Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Sept 1, 2015 19:55:46 GMT -5
No, it was also six issues long. The same as the adaptation of the first movie. Are you perhaps thinking of the adaptation of Return of the Jedi? That was only 4 issues long. Ah, yes, that must have been that... wasn't the Return of the Jedi one a limited series? Yes, it was. As a way for Marvel to get two Star Wars comics on the shelves every month for a few months there. |
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rossn
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Post by rossn on Sept 1, 2015 20:38:03 GMT -5
I know, Williamson was just made to draw SW and Infantino...just wasn't. I do like Infantino's art a whole lot more than I used to as a kid, but he's just not really suited to the SW universe, in my opinion. Though obviously he's a great artist in his own right. But yeah, I'll take the likes of Al Williamson, Walt Simonson or Ron Frenz over Carmine Infantino any day, as far as my SW comics are concerned. I'm sure I'm about to get into trouble again  but I have to disagree. Williamson's depiction of the faces and objects of Star Wars is certainly more accurate (Infantino never met a Star Destroyers he couldn't give the wrong number of engines too), but at least in the Empire adaptation - I've not read the other Star Wars stuff he did - there is a lifeless grimness to proceedings. The Empire Strikes Back is a dark film but characters still grin and smirk. Everyone in the comic seems to have the same look of stoic determination. Infantino's work has its valleys and peaks but there is a sense of action, humour and life flowing through them that do a better job of capturing the spirit, at least of the first film. |
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Post by tex1272 on Sept 1, 2015 21:16:56 GMT -5
Ah, yes, that must have been that... wasn't the Return of the Jedi one a limited series? Yes, it was. As a way for Marvel to get two Star Wars comics on the shelves every month for a few months there. In fact, as I recall one month in the summer of '83, Marvel had three SW books on the rack at one time with the 3rd annual! |
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Post by tex1272 on Sept 1, 2015 21:19:55 GMT -5
BTW, I recently stumbled upon this thread and am excited to join in!
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Sept 2, 2015 6:28:23 GMT -5
I'm sure I'm about to get into trouble again but I have to disagree. Nah, disagreement is fine, we don't flame people here for their opinions. Even if they're wrong!   Williamson's depiction of the faces and objects of Star Wars is certainly more accurate (Infantino never met a Star Destroyers he couldn't give the wrong number of engines too), but at least in the Empire adaptation - I've not read the other Star Wars stuff he did - there is a lifeless grimness to proceedings. The Empire Strikes Back is a dark film but characters still grin and smirk. Everyone in the comic seems to have the same look of stoic determination. Infantino's work has its valleys and peaks but there is a sense of action, humour and life flowing through them that do a better job of capturing the spirit, at least of the first film. I agree that Infantino's style better captures the more optimistic vibe of the original SW movie, but he would've been so wrong for the Empire adaptation. I just can't imagine how his style would've fitted in and worked. The only way it could've possibly worked would be if you paired him with an inker that had a really strong artistic personality of their own, to somewhat subdue Infantino's overly-angular and highly stylised art. I'm thinking of someone like Tom Palmer here and, in fact, if you look at the art that Infantino and Palmer did in issue #46 ("The Dreams of Cody Sunn-Childe"), that could've worked for an ESB adaptation, I guess. However, I in no way would ever describe Williamson's art as "lifeless". Quite the opposite. It has loads of energy and plenty of movement. Take a look at my favourite panel in my review of issue #39, for example -- the way in which the fallen Rebel soldier is hitting the ground, you can really sense the impact and the movement as he's bowled over on the floor. Likewise, the fury of the attacking Wampas and the desperate shooting of the remaining Rebel soldiers, is full of life and gives the reader a sense of frantic action. |
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Sept 2, 2015 6:34:17 GMT -5
Yes, it was. As a way for Marvel to get two Star Wars comics on the shelves every month for a few months there. In fact, as I recall one month in the summer of '83, Marvel had three SW books on the rack at one time with the 3rd annual! Good catch! You're absolutely right. In the month cover dated December 1983, Star Wars #78, Return of the Jedi #3 and Star Wars Annual #3 were all on the shelves together. BTW, I recently stumbled upon this thread and am excited to join in! Glad to have you join us, tex1272. Please feel free to discuss any of the reviews that I've posted so far, no matter how long ago I might've originally discussed them. And if you're into vintage comic books generally, this forum is a very friendly, welcoming place. So please do have a look around and get stuck in to some discussions. |
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rossn
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Post by rossn on Sept 2, 2015 10:38:34 GMT -5
I'm sure I'm about to get into trouble again but I have to disagree. Nah, disagreement is fine, we don't flame people here for their opinions. Even if they're wrong! Williamson's depiction of the faces and objects of Star Wars is certainly more accurate (Infantino never met a Star Destroyers he couldn't give the wrong number of engines too), but at least in the Empire adaptation - I've not read the other Star Wars stuff he did - there is a lifeless grimness to proceedings. The Empire Strikes Back is a dark film but characters still grin and smirk. Everyone in the comic seems to have the same look of stoic determination. Infantino's work has its valleys and peaks but there is a sense of action, humour and life flowing through them that do a better job of capturing the spirit, at least of the first film. I agree that Infantino's style better captures the more optimistic vibe of the original SW movie, but he would've been so wrong for the Empire adaptation. I just can't imagine how his style would've fitted in and worked. The only way it could've possibly worked would be if you paired him with an inker that had a really strong artistic personality of their own, to somewhat subdue Infantino's overly-angular and highly stylised art. I'm thinking of someone like Tom Palmer here and, in fact, if you look at the art that Infantino and Palmer did in issue #46 ("The Dreams of Cody Sunn-Childe"), that could've worked for an ESB adaptation, I guess. However, I in no way would ever describe Williamson's art as "lifeless". Quite the opposite. It has loads of energy and plenty of movement. Take a look at my favourite panel in my review of issue #39, for example -- the way in which the fallen Rebel soldier is hitting the ground, you can really sense the impact and the movement as he's bowled over on the floor. Likewise, the fury of the attacking Wampas and the desperate shooting of the remaining Rebel soldiers, is full of life and gives the reader a sense of frantic action. Phew, no flames! 'Lifeless' was I admit maybe the wrong word to use; I actually like his take on vehicles a lot and his landscapes too but I do think there is a grimness to Williamson's approach to character that goes beyond what is in the film. As I said before everyone seems to have a look of stoic determination that isn't always appropriate and the writing has to do a lot of the heavy lifting when it comes to other emotions: I'm getting ahead of things but I don't think we see Lando smile at all, which weakens the fakeout anger scene with Han; we also lose Luke's funny (if squicky in retrospect) smirk after Leia kisses him. The reactions of Captain Needa and Admiral Piett to the Falcon escaping are not shown at all - not big losses from a plot necessity point of view true but it does make me wonder if the art style couldn't handle their nuanced reaction. I agree Infantino would have been wrong for Empire, but I'm not convinced Williamson is 'more' right for Star Wars as a whole. |
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Sept 4, 2015 9:56:07 GMT -5
Star Wars #40Cover dated: October 1980 Issue title: Battleground Hoth!Script: Archie Goodwin Artwork: Al Williamson (pencils & inks)/Carlos Garzon (pencils & inks)/Rick Veitch (pencils - uncredited) Colours: Glynis Wein Letters: Rick Veitch Cover art: Al Williamson (pencils & inks)/Carlos Garzon (pencils & inks) Overall rating: 10 out of 10  Plot summary: While Luke Skywalker recovers in the Rebel medical centre from his encounter with a Wampa, he reveals to Princess Leia that he must leave and travel to the Dagobah system to locate the mysterious Jedi Master, Yoda. Leia is upset at this news and, after an angry exchange with Han Solo, she passionately kisses Luke in an attempt to make Han jealous. Meanwhile, the Imperial fleet, led by Darth Vader's Super Star Destroyer, Executor, comes out of lightspeed in the Hoth system. However, Admiral Ozzel has come out of hyperspace too close to the planet where the Rebels are located, thus alerting them to the Imperial's presence. Vader punishes Ozzel by using the Force to choke the Admiral to death, quickly promoting Captain Piett as his replacement. The Imperials then deploy gigantic, armoured AT-AT walkers to the planet's surface, under the command of General Veers. Back on Hoth, Luke Skywalker leads Rogue Squadron against the advancing walkers, in support of Rebel ground troops, as the evacuation of the Rebel base begins. Coming under heavy fire and realising that their on-board blasters are ineffective against the AT-AT's thick armour, Rogue Squadron fly their snowspeeders around the walkers' legs, using harpoons and tow cables to trip them up and destroy them. During the battle, Luke's snowspeeder is hit and crashes into the snowy terrain, as an advancing walker bears down on his craft, ready to crush it with its feet. Comments: This is the best issue of Marvel's Star Wars comic published so far, in my opinion. Last issue was fantastic, but this second instalment of the comic adaptation of The Empire Strikes Back somehow manages to up the ante even further. Archie Goodwin's scripting is superb, as he masterfully adapts Leigh Brackett and Lawrence Kasdan's screenplay to the comic book page and, just like last issue, Al Williamson and Carlos Garzon's artwork is absolutely gorgeous. You can get lost looking at all the lovingly rendered backgrounds and technical detail that Williamson and Garzon cram into every panel here. In addition, Williamson does a very nice job of translating the movie's more tender, character-driven moments, with some really effective poses, facial expressions and moody shadow work. But he also excels at rendering the AT-AT walker assault on the Rebel base – one of the film's biggest and most memorable action sequences – with all the pace, excitement and grandeur of the film itself. Actually, an uncredited Rick Veitch helped Williamson and Garzon out in the panels in which the AT-AT walkers appeared. The reason Veitch ended up pencilling the Imperial walkers was that Williamson and Garzon were both having trouble imagining how the machines would move, since they only had a couple of blurry polaroids of the models to go on, as Veitch explained on his personal blog in 2010... "...both [Carlos] and Al were having trouble envisioning the Imperial Walkers that showed up in the script. Lucasfilm had only sent two grainy polaroids of the model used to create the scenes in the movie. Al was fretting so I offered to try and make sense of it with some sketches. I'd worked as a mechanic in my early years and had a reasonable familiarity with how machinery worked. I spent an hour or two figuring out how the thing would have to function and what the parts we couldn't see in the photos might look like. Al was so delighted he put me to work penciling the Walkers throughout the whole sequence. When the film came out we were delighted to see we'd somehow caught the whole flavor of the Walker attack as staged by director, Irving Kirshner."There can be no doubt that Veitch added considerably to the fluidity and excitement of this sequence, both in this issue and the next. In fact, two years later, during a 1982 interview with James Van Hise, Williamson was still singing Veitch's praises regarding his work on the AT-AT walkers... "We had these poor scratched-up reproductions of a walker and we couldn't really tell what it actually looked like, but good old Rick figured it out and made it work and now they look like swipes from stuff Lucasfilm gave us when actually they aren't. He made those walkers come to life and look exactly like they were supposed to, and that was on top of doing a beautiful job with the lettering." One tiny, nit-picky criticism of Williamson's art in this issue would be that he makes a small gaff by swapping Captain Piett for Admiral Ozzel in the scene where the latter is Force-choked by Darth Vader. In the panel below, it is Ozzel who is being choked, while Piett stands nervously by. However, it's clear from the art that Williamson has mistakenly drawn actor Kenneth Colley (who played Piett) as the one being choked, while Michael Sheard (the actor who played Ozzel) stands close by...  Another minor grumble on the art side of things is that Glynis Wein's colouring in this portion of the adaptation is not quite as effective as Carl Gafford's in The Marvel Comics Illustrated Version of The Empire Strikes Back paperback. That said, the colouring here is more than adequate, but if push comes to shove, I'd have to say that Gafford's colouring of these pages is superior. Just like the first instalment of the Empire adaptation, this issue includes scenes that were ultimately left out of the cinematic release of the movie. For example, the "Wampas in the base" sub-plot from last issue is wrapped up, with C-3PO explaining to R2-D2 that the creatures have been enticed into a sealed off section of the base by high pitched whistles and imprisoned there. Another deleted scene features Luke having a weird, Bacta mask removed from his face, while he and Leia express their affection for each other and almost kiss, only to be interrupted by C-3PO...  The above scene comes right before Han enters the medical centre and has an angry and sarcastic exchange with Leia (a scene that was included in the finished version of the film). The cut scene adds an extra dimension to the moment in the film where Leia says "well, I guess you don't know everything about women yet" and then promptly gives Luke a passionate – though in hindsight, a very uncomfortable and incestuous – kiss. All in all, Star Wars #40 is a hugely enjoyable, right ripping read, with some great dialogue, some fantastic sequential art and all the excitement of the movie. The quick-fire tempo and breathtaking pace of this issue just doesn't let up from start to finish and the reader finds themselves tearing through it at a rapid speed, only slowing momentarily to savour Williamson's exquisite artwork. Star Wars comics just don't come any better than this. Continuity issues: None Favourite panel:  Favourite quote: "Why is it when things seem to get settled...everything falls apart?" – C-3PO rhetorically asks R2-D2 to explain the never ending turmoil of life in the Rebel Alliance.
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rossn
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Post by rossn on Sept 4, 2015 11:39:55 GMT -5
Neat review as always Confessor.  While I have serious issues with the way Williamson draws characters and expressions (which I promise I won't rehash from now on) I do like his vehicles and tech. That AT-AT is genuinely impressive, but I also really like the Star Destroyers and Snowspeeders. |
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Sept 4, 2015 11:49:25 GMT -5
Please note that there are direct links to every issue that I've reviewed so far (77 of 'em!) in the very first post of this thread. So, if there's a specific issue you want, you don't have to trawl through pages and pages of posts searching for it, you can just go here and directly click on the issue that you want. I thought I should mention this for all the new readers that have joined in with this thread recently, just in case some folks weren't aware of the fact.
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Post by tex1272 on Sept 5, 2015 0:32:16 GMT -5
Loving the EMPIRE run! I'm just curious as to why there are so many colorful planets in the scenes in space.
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Post by Gene on Sept 6, 2015 19:44:56 GMT -5
I've never been a fan of the art from the Empire and Jedi adaptations. The illustrations are of a high quality, but they look like isolated film stills. They never really mesh to create a narrative.
A lot of that, in my opinion, looks like it came from Lucasfilm and Fox. They had a huge movie coming out and they wanted the comic to look as much like it as possible. Having to either omit or obscure a lot of the most memorable scenes to avoid spoiling them didn't help either.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Sept 6, 2015 20:24:41 GMT -5
I just recently re-read all the adaptations (my lcs had the Complete Saga omnibus) and Empire Strikes back is definitely the best. I really like that it includes a lot of scenes that were cut from the film and although it has many of the key bits of dialog from the film it still retains its own voice rather than feeling like a scene by scene reproduction.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Sept 13, 2015 11:23:16 GMT -5
I didn't realize that the adaptation of ESB had come so erly after SW#38, the Michael Golden one.
Those were good years for the Star Wars comics, what with the adaptation of the second film and the artistic changes... The brilliant Simonson run was right behind the corner.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Sept 13, 2015 11:48:58 GMT -5
I didn't realize that the adaptation of ESB had come so erly after SW#38, the Michael Golden one. Those were good years for the Star Wars comics, what with the adaptation of the second film and the artistic changes... The brilliant Simonson run was right behind the corner. Yeah, the ESB adaptation is the moment where the series really kicked into high gear, as far as I'm concerned. Even the handful of Goodwin/Infantino issues that followed the adaptation (the last stories that that creative pairing did on the series) were superior to the work that they had done prior to the ESB adapatation. It's almost as if they felt that the ante had been upped by the second movie adaptation and their own original work kicked up a gear to try and match it. From here on out, right up to around issue #90 or so, the series is at its absolute best, in my opinion. You'll be seeing lots more "10 out of 10" issues as we go through that period. |
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but I have to disagree. Williamson's depiction of the faces and objects of Star Wars is certainly more accurate (Infantino never met a Star Destroyers he couldn't give the wrong number of engines too), but at least in the Empire adaptation - I've not read the other Star Wars stuff he did - there is a lifeless grimness to proceedings. The Empire Strikes Back is a dark film but characters still grin and smirk. Everyone in the comic seems to have the same look of stoic determination.
