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Post by tolworthy on Dec 30, 2021 16:54:25 GMT -5
This isn't the last page, but it gives a better idea of the cliffhanger. The Thing (1983) #35. This had the cliffhanger that I was most excited about. In hindsight, it's because I didn't pay attention to the story. But I remember at the time being very moved and impressed by this story. In my mind, it was a hugely important story: it finally shows the real world downside of having powers - all the times that getting powers went wrong. We learn that a whole lot of people with powers need tablets and get painful side effects: you are basically pushing your body way past what it was designed to do. This story really hit me, like a revelation. I was sixteen and wanted stories to be serious!  It ends with Sharon realising the harsh reality of what it means to get powers - basically pain and drugs and entering a dark underworld, and Ben resolves to help her. I could not wait for the next issue!  Now in hindsight I was just not paying attention. The failed experiments were real, but were basically forgotten after this story. And the pain was not really a side effect of the powers, but the bad guy was just drugging his people: take away the drugs, and the powers are fine. So this story was not about the dark side of having power, I just didn't read it carefully enough. I remember being very disappointed in the next issue, because it was kind of "with one leap our hero was free". I held out some hope that it would still go super dark and emotional (I was sixteen, remember). Because the next issue is where Ben mutates. But that was another disappointment (to me). It was presented as this very important and meaningful thing, especially in the Barry Windsor Smith pages of triple sized FF 296 that continue the story. But after that Ben was fine, and more powerful than ever, and enjoying life more than ever. So the Thing #35 was the best cliff-hanger I ever read. But all because I was a self obsessed teenager who didn't pay attention and had created a different story in my head. I live in my own little world... |
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Post by tolworthy on Aug 29, 2021 3:00:39 GMT -5
1. Costumes that obstruct your vision. E.g. hoods that almost cover your eyes. How can you fight? How can you see the guy sneaking up on your left?
 I was going to list all kinds of costume problems, e.g. women having painted on costumes (no pockets), Batman's cape, etc. But most of them are parts of the sexy power fantasy, so OK. But I think we could let heroes **actually see** without ruining the fun. 2. Shrunken head syndrome. REAL artists can make guys look muscular AND draw normal sized heads.    |
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Post by tolworthy on Aug 29, 2021 2:41:02 GMT -5
This happens more in movies than in comics I think. Have kids smarter and wittier than the adults. GOD I HATE THAT! It is one of the reasons I stopped reading FF over the last several years. Not to mention that there has to be a child version of almost every adult hero. Tell me about it! I already have serious, serious issues with how Mr Fantastic can just invent anything, any time. But fine, if that is the story you want to tell., I suppose we can find some excuse, based on his enormous and highly unique experience. But then Valeria is smarter...? |
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Post by tolworthy on Jul 14, 2021 6:32:49 GMT -5
Hi guys! A couple of years ago I posted a thread about Thor, using just the art and not the dialogue. Over the years I've posted various weird theories like that to various corners of the Internet, and several people said I should put it all in one place in a book. So here it is:
Basically I take forty well known stories and reverse engineer them to see what Jack dropped onto Stan's desk each month. One of the theories has been confirmed by a collector who asked not to be named: the original origin of Dr Doom is legit. The other theories are "judge for yourself". The book is aimed at hardcore nerds who already own the comics (or can find access to them), so there are very few images. but I do include two complete Blue Bolt stories so I can show what makes a Kirby story different. I am not planning to make any money on this so if you just want the original digital files for free then PM me. But it does look better on paper. Lastly, I am off to work in ten minutes, so if I don't reply until tonight I apologise for being rude. Enjoy!
Bonus chapter: how all of Kirby's stories fit together into a single universe, spanning 1938 to 1993. Full chapter list:
The lost Fantastic Four stories
The lost Ant-Man stories
The lost Black Widow origin
The lost Hulk stories
The lost Spider-Man
The lost Thor stories
The lost Iron Man stories
The lost X-Men stories
The lost Dr Strange origin
The lost Nick Fury
The lost Captain Marvel
The lost New Gods ending
The lost Atlas stories
Rejected titles
How the stories fit together
How to recognise a Kirby story
The biggest section (over 60 pages) is on the Fantastic Four, The Spider-Man section is very short, so don't get too excited about that one - I basically just quote Jim Shooter on seeing Jack's original plans, and then I speculate about what a Kirby Spider-Man would have been like. The most controversial part is probrably where I argue that Ditko's Dr Strange evolved from Kirby's Dr Strange, but feel free to ignore any theories you think are too off the wall. Enjoy!
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Post by tolworthy on Feb 14, 2021 17:58:57 GMT -5
The plot of this issue is that Alicia Masters gets kidnapped and he's forced to fight her in Shea Stadium. [/quote] A one sided "fight" as Bashful Benjy isn't one to slug it out with a woman, especially when he is more worried over Alicia. So more like Benjy holding back, not using all his strength, mentally/emotionally distracted, underestimated Thundra and she uses all of that to her advantage. Grimm defeated himself is more like it. [/quote] Not only that, but he was injured AND very sick at the time. Previous issues:  |
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Post by tolworthy on Jan 4, 2021 6:16:34 GMT -5
This is easy! Three answers: Nostalgia? Fantastic Four. Love it. Best stories for first time readers? His early romance or police work. Just a pleasure from start to end. Those little pieces of fun are masterpieces: no wonder they outsold anything else he ever did (on first printing). IIRC, Captain America peaked at 900,000 but Young Romance hit a million and began a new genre. Best stories for repeat reading? For me it's Captain Victory, no question. I voted for CV, the elderly Kirby's reflections on victory over death. No hesitation. On first reading, Captain Victory is not as rewarding as the romance or police stories. The first time I read it I just saw old themes cranked up to absurd lengths, and Kirby's failing eyesight was obvious. Plus I though the stories took too long to get anywhere. Because there is so much talk. So it was back to the Fantastic Four for me! On second reading, I noticed that the art was better than I thought. Sure, faces were sometimes ten percent wrong, but so what? I know what faces look like, I can mentally filter that. But the layouts, the pacing, the scale of the concepts -no other artist could match that. I also started to notice that the writing was not just filler. The talk is the important part. The stories no longer felt that they took ages to get anywhere. They are full of stuff. On third reading I began to see CV as the crowning work of comics' greatest writer. At that point I made this web page: ten reason why CV is the greatest comic you've never read. zak-site.com/Great-American-Novel/Captain_Victory.html I wrote that years ago, when I was still new to the good Captain. Today of course I would write it differently. And spell "insectons" right! On fourth reading I began to see the characters as real people. I recall someone saying that Kirby's characters are interchangeable. That is like saying that Chinese people are interchangeable. As if Bruce Lee, Jack Ma and Mao Tse-tung are interchangeable. I disagree of course. The Captain, Klavus and Mr Mind are like real people to me. Every time I open the book it seems like they are having new arguments. For me, the book "Captain Victory" is like Hamlet: we can endlessly find different angles. (Personally I think CV is much better than Hamlet, but that is a very unpopular view. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, right?) Every time I re-read Captain Victory I find something new and more wonderful. I am currently on my fifth reading. Now I just dip into a page or two and enjoy the pleasure of discovering new things. One of the running themes of CV (and one of the running themes of Kirby's work from the beginning) is higher dimensions. Kirby's previous work dealt with the fourth dimension, and occasionally the fifth. This epic is Kirby's love affair with a woman of the eighth dimension. I hate to be a cultural snob (oh who am I kidding? You know I LOVE being a cultural snob) but look at the following image. If all that you see is stiff poses and bad lettering, then Captain Victory definitely isn't for you.  |
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Post by tolworthy on Dec 26, 2020 5:31:56 GMT -5
the ONLY writer in those 18 issues who REALLY seemed to know what the hell he was doing. [...]
Sadly, the editor kicked the entire team who did that issue off the book before it ever got to the printers This should be its own thread: writers who were kicked off despite being better than their replacements. For me, Karl Kesel would be high on the list. Years ago (2005 ish) I tried very hard to like the current Fantastic Four. But it looked like editorial constraints made it impossible to write good stories. Merchandising, movies, events, editors with no experience, etc. It seemed to me that Kesel could walk that tightrope like nobody else. Now to be clear, there are much better writers, IF those writers are given real freedom. But that is not how big name comics work. For working within the straightjacket, I think Kesel was the best. Take for example FF annual 1998, where the team meet real world, real time, real date versions of themselves. Kesel was able to add a fresh and interesting story that really mattered, it was a real game changer, yet without making a single change to the licensed properties. So I was very excited to see Kesel finally being given the main title at last. I duly paid for a subscription. But then found out he was hamstrung: he was brought in as a fixer: he had to rescue an existing plot that was no good, and then the title was due to be shut four issues later anyway. Anyone else have favourite writers who seem to be overlooked in favour of big names who are not as good? |
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Post by tolworthy on Dec 25, 2020 12:24:27 GMT -5
Thanks. It's great to see talented creative people doing their magic. This leads to a run on question. What do you think Kirby intended the Supreme Intelligence to be? What do you think? What does the Supreme Intelligence art suggest to you? Might Jack be thinking more Wizard of Oz? I think of SI being very similar. A hidden all powerful/intelligence secretly guiding (or manipulating?) others. A giant floating mystical or scientifically created head, to personify "all knowing"? Also of note, in Kirby's art all of those tendrils (not tentacles) feed into the SI's cranium from beyond the panels, meaning to me he is either connected to some greater source or even being "fed" his information. Which is also an implication perhaps Supreme is NOT as SUPREME as he presents himself. The Intelligence presented can just as readily be interpreted as a false face of power being controlled or used from behind the scenes by those in political power. A way to guide, control, enforce or manipulate others for doing their bidding. If everyone "buys" into the false presentation then they may be less inclined to revolt or believe they are being controlled. And if you do revolt, your anger and focus is on a presumed leader and NOT the true invisible covert power behind the throne. Love it! I never thought of that. It fits well with Kirby's love of history: how dictators are seldom as powerful or clever as they claim. |
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Post by tolworthy on Dec 25, 2020 4:40:36 GMT -5
The rest of the story does not feature the Supreme Intelligence, except in references by the Ronan the Accuser (his first appearance). From those references I think Kirby was going for something like God: the regular Kree look like humans, and do what the S.I says. S.I is not actually God in the ultimate sense, as Ronan questions his decisions, but Ronan would never dream of disobeying. (Or would he? The story works well as the setup for Ronan eventually going rogue: that is, he foreshadows the Marvel version of Captain Marvel, the rogue Kree warrior) |
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Post by tolworthy on Dec 24, 2020 18:50:17 GMT -5
Thanks. It's great to see talented creative people doing their magic. This leads to a run on question. What do you think Kirby intended the Supreme Intelligence to be?  A friend of mine (who has an impressive track record) wondered if Kirby intended the Supreme Intelligence to be something like Mr Mind. Here is the case for the S.I. being a worm: 1. Scale is ambiguous. Could be big or small. 2. Tentacles are more common in tiny creatures. 3. The tentacles form a great cosmic web. Webs are also more common in tiny creatures. 4. The face is very alien. On Earth, the most alien looking things are tiny. 5. There is nothing to indicate a human body: if we extrapolate the almost shapeless "shoulders" then it become wormlike. 6. The headgear looks like headphones: an equivalent to Mr Mind's microphone? Kirby liked Captain Marvel (he worked on an early issue, and suggested a similar child-adult dynamic for Spider-Man). Kirby didn't read many comics, but Mr Mind was published around the month that Kirby went to war, so he may have read it as a soldier? The evidence AGAINST the worm theory is the odd shape on page 1. This looks like some of Kirby's higher dimensional art. So the SI would be a higher dimensional being. So the face is just a convenience: if talking to a human it would presumably assume be a human size? But on the other hand, this image only appears inside their brains as they sleep, so perhaps that makes it tiny? What do you think? What does the Supreme Intelligence art suggest to you? |
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Post by tolworthy on Dec 24, 2020 10:53:12 GMT -5
Was Mr Mind an original idea? Were there other similar characters in other media? (I mean, a powerful genius who is physically a worm or other low status animal.)  |
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Post by tolworthy on Dec 21, 2020 18:43:06 GMT -5
Question about 1930s comics and radio shows: in Blue Bolt 1, the villain, the Green Sorceress is apparently named "Norzimo". Any idea why?  As far as I know, Joe Simon wrote Blue Bolt #1, and Kirby did not come on board until issue 2. It looks like Simon modelled Blue Bolt on Flash Gordon: my first clue was Dr Bertoff (Dr Zarkoff). Bolt, the "lightning man" is like Flash. The set up and adventures are very similar, but in an underground world instead of outer space. So the Green Sorceress combines the features of Ming, Princess Aura and Dale Arden. But "Norzimo" sounds odd. It seems somehow familiar. Obviously it isn't a straight copy of anything, but it just sounds like, I dunno, Wizard of Oz? Something else? Is anyone familiar with 1930s adventures? Blue Bolt would be written in early 1940. What would have influenced a name like Norzimo? |
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Post by tolworthy on Dec 20, 2020 3:29:16 GMT -5
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Post by tolworthy on Dec 19, 2020 15:23:07 GMT -5
Hey tolworthy , it's good to see you back and posting. We needed a stronger Fantastic Four presence. Thanks! It's good to check back here. This is one of the best parts of the Internet. |
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Post by tolworthy on Dec 14, 2020 5:59:02 GMT -5
You missed the best one!! Super Spider-Man with the Superheroes. So good, the name was there twice!!  OK, as a technicality "with the superheroes" was due to a recent merger with another comic, but childhood me did not know that. I was just knocked over by the wild shouting of the title! It made Stan Lee look shy! And even better was the content: this was the era when they printed two pages to a page. Kids have much better eyesight than adults, and kids like me had very little money. So fifty plus pages of story each week was like being in heaven. And it reprinted the early 197ps stories that were the wildest of all. These days I am old and cynical and take comics far too seriously, but f they had stayed like this I could forgive anything. |
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It ends with Sharon realising the harsh reality of what it means to get powers - basically pain and drugs and entering a dark underworld, and Ben resolves to help her. I could not wait for the next issue!
