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Post by EdoBosnar on Jan 8, 2024 8:33:53 GMT -5
Yes, indeed, a great wrap-up and Kurt is always a wonderful podcast guest. A few of my own wrap-up thoughts: - I agree with George ( Icctrombone) about the Teen Titans; I understand that they sort of fit according to this year's rules, but there's just no way I consider them a 'legitimate' spin-off (just like I can't get it out of my head that the New Mutants did *not* count as a spin-off when to me that's pretty much the definition of a spin-off series) - on a similar note, now that it's all said and done and nothing can be changed or amended, I have to say that I don't think Warlock should have counted as a spin-off. My reasoning (and it's why he didn't appear on my list even though I love Starlin's original work with the character and am pretty fond of the Thomas, Kane et al. material that preceded it): the character was so thoroughly revamped and repurposed in that first issue of Marvel Premiere that he in effect became something entirely new. But like I said, just my personal stance, I'm not casting aspersions on anyone who did pick him, or rather - Him. - on EC, I'm personally quite partial to the SF comics myself. - on the Howard the Duck and the possibility that something like that never would have passed under Shooter as EiC, maybe; on the one hand, if it was specifically a Gerber project, that's probably correct because their personalities would have clashed too much. However, a rather similar character, Rocket Raccoon, got his own mini-series under Shooter's watch. And finally, I don't think it's fair that Jeff and George already know what next year's this year's topic is going to be (I think Kurt should make a last-minute change this coming November and surprise everyone ).
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Post by commond on Jan 8, 2024 8:41:50 GMT -5
That was fun. We need DubipR to clear up the confusion around his name. To defend a few of my own picks: Whoa Nellie! was the story of two minor characters from Locas, Gina Bravo and Maggie's cousin, Xochitl. Maggie does appear briefly, but it's not a Maggie story. The central protagonist is Gina. Gotham Central features an ensemble cast of supporting characters from the Batman comics. It seems like the epitome of a spinoff series to me. FF was first introduced in Fantastic Four #579 (July 2010) during the Hickman run and spun off into its own series by Hickman and Steve Epting. The version I voted for was the relaunched Matt Fraction/Mike Allred series that was published at the same time as Fraction and Bagley's Fantastic Four series. I don't really see why super villains can't be considered for spinoff books. I thought about manga spinoffs, but couldn't think of any off the top of my head and most of the info online was for recent works after 2013. Since George called people out, I wanna know how some of these backdoor pilots counted as spinoff books. What did Hitman spin out of? Thin air, that's what! You have solid picks this year, but I guess I didn't read in your description the first appearance of the lead characters in Whoa, Nellie. To my knowledge, the FF book highlighted characters already members of the Fantastic Four. For this reason, I also don't consider WC Avengers to be a spin off book. There were no original people added. Force Works is different. They introduce someone called Century to the mix. Hitman appeared in Demon Annual #2 and was also in storylines in the Demon book later on. I think he recurred twice before getting his own title. FF is a hard book to describe if you've never read it. Basically, the actual Fantastic Four go on a trip across space and time that's meant to last a year of their time but only 4 minutes of our time, and while they're gone Reed asks Scott Lang to form a substitute Fantastic Four to take care of the Future Foundation, a group of superpowered children including Artie and Leech and a bunch of other characters. The substitute group is made up of Ant-Man, She-Hulk, Medusa and a new character who takes on the mantle of She-Thing. There's a lot more to it than that, but they basically sub for the FF until the original team find their way back to the right dimension. I don't consider it the Fantastic Four because the Fantastic Four were in their own series at the same time. West Coast Avengers is 1000% a spinoff series. It wasn't an accidental spinoff in the vein that Kurt was looking for, but creating a second book for a popular or established title is the very definition of a spinoff to me. That's why I thought She-Hulk, New Mutants, X-Factor and Excailbur were clear spinoff books. The reason I'm iffy on Hitman is because Bloodlines was designed to introduce new characters who would then debut to their own ongoing series. I felt the same way about some other choices too like Vigilante who doesn't strike me as a true spinoff of New Teen Titans. Deathstroke, absolutely, but not Vigilante.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 8, 2024 8:57:00 GMT -5
Yes, indeed, a great wrap-up and Kurt is always a wonderful podcast guest. A few of my own wrap-up thoughts: - I agree with George ( Icctrombone) about the Teen Titans; I understand that they sort of fit according to this year's rules, but there's just no way I consider them a 'legitimate' spin-off If Robin gets his own series, it's a spin-off. If Kid Flash gets his own series, it's a spin-off. If Aqualad gets his own series, it's a spin-off. If Wonder Girl gets her own series, it's a spin-off. So why not a series featuring all four of them? Thus the fun of the assignment. Sure, and I'd argue West Coast Avengers should count as a spin-off too, but not by the specific definition Kurt was looking for, which limited us in some ways and opened up new possibilities in others. I like the challenge, myself. So anytime a character goes through a major overhaul, they should be counted as something new? It would be interesting to try to argue first appearances using that logic: when did the modern Superman or Donald Duck first appear? The assignment is "Geeking Out: Our Favorite Issues of Brother Power the Geek". Sorry, Cei-U!. I'm terrible at keeping secrets.
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Post by Rags on Jan 8, 2024 10:13:16 GMT -5
One week ban for whoever told Kurt my #1 pick would be Punisher.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Jan 8, 2024 11:08:12 GMT -5
So anytime a character goes through a major overhaul, they should be counted as something new? It would be interesting to try to argue first appearances using that logic: when did the modern Superman or Donald Duck first appear? Nope. I'm only talking about Warlock, because it's a specific case. Like I said, Thomas & co. so totally repurposed him, crucially giving hHim a new name, that to my mind he became a new character. Through all of their iterations and modifications, Superman and Donald Duck (for example) could still be recognized - and their names didn't change (and I might be wrong, but I'm not sure many people immediately thought to themselves, "Oh, that's Him!" when they saw the cover of Marvel Premiere #1).
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Post by EdoBosnar on Jan 8, 2024 11:12:42 GMT -5
Hmm, I think "Dub I.P.R." would be more in that spirit of that sketch.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 8, 2024 11:18:32 GMT -5
So anytime a character goes through a major overhaul, they should be counted as something new? It would be interesting to try to argue first appearances using that logic: when did the modern Superman or Donald Duck first appear? Nope. I'm only talking about Warlock, because it's a specific case. Like I said, Thomas & co. so totally repurposed him, crucially giving hHim a new name, that to my mind he became a new character. Through all of their iterations and modifications, Superman and Donald Duck (for example) could still be recognized - and their names didn't change (and I might be wrong, but I'm not sure many people immediately thought to themselves, "Oh, that's Him!" when they saw the cover of Marvel Premiere #1). Certainly not the only time that's been done in comicdom (nor even at Marvel), but I understand your point better now. Thanks for clarifying.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jan 8, 2024 12:22:43 GMT -5
Listened to this last night in bed. Really fun episode. Well done, guys.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 8, 2024 13:47:09 GMT -5
Great show, you three! It was fun! A few remarks, because why not : "Whoa there Skippy" just has to stay. Running gags are always fun to a return audience. No spin-off from Tintin, you're right. The closest I've seen was a dictionary of Captain Haddock's swear words. Hergé (and then his estate) were and are extremely sensitive about brand dilution. (Asterix had a spin-off about Obelix's little dog, and Lucky Luke had a RanTanPlan spin-off series. Spirou, of course, gave us the Marsupilami and Little Spirou. But Tintin? Nope, that's a classic comic that stands on its own). *Note added just for Jeff* : the best Marsupilami book is actually part of the Spirou main series. It's a nature documentary on the strange animal, and the first time we see what its cubs look like! I was glad to see all the love for Love & Rockets but didn't nominate any title, because to me both the Locas and the Palomar universes are just one big story each. I don't view Penny Century as a spin-off character, even if her getting her own book made her legit for the contest. The same reasoning kept me from using any member of the Archie gang. Sorry about Sonja, George... I did the podcast because I'm a Scott Harris fan, not a Sonja fan! :-D Actually, I liked Sonja as an occasional supporting character in Conan, especially in CtB #23 and 24. As a solo protagonist, I always thought she suffered tremendously from the stupid vow and magical skills nonsense.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jan 8, 2024 13:56:48 GMT -5
It was Al Feldstein that was the other EC editor not Will Elder. Deathstroke is a full on villain. Rehabilitating him into an anti-hero is a terrible thing. When all’s said and done, George had the worst pick of the season. So good for George. Ambush Bug transcended his roots in the Superman ghetto to become a great comedy character. Nice wrap-up fellers. Allow me to retort- Ambush bug is a full on Superman cast member and I'm sure you have these comics slabbed in 9.8 in your home. It's okay, You're welcome in Metropolis like the rest of us. Also, Deathstroke is a great character and if Dr. Doom can be mentioned several times, Wade is certainly eligible. I actually have none of those comics. The first time I read Ambush Bug was when I got the first mini out of the quarter box. Deathstroke absolutely qualifies. My position is that he's a child molestor and that his re-habilitation in to an anti-hero is one of the more heinous character evolutions in the Big Two.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 8, 2024 13:59:53 GMT -5
Deathstroke is scum. I never thought otherwise.
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Post by Prince Hal on Jan 8, 2024 14:10:36 GMT -5
Well, others' mileage may vary, but I thought this episode was too short.
Well done, as usual, and as has come to be expected.
You've set the bar high.
Which is why the barstool was invented.
Thank you, gentlemen.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Jan 8, 2024 15:01:11 GMT -5
Well, others' mileage may vary, but I thought this episode was too short. (...) QFT
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 8, 2024 15:05:35 GMT -5
The closest I've seen was a dictionary of Captain Haddock's swear words. I really really need to find this. This too!
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 8, 2024 15:09:32 GMT -5
Well, others' mileage may vary, but I thought this episode was too short. On the one hand, yeah, I felt so too. We really had no concept of how long it was going to take to discuss all of this. I'd expected to spend ten minutes alone on Classic Comics Christmas memories, so when Kurt didn't have any, I was more than a little thrown. My fault for not explicitly putting it in the episode outline. On the other hand, more people listened to it right away instead of waiting until they could find the time. A 50 minute episode has the illusion of being a LOT shorter than an episode that's an hour and nine minutes. I don't think we've ever had this many people listen and respond this quickly before, and I love it. Fortunately, our next episode is a long one. I think it's an hour and nineteen minutes. So you've got that to look forward to in two weeks. Thanks for the kind praise!
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