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Post by Cei-U! on Jan 10, 2016 18:34:07 GMT -5
This is the place to talk about all the great cartoonists who DIDN'T make your Classic Comics Christmas list this year.
Cei-U!
Let's hear it!
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 10, 2016 18:42:23 GMT -5
Dan Jurgens was on my long first list but His most famous writing gig was Superman which looked like a team effort. His other stuff( Teen Titans, Booster Gold , etc) was only average.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2016 19:07:09 GMT -5
Sophie Campbell. . .just barely missed out my list at #12. HUGE fan of her's since "the Abandoned" (a post apocalyptic zombie book), but mainly a huge fan of her art (I loved her work on Prophet (actually got me to buy a Liefeld book), and she's the only reason that I'm buying the new Jem book. Sophie not only is a stunning artist, reflecting realistic body types (focusing a lot on "alt-cuture" and "Gender-queer" looks), but her writing is so damn relatable -- it's like real people speak. but really. . check out Wet Moon, if you aren't familiar with her. Just a stunning piece of work.    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_Moon |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2016 19:24:35 GMT -5
Two creators that almost made my list, but didn't get mentioned by anyone were Jason Lutes for his work on Berlin, and Jeff Nicholson for his work on Colonia Lutes...  This is a personal drama and period piece set in Germany between the World Wars and is absolutely phenomenally crafted comics.   I first discovered Lutes when he collaborated with Ed Brubaker on this book...  I went back and forth on Lutes and Sacco again and again, but Sacco had the larger body of work so I went with him. Nicholson's Colonia is a more whimsical fantasy set on an alternate earth where there was no human settlement in the Americas when the Europeans arrived, but it was a land where mythic elements were real...   Nicholson was a self-publishing cartoonist who worked full time day job to be able to afford to print the issues he did, so there was often long lags between issues and the series folded after 2 trades worth of material. I first discovered Nicholson during the black and white boom/bust of the mid-80s doing a semi-parody book called Ultra Klutz  the first issue of which I bought featured the Justice Louts of America, a group of deadbeat super-heroes...  (and for Shax and his JL thread....)  he also did the Eisner nominated mini Father and Son...  Two others I really wanted to fit in, but just couldn't make room were Eric Shanower and Carla Speed McNeil, but both got mentioned. I remembered Shanower too late, and had I thought of him earlier, he may have replaced Herge on my list. Moebius and Druillet were on my initial draft, but I found I am more fond of their art than writing, and most of what I read from Moebius has been in collaboration with others not him doing all of the heavy lifting, so I left them both off the list. I decided early on that I wasn't going to include strip artists because there were just too man long form cartoonists I wanted to include, but Charles Schultz would have been near the top of my list if I had, and Berkeley Breathed and Bill Watterson both likely would have been included. Milton Caniff would also have gotten strong consideration, and Alex Raymond if he had been eligible on the writing end. I am actually surprised at myself for not including Jim Starlin, who has been a favorite creator of mine since 1977, and Joe Kubert but I just wasn't satisfied with taking someone I included off the list for them. Jack Kirby, Jim Steranko and Walt Simonson were the other more mainstream choices who got consideration from me and Steranko was on an early draft of the final list until I remembered a bunch more cartoonists to consider. Trina Robbins was another I wanted to give consideration to, but most of the stuff I have read by her was either her drawing only or writing only (and too modern like the Chicagoland Detective Agency). Darwyn Cooke got consideration as well, and though New Frontier snuck in under the eligibility wire, I just felt he was a bit too contemporary to include this year. Francesco Francavilla would have gotten strong consideration for Black Beetle if it had been date eligible, and he is the one modern cartoonists I am pretty sure will fond a place on this list eventually for me. There are a number of cartoonists who got mentioned, who might have gotten consideration if I was more personally familiar with their work, and not just familiar with it on reputation alone. Dave Sim, Los Brothers Hernandez, Jack Katz, Terry Moore (though I have read the first volume of Rachel Rising, it was not eligible by date and I haven;t read Strangers in Paradise), Carl Barks and Don Rosa are among those in that category. I seriously could have gone for 25 days of Christmas and not run out of options for folks whose work I absolutely adore and deserved recognition on a list like this, and I would still have a list of regrets of people whose work I could not include. -M |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jan 10, 2016 20:09:27 GMT -5
The two cartoonists who made my long list that I don't think were mentioned by anyone else were... Noel Sickles. Best known for is work on Scorchy Smith, Sickles was a studio mate and a huge influence on Milton Caniff early in Caniff's career. I'm not sure there was anyone who did better work with inks than Sickles did.  The other is Herb Block. Unquestionably one of the greatest political cartoonists of all time, Block aimed squarely at Joseph McCarthy and hit the target without ever flinching.   |
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Post by benday-dot on Jan 10, 2016 20:12:02 GMT -5
Sergio Toppi... how did you not make it on my list? The fault lies only with my failed memory.   |
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Post by MWGallaher on Jan 10, 2016 21:15:55 GMT -5
I entirely forgot about Bob Burden, of Flaming Carrot and Mystery Men fame.
As I mentioned on one of the days, I've realized that the fiction that interests me most has a surreal aspect, and leaves much unexplained, open for the consumer to fill in the blanks, and Burden's work does just that. It's bizarre, but retains a real sense of heart and warmth, which can be a hard thing to pull off when you veer too far off the conventional paths. If I were doing this over again, Burden would be among my twelve. I don't know who he'd replace, but he'd be there.
Others I strongly considered were:
David Boswell. His Reid Fleming, World's Toughest Milkman is also absurd, hilarious, and a bit surreal. It's not only one of the funniest things I've read, it's one that really sticks with me. Reid's addiction to the tv soap, "The Dangers of Ivan", in which Ivan laid in a coma for months, well, that just slayed me...and then, when the series became "The Horrors of Ivan", when Ivan rose from the dead...well, it slayed me more.
Guy Colwell. His series Doll was a real masterpiece. A plot that really doesn't have any parallels, a science fiction work in its purest form, postulating a single scientific development--in this case, the creation of a nearly perfect sex doll--and then pursuing that idea over the range of human responses. Psychology, sociology, adventure, and, yes, pornography, but in a context that was truly enlightening, informative, and critical to the entire concept of the work.
Of the cartoonists that others proclaimed among their favorites, there was only one that I just cannot seem to appreciate in any way. I won't say who, but it's someone whose work I find derivative, ugly, repetitive, and exploitative, but who has gained so much success and favor that I still wonder what it is that I am missing. But if you dig it, more power to you!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2016 21:21:53 GMT -5
When you mentioned Burden and Flaming Carrot, I remembered another who I should have thought of...Paul Chadwick and Concrete*. I first saw Flaming Carrot and Concrete around the same time and both are inextricably linked in my mind.
-M
*and World Below
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Post by coke & comics on Jan 10, 2016 23:16:11 GMT -5
An artist I just plain forgot to consider:
Alan Davis (Captain Britain)
Artists for whom the work I would spotlight was too new for the thread (even if the artist was eligible for other work):
Alison Beichdel (Fun Home)
Matt Kindt (Mind Mgmt)
Nick Abadzis (Laika)
Raina Telgemeier (Smile)
Sharon Varon (Robot Dreams)
Scott Chantler (Two Generals)
Rutu Modan (Exit Wounds)
Artists I considered generally recognized as "the best", but for whom I have less of a personal connection:
Carl Barks (Uncle Scrooge)
Don Rosa (Uncle Scrooge)
Will Eisner (The Dreamer)
Jack Kirby (Fourth World)
Joe Kubert (Fax from Sarajevo)
Joe Sacco (Palestine)
Jason Lutes (Berlin)
Charles Schultz (Peanuts)
Art Spiegelman (Maus)
Artists whose eligibility I struggled with, because my favorite work of theirs wasn't eligible or I was uncertain of its eligibility:
Wally Wood (assorted 50s sci/fi stories)
Steve Ditko (Shade the Changing Man)
Wendy Pini (Elfquest)
Artists who made eligible works I love, but who I decided I appreciate more for their writing than their art:
Brian Michael Bendis (Jinx)
Ed Brubaker (A Complete Lowlife)
Tom Beland (True Story Swear to God)
Randall Munroe (Xkcd)
Ben Edlund (The Tick)
Other artists who were contenders:
John Byrne (Fantastic Four)
Linda Medley (Castle Waiting)
Paul Chadwick (Concrete)
Mike Grell (Green Arrow)
Walt Simonson (Thor)
Barry Windsor-Smith (Weapon X)
Gary Larson (Far Side)
Tad Naifeh (Courtney Crumrin)
David Lapham (Murder Me Dead)
Marjane Satrapi (Persepolis)
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Post by coke & comics on Jan 11, 2016 2:08:24 GMT -5
Artists for whom the work I would spotlight was too new for the thread (even if the artist was eligible for other work): Alison Beichdel (Fun Home) Matt Kindt (Mind Mgmt) Nick Abadzis (Laika) Raina Telgemeier (Smile) Sharon Varon (Robot Dreams) Scott Chantler (Two Generals) Rutu Modan (Exit Wounds) Man, looking closer at that, I think the classic rule really defined my choices. If we do this same Christmas in the future, and those works are eligible, I expect most to be in my top 12. |
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Post by foxley on Jan 11, 2016 2:09:35 GMT -5
My near-misses:
Murray Ball was on my original list, but I ultimately decided that attempting to chose between comic book creators and comic strip creators was like comparing apples and oranges and that I needed to focus on one or the other (although Frank Cho straddled the line between the two mediums). As I had more comic book creators on my list, I decided to concentrate on comic books. Additionally, there was a risk that if I did comic strip creators, my list would end up looking too much like from 12 Favourite Comic Strips list from a few years back.
Will Eisner and Dave Stevens were both on my original list. However, on reflection, I decided that while I have enjoyed what I have read from these two creators, I have not read enough to say they are truly among my favourites and I was merely parroting the popular opinion I had read which always listed them as among the greatest. Figuring these two would get enough love without me, and I decided to focus my list on creators who meant more to me.
George Perez was a narrow miss. He is one of my all-time favourite artists, and I like his writing. Maybe if Crimson Plague had managed to run more than single issue he might have got a spot. However, my favourite work of his is Teen Titans, and that was a perfect combination of his art and Wolfman's writing. So I gave my 12th spot to Bernie Wrightson, as I thought many people might be unaware of his work as writer and felt it deserves some exposure.
John Byrne was considered, and a few years ago, he probably would have made it. But I have found myself becoming increasingly dissatisfied and irritated by his work in recent years. On consideration, I realised that the things that irritate me about him stretch back to our 'classic' period; especially his habit of completely disregarding everything that has occurred in a title before he started writing it. And his recent continuation of Next Men (which I have always considered his best work) was such a confusing and disjointed mess that it left a very sour taste in my mouth. In my personal canon, Next Men ended with #30 of the Dark Horse Series. Eventually I decided that - unlike Frank Miller - the stuff I liked from Bryne did not outweigh his faults.
Joe Kubert and Alan Davis probably would have made my list if I had not just plain forgot them. I primarily think of them as artists, so it somehow slipped my mind that Kubert also wrote my favourite adaptation of Tarzan. And when I think of Davis, my first thought is always his partnership with Mike W. Barr (which made my 12 Favourite Writer/Penciller Teams).
Don Martin got excluded because I felt he was closer to a strip cartoonist than a comic book creator.
Peyo nearly made it for sheer nostalgia. The Smurfs were an important part of my childhood and King Smurf would have been one of the first books I purchased with my own money. On a Top 20 he definitely would have been there.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2016 3:31:28 GMT -5
My near-misses: George Perez was a narrow miss. He is one of my all-time favourite artists, and I like his writing. Maybe if Crimson Plague had managed to run more than single issue he might have got a spot. However, my favourite work of his is Teen Titans, and that was perfect combination of his art and Wolfman's writing. So I gave my 12th spot to Bernie Wrightson, as I thought many people might be unaware of his work as writer and it deserves some exposure. It did last more than a single issue-not the first time-the first attempt had 1 issue published by Event Comics...  but it had a relaunch under the Gorilla Comics imprint distributed by Image and this time it lasted...   ... 2 whole issues!  -M |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2016 6:31:22 GMT -5
I think the only one of my misses that didn't get picked up by anyone else was Jeff Mallett for Frazz
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Post by MDG on Jan 11, 2016 12:53:32 GMT -5
There are the folks who were in my initial brain dump but didn't make the final cut:
Adrian Tomine (Optic Nerve)
Al Jaffee (MAD)
BC Boyer (The Masked Man)
Bill Griffith (less the Zippy strip than his earlier UG work, and his recent GN Invisible Ink)
Carl Barks (Ducks)
Carol Lay (Good Girls)
Don Martin (MAD)
Jack Kirby (mainly Kamandi and Demon) (also FF, but I don’t want to get into a big thing)
Johnny Craig (EC work)
Justin Green (undergrounds, The Sign Game)
Keith Giffen (Ambush Bug, JLA, regardless of multiple collaborators)
Michael Allred (Madman)
MK Brown (mainly NatLamp)
Paul Chadwick (Concrete)
Richard Corben (UGs)
Richard Sala (Raw, other anthologies)
Rick Geary (all over)
Robert Crumb (all over)
Scott McLeod (Zot!, Understanding Comics)
Sergio Arogenes (all over)
Wm Messner-Loebs (mainly Journey)
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jan 11, 2016 13:11:16 GMT -5
Sophie Campbell. . .just barely missed out my list at #12. HUGE fan of her's since "the Abandoned" (a post apocalyptic zombie book), but mainly a huge fan of her art (I loved her work on Prophet (actually got me to buy a Liefeld book), and she's the only reason that I'm buying the new Jem book. Sophie not only is a stunning artist, reflecting realistic body types (focusing a lot on "alt-cuture" and "Gender-queer" looks), but her writing is so damn relatable -- it's like real people speak. but really. . check out Wet Moon, if you aren't familiar with her. Just a stunning piece of work. God, is that ten years old. Geez. People who should might have made my list but didn't... Chynna Clugston Major - ended up on my lists for these things (in the top three) a couple times. Kirby - Used an inker on damn near everything he wrote. Dave McKean - I love Cages, but it's really his only major work, right? Dan Clowes - I put him at # 2 last year. I'm trying not to repeat myself TOO much. Jaimie Hernandez - Really only room for one Hernandez Bro., and I'm 50.01% a Gilbert guy. John Stanley - Didn't do EVERYTHING on most of the stuff he wrote/drew. Plus I figured he'd show up on a lot of lists. Sheldon Mayer - My # 13. Brandon Graham, Theo Elsworth, Kagan McCleod, Kate Beaton, Kiyohiko Azuma, Cathy Malkasian were too late for the ten year mark. |
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