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Post by sabongero on Feb 27, 2016 8:26:24 GMT -5
What are its best concept(s)?
The X-Men and its various incarnations (X-Factor, Gen X, X-Force...etc) have all been around for years. Although with with a relaunch the writer has a new concept especially if launching a new title. What do you guys think has been the best and worst? In this topic you might consider the following if you like:
X-Factor as double agent mutant hunters/mutants
X-Factor as government sanctioned agents
X-Factor as detective agency.
X-Corporations worldwide
X-Forces militant style
X-Forces 'road trip' concept
Generation X/New Mutants shcool with only about 7 pupils
New X-Men school with numerous pupils
Astonishing 'super hero mutants'
Excalibur in Genosha
etc... (please feel free to add your own)
Even if the run sucked...what do you feel has been the best concept, or worst.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Feb 27, 2016 12:03:53 GMT -5
X-Factor as double agent mutant hunters/mutants : Certainly the worst idea those characters ever had! They're going to help mutantkind by promoting hatred and intolerance during their day job? What kind of nut had that idea??? Oh, yes... it was Cameron Hodge, who was trying to foment hatred and intolerance towards mutants. I guess only the joy of working together again blinded the O5 to the sheer irresponsibility of posing as mutant hunters.
X-Factor as government sanctioned agents : good idea, and X-Factor was certainly a better choice than Freedom Force, who as "bad guys working for the government" predated the Osborn-sanctioned Thunderbolts by decades. Captain America had a similar idea years later when he founded the Uncanny Avengers : mutants working "for the people" will gather more sympathy than if they're working on their own agenda.
X-Factor as detective agency : never read it, no opinion.
X-Corporations worldwide : I don't quite understand what that corporation was supposed to do. Rent telepaths for business negotiations? Use mutant healers for high-cost medical treatments? If so it's a good idea, even if it risks changing the face of the MU world to the extent that we don't recognize it as our own.
X-Forces militant style : a good way to promote hatred towards mutants.
X-Forces 'road trip' concept : meh. Old concept.
Generation X/New Mutants shcool with only about 7 pupils : as an extension of the original concept it's all right, but an increasing roster is just a natural progression.
New X-Men school with numerous pupils : I loved that idea! I was surprised it hadn't been done before.
Astonishing 'super hero mutants' : Blech. After all of Morrison's development, for good or ill, we just returned to the very old concept of superheroes in spandex costumes. The first run by Whedon and cassaday looked great and had an engaging plot, but the concept was a giant step backwards.
Excalibur in Genosha : Didn't read it.
I would add these ideas:
Cyclops as the mutant Malcolm X. That was unfortunate for the character, but a logical development offering many story possibilities.
Mutants founding their own country, whether it be Genosha or Utopia : that's certainly one way to try and find security. That it failed both times just means they have to be more prepared next time, and try to make political allies willing to help defend them.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Feb 27, 2016 16:55:39 GMT -5
X-men as large scale sociological metaphor for the integration of cultures - Good idea. (Loved the Grant Morrison run!)
Every villain created by Roy Thomas that aren't (A) Created in tandem with Neal Adams or (B) Banshee - Bad Idea.
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Post by coke & comics on Feb 28, 2016 5:45:12 GMT -5
X-Factor as double agent mutant hunters/mutants: Made not a lick of sense. Also their two guises were often being called to do things so closely together. A team of 5 people, 1 girl, 1 guy with red glasses disappears and a few minutes later a team of 5 people, 1 girl, 1 guy with red glasses appears wearing different clothes.
X-Factor as government sanctioned agents: I liked it.
X-Factor as detective agency: It was awesome. Anyone (who likes that type of thing) should read the Madrox miniseries which preceded that run. Great mutant Noir.
X-Corporations worldwide: Never really read it. Seemed to make sense. Promote mutants in the open, rather than in hiding.
X-Forces militant style: Concept not insane, but has never been done well
X-Forces 'road trip' concept: Eh
Generation X/New Mutants shcool with only about 7 pupils: These were good concepts.
New X-Men school with numerous pupils: Also a fine concept.
Astonishing 'super hero mutants': It worked.
Excalibur in Genosha: No opinion.
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New X-Men: great idea
Having the X-Men spend so much time in space: not a good idea. Works better when they're fighting for mutant rights.
Having the world think their dead while they live in Australia: I think it worked.
Having so many bloody crossovers: Worst idea. Made it unreadable. In fact, I never finished the private eye X-Factor series because I gave up when it got caught up in some story about someone's kid and Bishop blowing up planets or something.
Having any crossovers whatsoever: Mostly terrible. Mutant Massacre, fine. Blanket story concepts like Fall of the Mutants where each title has its own story are fine. Things like X-Tinction Agenda and X-Cutioner's Song ruined X-Men beyond repemption.
X-Force as reality TV superhero stars who expect to die soon but be rich and famous while alive: Best idea.
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Feb 28, 2016 6:32:42 GMT -5
BTW, I never really thought or read about this : Genosha or Utopia, these would be metaphors for Israel, right? (which feels weird BTW...)
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Post by Gene on Feb 28, 2016 9:57:27 GMT -5
BTW, I never really thought or read about this : Genosha or Utopia, these would be metaphors for Israel, right? (which feels weird BTW...) Genosha was more of a metaphor for apartheid South Africa than anything. Utopia was likely a metaphor for otherwise decent writers not knowing what to do with the characters when they were assigned to write X-Men. |
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Post by Gene on Feb 28, 2016 10:01:57 GMT -5
The O5 X-Factor post-Fall of the Mutants was a great period: Mutants who have been accepted as heroes after saving New York from Apocalypse. It worked especially well when looked at in contrast to the harder edge the X-Men had developed after the Mutant Massacre.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2016 10:27:05 GMT -5
There are too many X-Books.
There, I said it.
Oops, wrong thread...
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Post by spoon on Feb 28, 2016 10:28:19 GMT -5
BTW, I never really thought or read about this : Genosha or Utopia, these would be metaphors for Israel, right? (which feels weird BTW...) Genosha was more of a metaphor for apartheid South Africa than anything. Utopia was likely a metaphor for otherwise decent writers not knowing what to do with the characters when they were assigned to write X-Men. Yeah, I haven't read much of X-Men past 1996 or so, so I can't speak to Genosha's treatment after that. But prior to that time, Genosha was very heavily analogized to South Africa. I think there may have been explicit references to apartheid. |
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Post by sabongero on Feb 28, 2016 10:30:52 GMT -5
The Mutant Registration Act is a precursor to the Superheroes Registration Act, which was a variation of the MRA concept, was utilized for the company-wide crossover big event.
The fallout of the passing of the Mutant Registration Act where the government sanctioned supervillains disguised as superheroes to capture mutants is another precursor to the variation of this concept used during the company-wide crossover during The Dark Reign event.
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Feb 28, 2016 11:35:37 GMT -5
Genosha was more of a metaphor for apartheid South Africa than anything. Utopia was likely a metaphor for otherwise decent writers not knowing what to do with the characters when they were assigned to write X-Men. Yeah, I haven't read much of X-Men past 1996 or so, so I can't speak to Genosha's treatment after that. But prior to that time, Genosha was very heavily analogized to South Africa. I think there may have been explicit references to apartheid. But the similarities with Israel seem much stronger : a country created to host a people with no land of their own, that's exactly what Israel is on a geo-political level, even sociological. And Magneto is jewish. |
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Post by Dizzy D on Feb 28, 2016 14:22:40 GMT -5
Genosha started out as South Africa, then became Bosnia then became its own thing when it just got nuked.
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Post by coke & comics on Feb 28, 2016 14:23:40 GMT -5
The Mutant Registration Act is a precursor to the Superheroes Registration Act, which was a variation of the MRA concept, was utilized for the company-wide crossover big event. The fallout of the passing of the Mutant Registration Act where the government sanctioned supervillains disguised as superheroes to capture mutants is another precursor to the variation of this concept used during the company-wide crossover during The Dark Reign event. At least two company-wide crossover big events. Millar also used the concept in Civil War. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 28, 2016 14:31:01 GMT -5
There are only 2 runs of X-men in the modern era that I like:
The Morrison run up until #150 and the Whedon Astonishing X-men series 1-24. The reason being, that they didn't recycle so much of the same villains and I didn't have to study all the past continuity in order to enjoy those stories.
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Post by tingramretro on Feb 28, 2016 14:42:37 GMT -5
I really liked the original cocept of X-Men, and I think I'm one of the few who genuinely loved pretty much all of teir sixties series (which I read in reprint form in the seventies) probably even more than the Claremont/Cockrum/Byrne run. Sadly, I think I began to lose interest in the franchise when it became a franchise; the first year or two of New Mutants were fine, but the original X-Factor setup made no sense whatsoever and by about 1988 the whole X-universe was so OTT, angst ridden and self important that I found myself increasingly disillusioned by it. I have liked some runs since then, notably Peter David's X-Factor (both times), but I can't help feeling Marvel need to just kill off about 80% of the random mutant characters they have running around and let the X-Men go back to being just one of the component parts of the Marvel Universe instead of existing in this rather sad little ghetto world of their own. It's nowhere near as bad as it was in the 90s, admittedly, but I really don't think most of the X-books and their depressing denizens add anything of value to the MU.
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