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Post by wickedmountain on Apr 11, 2015 7:55:31 GMT -5
I looked at some of the june solicitations for marvel after this secret wars event and there looks like some awesome titles in my opinion anyway lol. I am a newer collector but to me these events are cool but I understand other collectors opinions/ concerns about them.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Apr 12, 2015 0:49:32 GMT -5
It's interesting to note that for the first few dozen issues of Thor, he was an imitation of Superman. Thank God they added the Asgardian mythos along the way. Couldn't agree more. I've never been able to understand those few dissenting voices that still seem to think that Thor would have been better off if Don Blake was the "real person" who simply gained the power of Thor, as opposed to Blake being Thor with amnesia all along. (John Byrne holds this opinion. Hilariously, one of his long held mantras is to criticize creators for making changes that seemed to say "Stan and Jack got it wrong.") In my eyes, that would have made him too similar, not only to Superman, but more importantly to Captain Marvel. Stan and Jack were right on the money when they made that change later in the run. It opened up a whole new world, literally, of possibilities for the mythos. Making Thor the actual God of Thunder separated him from his Superman/Captain Marvel roots* and allowed him to be his own thing. Besides, Marvel Asgard has to be one of the coolest alternate realms in all of comics. I wanted to live there after reading Walt Simonson's Thor run! *But is that fair? Thor as a character (Yes, he was always a character built over centuries by storytellers.) only predates Superman by over a 1000 years. Methinks it might be Superman and Cap that owe a little gratitude.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Apr 12, 2015 1:01:28 GMT -5
Yeah I think its naive to believe that publishers in the 40s, 50s, 60s, and 70s wouldnt have abused the internet and other media to sell a book or two. Wasnt it the old Marvel publishers philosophy to copy anything that showed signs of selling well, so if book A sold better than average, next month he would have 4 books aping the look of book A. Comics compete against entertainment that is so much more interactive these days, why begrudge them the chance to maximise their exposure ? I totally agree. There was always a strong element of the old carny barker in Stan, the fast-talking salesman who'd tell ya whatever he thought you wanted to hear, in order to sell his product. The difference lies, as mrp says, in the tools that were available at the time, especially if you include in the idea of "tools" the whole administrative aspect which has become much bigger and more tightly controlling. It isn't that the companies were less profit-driven back then, it's that they were less likely to micro-manage every detail of the creative aspect. It's telling that you see the editors interviewed almost as often as the writers now. I don't think that would have been the case in the 70s. There's also the happy coincidence that the totally unforeseeable creative alchemy of artists like Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko with Stan Lee meant that instead of producing tired, note-for-note imitations of DC's superhero line, they came up with something new - in great contrast, IMO, to today's Big 2. No doubt Stan would have been happy to produce those straight imitations if they had sold, but luckily for us, his story-telling instincts got the better of his salesman's instincts - or rather, they worked together, because what was good for the reader turned out to be good for the company too, in the long run. Good points. It does annoy me how often the editors are interviewed, but at least they're being somewhat transparent with this. We all know that those creative summits start with the editors handing out the general mandates for the year (Perhaps delivered in part from "on high" in the corporate sphere.) with the creators modifying the storylines as allowed and as needed. Certainly that's what I've read when people "in the know" have commented about them. According to Steve Englehart (I'm read this in a few interviews featuring him.) it was Stan who basically put a halt to a lot of the innovation that was going on in the late 60's and early 70's as soon as he learned that they had finally overtaken DC in sales. I guess the lesson here is that if you want to be creatively fertile, make sure you have something to fight for and avoid being top dog when it comes to profit margins.
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Post by impulse on Apr 13, 2015 15:46:41 GMT -5
It took me a while, but I finally just about dropped all Marvel books. I got jaded in the last 10 years when the event circus started with the "NOTHING WILL EVER BE THE SAME!!!" stuff, but it was worse. I started noticing increasingly more cases of out-of-character writing to serve the story, oodles of unnecessary spin-offs and tie-ins, and a general lack of focus. After House of M and Decimation there were a dozen X-Titles with overlapping characters, no clear timeline or division of events, a lot covering the same ground, how many one shots, etc?
The straw that broke the camel's back for me was the 8 page preview of the first issue of Avengers vs. x-Men. The writing was so offensively forced and the characters so ludicrously out of character that it just soured me on any lingering devotion I had to Marvel or the X-Line and I effectively dropped all Marvel titles from there except the occasional standalone Punisher run.
So, in short, neither for me, but if I were still on I may now jump off.
**EDIT** I forgot one more thing about it all. A general feeling that I could see the marketing and business plan through the writing was especially evident. It felt like a shameless money grubbing scheme instead of stories in a shared universe that happened to also make money.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Apr 13, 2015 18:42:42 GMT -5
Yeah, it seems Marvel has relegated its "heart" to titles that are non-event books like Daredevil, Hawkeye and Silver Surfer. It's sad that we're never going to see something like "The Dark Phoenix Saga" ever again take place inside a single title, like X-Men, so it's told properly and with the full attention of the creators. Nowadays, the Phoenix Saga would be spread out into a ton of spin-offs and would also be a 12 issue maxi-series.
Don't get me started on the sad state of my beloved Hulk. Alan Davis' great little four issue run in Savage Hulk was the first time I've enjoyed the character since some of the stuff Greg Pak was doing seven years ago. Of course, Davis had to set the Hulk in the past so he could write the "real" version. Don't blame you a bit, Alan.
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Post by Icctrombone on Apr 13, 2015 20:32:05 GMT -5
Yeah, it seems Marvel has relegated its "heart" to titles that are non-event books like Daredevil, Hawkeye and Silver Surfer. It's sad that we're never going to see something like "The Dark Phoenix Saga" ever again take place inside a single title, like X-Men, so it's told properly and with the full attention of the creators. Nowadays, the Phoenix Saga would be spread out into a ton of spin-offs and would also be a 12 issue maxi-series. Don't get me started on the sad state of my beloved Hulk. Alan Davis' great little four issue run in Savage Hulk was the first time I've enjoyed the character since some of the stuff Greg Pak was doing seven years ago. Of course, Davis had to set the Hulk in the past so he could write the "real" version. Don't blame you a bit, Alan. I read the Davis arc and it was " meh". I agree that you won't see a Phoenix or Magus saga again. No more intimate stories in a single title anymore. Oh well, get off my lawn !
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Post by Nowhere Man on Apr 13, 2015 20:36:45 GMT -5
I thought the story was fine taken in the context of a nostalgic romp. Hell, just seeing the classic Hulk drawn by Davis sold me before I read it. I wish there were more in the fanbase to support in-continuity stories set in the past. For those of us that care little about the Marvel Universe post Heroes Return (Really, I'd say about 1993 is my "stopped caring about continuity" cut off and it jumps to 1998-2002) this would be a perfect way to enjoy the characters again.
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Post by the4thpip on Apr 14, 2015 1:51:32 GMT -5
I thought the story was fine taken in the context of a nostalgic romp. Hell, just seeing the classic Hulk drawn by Davis sold me before I read it. I wish there were more in the fanbase to support in-continuity stories set in the past. For those of us that care little about the Marvel Universe post Heroes Return (Really, I'd say about 1993 is my "stopped caring about continuity" cut off and it jumps to 1998-2002) this would be a perfect way to enjoy the characters again. My boyfriend (who is one of the founders of uncannyxmen.net) immediately started disscting if (and why it didn't) that story would fit in between the original X-Men stories and Byrne's Hidden Years series.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Apr 15, 2015 19:09:58 GMT -5
I thought the story was fine taken in the context of a nostalgic romp. Hell, just seeing the classic Hulk drawn by Davis sold me before I read it. I wish there were more in the fanbase to support in-continuity stories set in the past. For those of us that care little about the Marvel Universe post Heroes Return (Really, I'd say about 1993 is my "stopped caring about continuity" cut off and it jumps to 1998-2002) this would be a perfect way to enjoy the characters again. My boyfriend (who is one of the founders of uncannyxmen.net) immediately started disscting if (and why it didn't) that story would fit in between the original X-Men stories and Byrne's Hidden Years series. I'm sure set in the past stories would often conflict with other tales, but I can understand why these older creators would only want to work in the past. The present is an ugly and disorderly place, for the most part, in the Marvel and DC universes.
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