Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,123
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Post by Confessor on Aug 31, 2024 8:51:02 GMT -5
Personally, I absolutely consider Untold Tales of Spider-Man to be canon. Of course, by its very nature it is full of retcons, but I have no problem with that. It is definitely canon. In my comic collection, I have those issues slotted in the appropriate place between the early issues of Amazing Spider-Man (reprinted in Marvel Tales, not the originals!).
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Post by jtrw2024 on Aug 31, 2024 9:05:20 GMT -5
Personally, I absolutely consider Untold Tales of Spider-Man to be canon. Of course, by its very nature it is full of retcons, but I have no problem with that. It is definitely canon. In my comic collection, I have those issues slotted in the appropriate place between the early issues of Amazing Spider-Man (reprinted in Marvel Tales, not the originals!). Untold Tales of Spider-man was good enough to include timeline charts in a couple of its issues to show when its stories took place in relation to the original Amazing Spider-man stories. Please tell me though that you didn't tear your copy of Amazing Spider-man 8 in half so that you could slot the second story after Amazing Spider-man 21?
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,123
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Post by Confessor on Aug 31, 2024 10:18:06 GMT -5
Please tell me though that you didn't tear your copy of Amazing Spider-man 8 in half so that you could slot the second story after Amazing Spider-man 21? Ha! No...but I do have stickers on the outside of the poly bags of certain Marvel Tales issues to tell me where some of those Untold Tales... issues slot in if they occur mid-issue. The stickers have messages on them like, "This comic takes place between panels 3 and 4 of page 11 of Marvel Tales #160 (ASM #22)" (or something similar). It's not even just Untold Tales... that I do that with either: in order to fit the events of Spectacular Spider-Man Magazine #2 into the events of concurrent issues of Amazing Spider-Man, I have a sticker on the poly bag with instructions on how to split the mag up to make it fit, like... - Amazing Spider-Man #66 - p.1-5, panel 3
- Spectacular Spider-Man Magazine #2 - p.1-17, panel 1
- Amazing Spider-Man #66 - p.5, panel 4 - p.10, panel 4
- ...etc, etc
Seriously, it's like an illness with me!
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Post by tarkintino on Aug 31, 2024 10:58:05 GMT -5
THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN Annual 2 (reprinted in Marvel Tales 167) The Romita version begins with The Amazing Spider-Man #108 (May, 1972), running for seven years: The cover would be redrawn in 1979, as Spider-Man--Marvel's top ancillary market money-generator (with the Hulk in the race) would be used as a giveaway tie-in for All laundry detergent: Note the use of several of Romita's well-known licensing art for Spider-Man serving as the small figures. The issue reprints an updated and re-titled "The Origin of Spider-Man" from its original "On Wings of Death!" from TASM #94 (March, 1971) with the story truncated to focus only on the origin. This issue also reprints "The Secrets of Spider-Man!" / "Secrets of Spider-Man's Mask" (TASM Annual #1 / 1964), and "Where Flies the Beetle...!" (TASM #21 / February, 1965), wrapping up with a Spider-Man ad for the detergent.
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Post by jtrw2024 on Aug 31, 2024 18:20:43 GMT -5
THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 29 (reprinted in Marvel Tales 168) “Never Step on a Scorpion! or... you think it's easy to dream up titles like this?” Credits (as they appear in the comic): Writing and Editing by Stan Lee Plotting and Drawing by Steve Ditko Lettering and Bordering by Sam Rosen Coloring and Clowning by Julianna Ferriter Plot Synopsis: The Scorpion is back for revenge against the two people he hates the most, J. Jonah Jameson and Spider-man! Comments: After a couple years of almost always wearing the same clothes, Peter goes out and buys a new outfit. He mentions his old ones seem to be getting too tight and that he’s probably put on some weight. Looking at the way Steve Ditko draws him in this story, you can tell he’s certainly grown since getting bit by that radioactive spider. Another few months of this and he’ll probably start to look like a character out of a Johnny Romita comic! The Scorpion has broken out of prison, and while he may seem crazy, his perfectly sane, expository monologue explains that he only pretended to crack up so that the prison guards would return his costume (which he has also managed to repair). It's not just the Scorpion who's back. This issue actually features the return of another foe who hasn't been seen since issue 20. Well, Ned Leeds isn't really a villain, but he's as much a threat to Peter's relationship with Betty as the Scorpion is to Spider-man's career as a web-slinging superhero! Even though he hasn't been seen for quite a few issues, Ned Leeds' presence has still been felt in these pages the last few months. Peter and Betty’s relationship has been troubled for quite some time, and the return of Ned Leeds this issue will only make things worse. Since it's never too early to start planting seeds for future stories, a brief conversation between Jameson and Foswell sets up a couple new plots which will play out over the next few issues. After the Scorpion escapes from prison, there’s not much to the plot beyond straight forward revenge and a big fight between the two costumed arachnids. Sometimes that’s all you need. The battle starts off at the Daily Bugle and carries out to the rooftops, ending with a swim in the Hudson River. The fight scenes involve the usual amount of banter between Spidey and Scorps, which is especially impressive since at the end, they’re fighting under water. Not sure if this was how it was intended, but the way I imagine it happening is that they’re bobbing above and below the surface as they fight and the spoken dialogue is only supposed to be heard when their heads are up. Otherwise it'd just be panels of them going “glub,glub,glub” With the Scorpion back in prison, Jameson is off the hook again, and no one else knows of his culpability in creating this menace in the first place. Aside from all the other questionable things Jameson has done, I still think hiding his involvement in the Scorpion's creation is the worst up til this point. A few issues ago we saw him go after Spider-man with a robot, but I don't think there's any specific law against that. The robot had his face, after all, so no one can accuse him of hiding anything there. Plus the robot's offensive features were non-lethal and specifically designed to capture Spider-man, not kill him. The Scorpion though, that's another matter. Luckily for Spidey and Jameson, it'll be a while before the Scorpion goes after them again, but he does fight some other heroes in the meantime. Even though it was Peter as Spider-man who really saved her, all Betty will probably remember from her ordeal this issue was that it was Ned who was there for her when she needed him. The story ends with a short scene depicting Aunt May experiencing dizzy spells. That can't be good. Notable differences in the reprint: The cover contains a colouring error on Scorpion's mask, making it look like the exposed area is around his mouth instead of the eyes. I've seen the same mistake made in other places, and at least a couple of cartoon versions of Scorpion interpreted it this way too (sometimes putting goggles on him). It's an easy mistake to make, probably because that's how other characters' masks work (Captain America, Daredevil, Batman to name a few). The original cover has his face all in blue, but I'll overlook that since he's under water and blowing out bubbles, so that was probably intentional. This issue of Marvel Tales was extra special, because as the cover proclaims, it’s the first time ASM 29 has ever been re-printed. A text piece shares space with Marvel Mails and Post Office of the past to explain how the original proof/photostats for this issue were lost and then goes on to detail the elaborate painstaking method by which new ones were created using scans from an old copy. ASM 28 wasn't included in the earlier Marvel Tales reprints from the 70s either, but I'm not sure if it was for the same reason. If it was I think Marvel Tales probably would have made a big deal about it a couple months ago when they reprinted it in issue 166 Some of the line work seems heavier, thicker. It’s especially noticeable on the contour around the characters, or areas where fine lines were used for shading, and sometimes on Scorpion’s costume. I guess this was one of the downsides of the process they used to restore it since it likely required some manual touch-up to the art. More modern reprints don’t seem to have this issue, so I guess it was corrected later on. The original credits read "Lettering and Loafing by Sam Rosen", but now it's been changed to "Lettering and Bordering". I'm sure the original editors knew Sam wasn't really loafing when he was supposed to be inking the panel borders, but it was nice of the reprint editors to go out of their way to recognize his actual contributions. The Scorpion’s pin-up from Amazing Spider-man Annual 2 is included here to tie in to his second appearance Danny Fingeroth, Editor. Bob DeNatale, Assistant Editor Personal anecdotes: I got this one new when it came out in 1984. I was especially excited because I really liked the Scorpion's first appearance. By this time I had seen the Scorpion’s second appearance on a rerun of the 1960s Spider-man cartoon, (but I'm not sure if I had seen the episode with his first appearance yet since I didn't always catch these reruns in order). Not realizing that the Scorpion’s first two comic appearances were combined into a single story for his first appearance on the cartoon I had assumed that his second cartoon appearance would have been an adaptation of ASM 29, so that was the story I was expecting to read when I got this comic. Not that I was disappointed, because I liked the story we got!
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Post by driver1980 on Sept 1, 2024 4:55:46 GMT -5
I like the Scorpion very much.
I know critiquing comicbook universes can be a fool’s errand at times, but as a fool, I’ll do such a thing: it always bothered me slightly that Jameson wasn’t ever held accountable for his part in the creation of Scorpion (which did involve at least one death). I know Jameson is a popular character that Marvel wouldn’t abolish, but I always liked seeing bad guys held accountable - eventually. It was completely glossed over.
I mean, Farley Stillwell only died as he realised that he had created a monster - and died in a futile attempt to “cure” Scorpion. That event would not have occurred if not for Jameson’s hatred of Spidey. Yes, Stillwell had created the process (barely tested), but I’d wager that in the real world, Jameson would be up on some sort of charge. I’m no legal expert, and I know the terminology of charges often differs between the UK, but surely Jameson is an accessory of some kind, could he have been charged with manslaughter or endangerment?
I know we are not supposed to think too deeply of these things, and it could be me being pedantic (no change there for me!). But unless a future story covered it, Jameson seems to have got away with it.
Does Parker know of Jameson’s involvement in the creation of Scorpion?
Keep up the good reviews, sorry for bogging your review down with my pedantry!
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Post by jtrw2024 on Sept 1, 2024 5:09:03 GMT -5
I like the Scorpion very much. I know critiquing comicbook universes can be a fool’s errand at times, but as a fool, I’ll do such a thing: it always bothered me slightly that Jameson wasn’t ever held accountable for his part in the creation of Scorpion (which did involve at least one death). I know Jameson is a popular character that Marvel wouldn’t abolish, but I always liked seeing bad guys held accountable - eventually. It was completely glossed over. I mean, Farley Stillwell only died as he realised that he had created a monster - and died in a futile attempt to “cure” Scorpion. That event would not have occurred if not for Jameson’s hatred of Spidey. Yes, Stillwell had created the process (barely tested), but I’d wager that in the real world, Jameson would be up on some sort of charge. I’m no legal expert, and I know the terminology of charges often differs between the UK, but surely Jameson is an accessory of some kind, could he have been charged with manslaughter or endangerment? I know we are not supposed to think too deeply of these things, and it could be me being pedantic (no change there for me!). But unless a future story covered it, Jameson seems to have got away with it. Does Parker know of Jameson’s involvement in the creation of Scorpion? Keep up the good reviews, sorry for bogging your review down with my pedantry! It all comes out in Amazing Spider-man 250. Refusing to be blackmailed by Hobgoblin, Jameson actually prints an editorial confession called "I created the Scorpion". He steps down as Editor-in-chief, but remains Publisher.
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Post by driver1980 on Sept 1, 2024 5:30:23 GMT -5
Thank you. I don’t suppose a jail sentence followed?
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Post by jtrw2024 on Sept 1, 2024 5:47:43 GMT -5
Thank you. I don’t suppose a jail sentence followed? In the Marvel Universe, the statute of limitations for unleashing a super-menace is probably only a few weeks.
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Post by jtrw2024 on Sept 1, 2024 18:24:09 GMT -5
THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 30 (reprinted in Marvel Tales 169) “The Claws of the Cat!” Credits (as they appear in the comic): Heroically Written and Edited by Stan Lee Homerically Plotted and Drawn by Steve Ditko Honorably Lettered and Bordered by Artie Simek Hastily Colored and Coded by Andy Yanchus Plot Synopsis: Spider-man is on the trail of a clever cat-burglar! (no, not that one, she comes much later) Comments: The Cat, or Cat Burglar is pretty much a one-shot type villain, but he does re-appear years later, but then, that’s it. Villains like this are good enough to give Spider-man and the police some trouble for an issue every now and again. Not everything has to be a major threat. The big threat will come next issue, though we do get some set up for that right here. Foswell gave Jameson a report on the Cat Burglar last issue, but it's not til he becomes a victim himself, that J.J.J. actually takes notice. Of course, when he offers a thousand dollar reward for the Cat Burglar's capture, Jameson isn't really thinking far enough ahead, because obviously the person most qualified to catch the Cat is the one J.J.J. hates the most. I love Jameson’s deluded fantasy showing Spider-man with an evil grin showing through his mask. This is as close to a Ditko drawn Venom as we’ll ever get! Of course this wouldn't be a Spider-man story without the usual amount of sub-plots involving the various supporting cast members: School’s still out, but we do get to catch-up a little bit with some old classmates when Peter has a brief run-in with Flash Thompson and also Liz Allan (just one more time before she disappears from these pages for a long while) Ned asks Betty to marry him. Uh oh. That can’t be good. Foswell is investigating the Cat on Jameson’s orders. Once again he’s using his Patch identity to snoop out underworld hangouts. He’s seen communicating with Jameson on the phone a few times, still in disguise, though referring to himself as Foswell, but another time he identifies himself as Patch. Presumably Jameson doesn’t know Foswell is operating as Patch, so either he thinks he’s getting updates from both Foswell and Patch (whom he might be familiar with as a stoolie), or this is another error that slipped past everyone. Even though the Cat Burglar shouldn't be much of a threat, there's a great deal of action, especially when it comes to the chase scene at the end. The police spotlights following Spidey and the Cat really add to the excitement. The explosions which knock out the supports under the water tower add an element of danger to the scene, and it's captured beautifully on the cover. It's really unusual to have a cover where the main figures are so small, but Ditko really nails this one! In the end, Spider-man doesn't get to claim Jameson's reward, but at least he manages to snap a few pics of things getting wrapped up once the police catch the Cat. Just a few short scenes with Aunt May, but whatever was bothering her last issue doesn’t seem to be getting better. Major set-up for the upcoming huge storyline! We all know where this is going! Notable differences in the reprint: Marvel Mails and Post Office of the Past still here, taking up two whole pages. Danny Fingeroth, Editor. Bob DeNatale, Assistant Editor In Post Office of the Past, some of the original readers pointed out an error in the story with the gang of thieves. The dialogue as it was originally printed seems to imply first that the thieves are following a plan devised by the Cat, and later on that one of the thieves actually is the one who came up with the plan. A note from the reprint editor indicates that they purposely left this unchanged. I really wish this was something they corrected for Marvel Tales as they’d done for several other errors in the past. The error causes confusion where there shouldn’t be and really throws things off, but I understand why they’d want to retain the purity of the original as best they could. There's really no other indication of the Cat having a gang anywhere else in the story, so I don't really think Stan Lee actually misinterpreted the role the thieves played in the story. More likely when writing the dialogue he just mixed up the name, and said "Cat" when he meant "Master Planner" (there are plenty of previous examples like this such as "Peter Palmer", "Mrs. Watkins" and even "Liz Hilton" a few issues ago). That doesn't explain why he's got one of the thieves actually refer to the plan as though it was his own unless Stan didn't yet know who the Master Planner would turn out to be. The pin-up of Jonah’s Robot is reprinted from Amazing Spider-man Annual 2. (it’s not really Jonah’s Robot since Smythe made a point about not wanting to sell it, but they had to call it something I suppose) Personal anecdotes: This is another one I’d manage to get new off the stands when Marvel Tales reprinted it, but eventually things would start to slow down for me as far as my interest in Marvel Tales. More on that with the next review
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Post by driver1980 on Sept 1, 2024 18:35:46 GMT -5
I quite like the Cat. Who doesn’t like cats? Who doesn’t like cat-themed villains?
But I have to say, judging Spidey’s stories from the 60s until now, it seems that there are foes, and maybe the Cat is one of them, that should be small potatoes to him give him problems.
This seemed to be a problem in the live-action Spidey series (which I quite enjoy). He’d have spider-strength which would be put to good use, but then he’d sometimes struggle against common hoodlums.
Pedantry aside, within the context of Spidey’s fictional universe, I don’t believe he should have a problem with the likes of the Cat, The Enforcers or Kingpin. Even as a kid, it did sometimes seem weird when Spidey would snap chains, lift up something akin to a safe and go toe-to-toe with the likes of Scorpion, yet would struggle against Kingpin who, despite his size, is still a normal guy.
I can still enjoy tales like the one you’ve reviewed, but, and I’m not sure it goes on now, there are a small number of villains who I don’t think Spidey should have a problem handling, all of whom I have named in my post.
But, it doesn’t detract from the enjoyment I have. This is comic fiction. I seem to remember Superman struggling against a gorilla in one of the Fleischer cartoons, and an episode of Shazam saw Captain Marvel seem to struggle for a moment or two against a lion. I guess they can’t keep coming up with gimmicks and super-powered villains, so from time to time, we have to simply suspend disbelief and accept that the likes of the Cat, Enforcers and Kingpin (all of whom I like) will subdue Spidey for a while.
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Post by tarkintino on Sept 1, 2024 18:54:03 GMT -5
THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 30 (reprinted in Marvel Tales 169) The reprint really did a major disservice to TASM's cover, lacking the mood and washing away the Golden Age crime comic book roots of the original: Marvel Tales #23 (November, 1969) featured the first reprint of TASM #30 with a very different cover than the original: The upper row was arguably Ditko's best panel work on TASM.
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 1, 2024 19:56:34 GMT -5
I quite like the Cat. Who doesn’t like cats? Who doesn’t like cat-themed villains? But I have to say, judging Spidey’s stories from the 60s until now, it seems that there are foes, and maybe the Cat is one of them, that should be small potatoes to him give him problems. This seemed to be a problem in the live-action Spidey series (which I quite enjoy). He’d have spider-strength which would be put to good use, but then he’d sometimes struggle against common hoodlums. Pedantry aside, within the context of Spidey’s fictional universe, I don’t believe he should have a problem with the likes of the Cat, The Enforcers or Kingpin. Even as a kid, it did sometimes seem weird when Spidey would snap chains, lift up something akin to a safe and go toe-to-toe with the likes of Scorpion, yet would struggle against Kingpin who, despite his size, is still a normal guy. I can still enjoy tales like the one you’ve reviewed, but, and I’m not sure it goes on now, there are a small number of villains who I don’t think Spidey should have a problem handling, all of whom I have named in my post. But, it doesn’t detract from the enjoyment I have. This is comic fiction. I seem to remember Superman struggling against a gorilla in one of the Fleischer cartoons, and an episode of Shazam saw Captain Marvel seem to struggle for a moment or two against a lion. I guess they can’t keep coming up with gimmicks and super-powered villains, so from time to time, we have to simply suspend disbelief and accept that the likes of the Cat, Enforcers and Kingpin (all of whom I like) will subdue Spidey for a while. That's part of what I didn't like about License to Kill, in the James Bond franchise. A drug lord should take about 20 minutes of Bond's time to kill, even without official sanctioning. Unless he has a henchman with a steel bowler hat or teeth. Then, 45 minutes.
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Post by Calidore on Sept 1, 2024 20:30:10 GMT -5
That's part of what I didn't like about License to Kill, in the James Bond franchise. A drug lord should take about 20 minutes of Bond's time to kill, even without official sanctioning. Unless he has a henchman with a steel bowler hat or teeth. Then, 45 minutes. I saw this as him wanting to destroy Sanchez' entire operation around him first, then take out Sanchez when he had nothing left. I think the writers mentioned Yojimbo as one influence.
License to Kill is one of my favorite Bonds.
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 1, 2024 21:47:41 GMT -5
That's part of what I didn't like about License to Kill, in the James Bond franchise. A drug lord should take about 20 minutes of Bond's time to kill, even without official sanctioning. Unless he has a henchman with a steel bowler hat or teeth. Then, 45 minutes. I saw this as him wanting to destroy Sanchez' entire operation around him first, then take out Sanchez when he had nothing left. I think the writers mentioned Yojimbo as one influence.
License to Kill is one of my favorite Bonds.
Yeah, Yojimbo is obvious; but, I didn't care for the execution of it, nor Robert Davi as the villain. Everitt McGill didn't add much either; but is mercifully killed off early. In fact, it kind of suffers from too many tv actors who were reliable, if not spectacular performers, like Don Stroud, Cary Hiroyuki Tagawa, Anthony Zerbe, Priscilla Barnes, Pedro Armendariaz Jr (not up to the old man's standards). Benicio del Toro was a revelation, though.
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