one more trick up his sleeve, a metal headband that he slaps over his forehead. The device crates heat that somehow makes the surrounding air bend light, causing distortion and mirages. (The Joker gets a real kick taking a whole page to explain the thing.) Batman isn't very impressed and knocks the Joker senseless within a few panels. After returning the Joker to Arkham, we get an epilogue, "The Testimony of the Batman," as the Caped Crusader tells Commissioner Gordon what happened. The Joker wasn't lying, he was just wildly mistaken. He did kill somebody at the fur warehouse. But it wasn't Batman. It was a young man named Jerry Randall who was obsessed with Batman. He was worried that Batman might be killed, and then who would be there to protect Gotham City from people like the Joker and the Cavalier and Johnny Witts? So young Randall dressed as Batman and frequently went to the scenes of Batman's exploits and trained to be Batman by copying Batman's actions. That was how he ran into the Joker and that was how he got his face dissolved in a Batman suit. Batman feels kind of bad about it. But what can he do aside from masquerading as Two-Face and staging an elaborate prank on Gotham’s underworld in order to find out who killed Jerry Randall in a Batman suit? After explaining it all to Gordon, he disappears into the night and the city celebrates the return of Batman with a fireworks display spelling out: BATMAN IS ALIVE AND WELL -- AND LIVING IN GOTHAM CITY! Here’s why I didn't like this conclusion when I was a kid: Jerry Randall's fate is just too gruesome! And pathetic! He's sincerely trying to do a good deed for Gotham City and he runs into the Joker and he is murdered and gets his face burned off! That’s cold, Clown Prince of Crime! Jerry Randall never did anything to you! Yes, Jerry Randall was not the sharpest knife in the drawer and he was as dumb as sack of Ben Carsons. Yes, Gotham City is frequently an awful awful place where things like this happen pretty regularly. But it was a bit much for me as a teen. Not so much the gruesome nature of Jerry Randall's actual demise (I have had a strong stomach for this stuff from a young age) but because of the hopeless and sad nature of his short and tragic and pathetic life. It didn't sit well with me as a kid. The world is a hard and cruel place and that is doubly true for Gotham City. But this seemed a bit much for me. Poor Jerry Randall was just a blip in the Gotham firmament, a dead bug on the window that's washed away by the windshield wiper before the driver even notices. There's a part of me that still feels that way, but mostly I like this story. I think it was a good idea to include a real fight scene with the Joker to contrast with the rest of the mini-series, which was actually just a bunch of people (interesting people, to be sure) sitting around and talking.
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Post by Action Ace on Dec 30, 2015 19:44:01 GMT -5
7 year old me was floored that Two-Face was really Batman. At the very end, the Joker runs into Two-Face in prison and discovers that the joke was on HIM. He flips out into a dimension of insane that makes the doctors think he's going to kill himself. Of course, the Joker's very next appearance is the Hall of Fame classic two parter in Detective Comics #475 and 476.
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Post by foxley on Dec 30, 2015 20:13:25 GMT -5
Here’s why I didn't like this conclusion when I was a kid: Jerry Randall's fate is just too gruesome! And pathetic! He's sincerely trying to do a good deed for Gotham City and he runs into the Joker and he is murdered and gets his face burned off! That’s cold, Clown Prince of Crime! Jerry Randall never did anything to you! Yes, Jerry Randall was not the sharpest knife in the drawer and he was as dumb as sack of Ben Carsons. Yes, Gotham City is frequently an awful awful place where things like this happen pretty regularly. But it was a bit much for me as a teen. Not so much the gruesome nature of Jerry Randall's actual demise (I have had a strong stomach for this stuff from a young age) but because of the hopeless and sad nature of his short and tragic and pathetic life. It didn't sit well with me as a kid. The world is a hard and cruel place and that is doubly true for Gotham City. But this seemed a bit much for me. Poor Jerry Randall was just a blip in the Gotham firmament, a dead bug on the window that's washed away by the windshield wiper before the driver even notices. There's a part of me that still feels that way, but mostly I like this story. I think it was a good idea to include a real fight scene with the Joker to contrast with the rest of the mini-series, which was actually just a bunch of people (interesting people, to be sure) sitting around and talking. However, if you think about it, the ending also proves that everyone's life has meaning to Batman: everyone's. Jerry was a harmless nobody, but Batman went to the elaborate exercise because it was the only way he could ensure that Jerry's murderer was brought to justice. And to Batman, the effort was worth it.
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Post by Hoosier X on Dec 30, 2015 20:50:26 GMT -5
7 year old me was floored that Two-Face was really Batman. At the very end, the Joker runs into Two-Face in prison and discovers that the joke was on HIM. He flips out into a dimension of insane that makes the doctors think he's going to kill himself. Of course, the Joker's very next appearance is the Hall of Fame classic two parter in Detective Comics #475 and 476. The Joker didn't pine away for long. Detective Comics #475 is cover-dated February 1978, just two months after the final chapter of "Where Were You On The Night Batman Was Killed!"
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