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Post by Calidore on Sept 26, 2023 17:29:53 GMT -5
I think when you have someone who spent most of his life learning from Batman handling strategy and matchups, it's pretty much game over.
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Post by commond on Sept 26, 2023 17:44:40 GMT -5
Which members get the hots for each other? Who will constantly brood about not being good enough? Which girl will be taken over by an evil force and strut S&M gear?
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Post by driver1980 on Sept 26, 2023 17:53:02 GMT -5
Teen Titans. More experience and possibly a strategy and continuity that comes naturally as opposed to the New Mutants’ inexperience.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2023 17:55:07 GMT -5
Which girl will be taken over by an evil force and strut S&M gear? Actually it's Sam, but in fairness, that "force" is Lila Cheney who he's hanging around with again:
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Post by commond on Sept 26, 2023 18:17:11 GMT -5
Well played.
Does Wally try to hit on Illyana? Does Rahne have a crush on Dick?
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Post by tarkintino on Sept 26, 2023 21:10:01 GMT -5
Hypothetical match-up between the teams in their classic 80's incarnations (they fight for whatever reason), who would take it do you think? You've got brains and brawn on both teams, and power levels overall seem like a decent match-up. In picking the lineup on each side, I'm trying to keep a bit of balance. I'm taking Karma out of the equation since she was off the team early on and for a good stretch, though she might have been interesting against Jericho (who I did not include either)! So in the Titans corner, I present the following: Robin Starfire Cyborg Wonder Girl Changeling Raven Kid Flash Terra And in the New Mutants corner: Cannonball Magma Mirage Wolfsbane Magik Sunspot Cypher Warlock This fight would begin with Dick Grayson strategizing.
This fight would end with the New Mutants scattered, beaten, some missing, or demoralized.
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 26, 2023 21:18:59 GMT -5
Well played. Does Wally try to hit on Illyana? Does Rahne have a crush on Dick?Must....... resist........ temptation to....make....a...joke.........
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 26, 2023 21:21:47 GMT -5
For the initial question, this is how I see it going.......
For clarity's sake, the Titans are the Road Warriors and the New Mutants are the Mulkey Brothers.
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Post by spoon on Sept 26, 2023 22:25:14 GMT -5
I think the Mutants also lack the raw power to deal with the Titans. The only real powerhouses are Warlock, who is very much not agressive and looks to others to guide him when it comes to conflict, Magma, whose power is as much a threat to her own time as her opponents if she really lets loose, and Magik, whose magical powers seem very limited when she is on Earth and not in her home dimension. Mirage and Illyana are also the only one who seem to have any fighting experience before joining their teams while the Titans have several well-trained fighters at this point. This speaks to the different viewpoints/purposes of the respective series. New Mutants is more of a coming-of-age story. The New Mutants make mistakes and grow and make mistakes. New Teen Titans is writing more like straightforward super-hero fighting. Some members of the New Mutants are mentioned as being 13, 14, 15, or 16 in the course of their original series. I feel like the only Titans who would fall in that age range during the NTT era are Terra and Changeling. The Mutants are written like teenagers. The Titans are written like characters in a Hollywood teen drama played by twentysomethings. There was a New Teen Titans/X-Men crossover, because those teams are closer to being on equal footing. Based on the above, I think the Titans would win most possible scenarios. Having said that, I'll do a bit of devil's advocate on behalf of the Mutants. At first, I wished Karma was in the mix rather than Cypher. But the benefit of that would require Karma being written to her full potential, because so often during the series, Claremont found excuse why others could resist Karma's powers. At first, I pictured Cypher just being enveloped by Warlock for his own protection and giving Warlock advice. But I thought of a couple ways Cypher could affect the fight more directly. Cypher could speak to Starfire in her own language. This could fascinate/distract her so that she's talking to him rather than fighting for a bit. Also, Cypher is a hack, so maybe he could mess with Cyborg somehow. When the fight occurs during the teams' career could affect things. If it was during the period when Kid Flash's powers were slowly killing him, he might be less inclined to use them. Late in the New Mutants run, Mirage gained the power to give an illusion solid physical form. A major variable is who Mirage uses her power. Someone mentioned that it could be really effective used upon Terra. But also, if Mirage caused Raven to see an image of Trigon, maybe Raven flips out and we get some friendly fire.
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Post by Dizzy D on Sept 27, 2023 1:23:36 GMT -5
I think the Mutants also lack the raw power to deal with the Titans. The only real powerhouses are Warlock, who is very much not agressive and looks to others to guide him when it comes to conflict, Magma, whose power is as much a threat to her own time as her opponents if she really lets loose, and Magik, whose magical powers seem very limited when she is on Earth and not in her home dimension. Mirage and Illyana are also the only one who seem to have any fighting experience before joining their teams while the Titans have several well-trained fighters at this point. This speaks to the different viewpoints/purposes of the respective series. New Mutants is more of a coming-of-age story. The New Mutants make mistakes and grow and make mistakes. New Teen Titans is writing more like straightforward super-hero fighting. Some members of the New Mutants are mentioned as being 13, 14, 15, or 16 in the course of their original series. I feel like the only Titans who would fall in that age range during the NTT era are Terra and Changeling. The Mutants are written like teenagers. The Titans are written like characters in a Hollywood teen drama played by twentysomethings. There was a New Teen Titans/X-Men crossover, because those teams are closer to being on equal footing. Based on the above, I think the Titans would win most possible scenarios. Having said that, I'll do a bit of devil's advocate on behalf of the Mutants. At first, I wished Karma was in the mix rather than Cypher. But the benefit of that would require Karma being written to her full potential, because so often during the series, Claremont found excuse why others could resist Karma's powers. At first, I pictured Cypher just being enveloped by Warlock for his own protection and giving Warlock advice. But I thought of a couple ways Cypher could affect the fight more directly. Cypher could speak to Starfire in her own language. This could fascinate/distract her so that she's talking to him rather than fighting for a bit. Also, Cypher is a hack, so maybe he could mess with Cyborg somehow. When the fight occurs during the teams' career could affect things. If it was during the period when Kid Flash's powers were slowly killing him, he might be less inclined to use them. Late in the New Mutants run, Mirage gained the power to give an illusion solid physical form. A major variable is who Mirage uses her power. Someone mentioned that it could be really effective used upon Terra. But also, if Mirage caused Raven to see an image of Trigon, maybe Raven flips out and we get some friendly fire.
The purpose behind both series is indeed a big factor: The Titans are trained to be the superheroes like the Justice League; their mentors (as far as they have them) intending them to follow in their foot steps), while the New Mutants' specifically were kept as much out of combat situations as their mentors could. Concerned by one of the many appearant deaths of the X-Men, Xavier trained them to defend themselves, but was not planning on making them the new X-Men, just kids who could survive in the world.
So to keep with the sports equivalents that many here seem to be fond of: We have a junior team of athletes that are all being trained to go professional once they reach full adulthood, with both the drive and coaching to do so. And we have a junior team of athletes that were put together to have something to do in their life to get out of problem and just want to hang out really. Sure, they want to win a game, but most of them have no intention on making his their whole career.
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Post by rberman on Sept 27, 2023 7:00:07 GMT -5
The purpose behind both series is indeed a big factor: The Titans are trained to be the superheroes like the Justice League; their mentors (as far as they have them) intending them to follow in their foot steps), while the New Mutants' specifically were kept as much out of combat situations as their mentors could. Concerned by one of the many appearant deaths of the X-Men, Xavier trained them to defend themselves, but was not planning on making them the new X-Men, just kids who could survive in the world. So to keep with the sports equivalents that many here seem to be fond of: We have a junior team of athletes that are all being trained to go professional once they reach full adulthood, with both the drive and coaching to do so. And we have a junior team of athletes that were put together to have something to do in their life to get out of problem and just want to hang out really. Sure, they want to win a game, but most of them have no intention on making his their whole career.
One thing the NM had that the NTT didn't: an actual coach. Robin is more of a team captain. Training montages were a routine part of NM stories, as a way of showing new readers what the names and powers of the characters were, per Jim Shooter's mandate for this to happen in every issue. The two teams were not really supposed to be the same age in the first place. Marv Wolfman wrote the Titans as young adults, comparable in age to the X-Men with whom they once crossed over as equals. They live independently as adults with their own apartments, except for Gar, who is written as an actual teen. Wolfman wanted to drop "Teen" from their name altogether, but that name was already claimed, so he was stuck calling them "New" Teen Titans to distinguish them from the 1960s iteration.
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Post by james on Sept 27, 2023 10:06:04 GMT -5
What if the teams were mixed?
Robin Mirage Raven Warlock Kid Flash Sunspot Changeling Cannonball
Cypher Terra Magick Cyborg Wondergirl Wolfsbane Starfire Magma
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Post by driver1980 on Sept 27, 2023 10:18:51 GMT -5
For the initial question, this is how I see it going....... For clarity's sake, the Titans are the Road Warriors and the New Mutants are the Mulkey Brothers. Beat me to it, although I can’t promise I had that match in mind.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2023 10:26:55 GMT -5
What if the teams were mixed? Robin Mirage Raven Warlock Kid Flash Sunspot Changeling Cannonball Cypher Terra Magick Cyborg Wondergirl Wolfsbane Starfire Magma I like it, that's a fun variation on the theme!
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Post by Calidore on Sept 27, 2023 10:35:18 GMT -5
What if the teams were mixed? Robin Mirage Raven Warlock Kid Flash Sunspot Changeling Cannonball Cypher Terra Magick Cyborg Wondergirl Wolfsbane Starfire Magma
Say, a draft? I like that idea.
I'm also thinking that if the Titans are too polished to be a fair fight with a group of students like the NM, how about a, um, less polished team like Doom Patrol, which also has a wide assortment of personalities and powers plus a leader/wrangler who has to somehow keep them functioning together?
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