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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 16, 2023 18:31:04 GMT -5
Tom Tanner’s tirade runs for more than a full column even after being edited for length. He rips the new WW up one side and down the other: “a normal human woman with a retarded-looking sidekick: stringy-haired, saccharine, dressing in clothes that all look alike and are usually white… That THEM story was sick beyond belief…” And people are complaining about Reddit... Yeah, but you actually had to take the time to sit down and write a letter in longhand or type it, seal it an envelope, address it, put postage on it and mail it That is to much work for today's generation. That's why such tirades were somewhat rare, as it took a lot of effort to express that much anger. If they printed it, it was usually to basically hammer them into their place. There was a letter hack at Comico that got into it a few times with Diana Schutz and possibly cat yronwode, at Eclipse, with some Conservative-leaning politics, attacking a story and they just used it to basically mock the guy, as they savaged him with counter-attacks (generalizing, because they make fair points; but, they obviously chose his letter to look superior in the rebuttal).
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 16, 2023 18:57:54 GMT -5
In regards to the Chinese, etc...I think Sekowsky is basically trying to do something in the spirit of classic adventure strips, like Terry and the Pirates, rather than making a direct political statement, though it could be a combination of both. Terry and Pat Dugan ended up in the middle of battles with warlords, constantly and substituting Chinese Communist (or Asian Communist) troops for bandits and warlords doesn't really change the dynamic of the story, much. It's still Yellow Peril stuff, still bullies picking on the weaker population and a hero standing up for them.
Funny enough, in China, there was a comic strip about a women's group in the People's Liberation Army, The Red Detachment of Women (aka The Red Women's Detachment) about a group of women who fought for the Communists ide, during the civil war, but were driven out by the Nationalists, in Hunan. It is based on historical fact, which was also adapted into a novel, stage play, film and Beijing Opera of some note. The survivor's f the group were inspected by Mao, after the Communist victory and were lauded as heroes of the Revolution. The comics strip was reprinted in other countries and there was a collection of Chinese comics, chosen by a group of editors (including Umberto Eco) which included an excerpt from it. I recall seeing an article about it in Maurice Horn's The World Encyclopedia of Comics.
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Post by rberman on Sept 17, 2023 7:55:19 GMT -5
In regards to the Chinese, etc...I think Sekowsky is basically trying to do something in the spirit of classic adventure strips, like Terry and the Pirates, rather than making a direct political statement, though it could be a combination of both. Terry and Pat Dugan ended up in the middle of battles with warlords, constantly and substituting Chinese Communist (or Asian Communist) troops for bandits and warlords doesn't really change the dynamic of the story, much. It's still Yellow Peril stuff, still bullies picking on the weaker population and a hero standing up for them. Terry was both adventure and political as well, not uncommon in WW2. The original premise was "Terry and friends, vs pirates." But after Pearl Harbor, Terry grew up and joined the military, and the premise became "Terry and Pirates, vs Japan." Terry even defended Burma (the woman, not the nation) from a military journalist researching her criminal past. I acquired this Sunday strip of Terry last year. It's adventure themed but within a military context; Willow Belinda has been mistaken for a WAC commander and kidnapped for interrogation. Terry and his buddy Charlie Charlie are trying to track her down in India.
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Post by rberman on Sept 17, 2023 13:29:01 GMT -5
Wonder Woman #190 “Detour” (October 1970)Theme: 1970, a Space Opera Art & Story: Mike Sekowsky Inking: Dick Giordano Dramatis PersonaeDiana Prince, depressed boutique owner I Ching, blind man, martial arts mentor Leda, Amazon transporter chief Queen of Chandalor, serial assault victim Ranagor, barbarian from North Ambria The Story: Returning to America, Diana has the blues. I Ching recommends she visit Paradise Island. The Amazon Leda arrives immediately to carry Diana across dimensions, but somehow they get waylaid and taken to a weird twilight world. First they are attacked by shades (see cover), then by humans in a flying galleon. Leda departs to get help from Paradise Island. Diana puts up a good fight but ultimately is brought in chains before the Queen of Chandalor. Threatened with an arena experience, Diana goes on the attack, catching the Queen by surprise in her own throne room. But a club to the noggin brings Diana’s escape to a quick close. Diana awakens chained in the dungeon in the company of Ranagor, another captured warrior. Diana first uses acid concealed in her shirt buttons to dissolve her chains, then pulls the “prisoner pretends to be very ill” trick to lure the jailer close enough to overcome him. All to no avail; their escape path leads them right to the arena after all, where they face a giant Gnarth. The “wedge a sword in the monster’s open maw” trick works as usual, and the Gnarth goes down. Working instinctively as one, Ranagor and Diana charge the royal box, and for the second time in hours, the Queen of Chandalor finds herself on the receiving end of Diana’s fists. Abandoning the queen, Diana and Ranagor race to the castle’s parapet. The latter is afraid to jump into the moat, so Diana gives him a push. At the bottom, Ranagor’s friends from North Ambria are beginning a siege of Castle Skull… My Two Cents: We’re in John Carter territory now, with a mix of swords and airships and gladiatorial bouts against giant monsters. The action comes fast and furious, with one narrow escape after another in good swashbuckling pulp fashion. There’s nothing deep about this story at all, but it’s a nice change from last issue’s plodding pace. Page one begins in media res once again as Diana and Leda face the shadow-men as promised on the cover. Page two has a very unconventional layout, likewise page three. Its margins are a montage showing the same fight scene continuing, while the center of the page contains a rapid-fire flashback montage explaining how Diana came to leave her boutique. It’s quite a striking set of images. However, after this cool beginning, the shadow men are never explained or seen again. I suppose we should be grateful Sekowsky made them the cover scene instead of Diana in chains. Fashion Plate: Once again Wonder Woman is clad entirely in white. White pants, white boots to the knee, white blouse, white vest, white cloak with collar. I guess Sekowsky got tired of thumbing through the latest fashion magazines for something else. Sexual Politics: Diana mocks Ranagor's fear of heights. Her previous men like Patrick McGuire and Tony Petrucci are nowhere in sight, and even I Ching has no interest in the (failed) trip to Paradise Island, opting to stay in Manhattan. One challenge of this series is that Diana is not developing an ongoing supporting cast, just a series of brief allies. Does She Cry? Sekowsky’s Wonder Woman is too steely to cry; maybe I should drop this section. Everybody was Kung Fu Fighting: For the first time in several issues, the narrator credits I Ching with Diana’s fighting prowess. Body Count: Diana is said to exact a “terrible toll” on the patrol that captures her in the outlands. Likewise another patrol captain “lost three of my men” subduing Ranagor. Bond Girl: Shadowy arms grope Leda on the cover and on the first few pages of the interior. Diana spends several pages in chains, though she sometimes finds them a useful weapon. Diana seems to view her chains as a mere inconvenience, smirking as she waits for her opportunity to strike the Queen of Chandalor. Gloria Steinem should have nothing to complain about in this portrayal of Diana. Lettercol: Joe Arul hails the new realism of Diana’s stories but also suggests that she team up with Zatanna. Well, which is it? Realism or magic? Jane Sasnowitz is disappointed that she didn’t get to see Dr. Cyber’s hideously scarred face. Myke Harre predicts that Wonder Woman will get canceled like “Blackhawk, Rip Hunter, and Deadman.”
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Post by chaykinstevens on Sept 17, 2023 13:54:11 GMT -5
This issue happens to be the one in which government-mandated circulation figures were published. They reveal that on average, paid circulation was 171,197 for each issue, including a mere 197 mail subscriptions. But “office use, left over, spoiled after printing” accounts for another 151,457 copies of each issue. I assume these are the remaindered copies, returned unsold with their covers removed? That would mean that the sell-through rate was slightly higher than 50%. The market sure has changed a lot in the last fifty years; a title selling 171,000 copies an issue would be a runaway success today. However, this is about a 22% decrease in sales compared to the 1967 statement of circulation from issue #168. According to Comichron, average sales had already declined to 175k or less before O'Neil and Sekowsky took over, which may have been what prompted the new direction. 1966 220k, date of filing 10/01/66, published in #168 1967 175k, date of filing 10/01/67, published in #175 1968 166k, date of filing 10/01/68, published in #181 1969 171k, date of filing 10/01/69, published in #187 link
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 17, 2023 19:41:40 GMT -5
Diana must keep a large supply of Biz on hand, for her action wear.....
ps. The panel with the knife dialogue has me imagining Diana sounding like Sean Connery, in the Untouchables....
"Ain't that just like a queen, to bring a knife to a chain fight!"
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Post by rberman on Sept 18, 2023 7:37:17 GMT -5
Wonder Woman #191 “Detour 2” (December 1970) Theme: Clip show Art & Story: Mike Sekowsky Inking: Dick Giordano Dramatis PersonaeDiana Prince, storyteller Ranagor, Barbarian from North Ambria The Story: Diana hangs out with Ranagor and his troops, then tells the story of Wonder Woman #179, in which she surrendered her powers. My Two Cents: Yep, it’s a reprint issue. The first six pages of #179 (the discrediting of Steve Trevor) have been replaced by four new pages of frame story at the front and two at the back. Sekowsky had assumed responsibility for writing, drawing, and editing Supergirl stories in Adventure Comics, without surrendering his Wonder Woman gig, so he probably felt stretched thin. The first page of issue #192 purports that issue #179 was reprinted because they received so many letters from confused readers who missed that pivotal story the first time around. The reprint came with minor changes. Dr. Cyber was originally referred to as male, then revealed to be female. Was that just for surprise, or had Sekowsky not decided at first? Either way, he amends the gender references to female for this reprint. The coloring has been redone as well. Fashion Plate: In the frame story, Diana still wears the all-white suit from last issue. Note the cool fringed boots she wears on the cover; we'll be seeing them again. Sexual Politics: “Marriage a la Mode” is reprinted, and there’s also a 2.5 page biography of Marie Elizabeth Zakrzewska, a “wonder woman of history” who became a physician despite prejudice. Body Count: Despite its brevity, the frame story does squeeze in a Chandalorian sneak attack from airships which leaves casualties among the North Umbrians.
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Post by rberman on Sept 19, 2023 7:10:30 GMT -5
Wonder Woman #192 “Assault on Castle Skull” (February 1971)
Theme: Princess Valiant Art & Story: Mike Sekowsky Inking: Dick Giordano Dramatis PersonaeDiana Prince, Amazonian Yankee in King Arthur's Court Ranagor, Barbarian from North Ambria Queen of ChandalorThang, Champion of the Queen The Story: The North Ambrians attack the Queen of Chandalor’s castle all day but fail to make any headway. Diana teaches her side to make massive stores of gunpowder, wooden cannons, and stone cannonballs overnight. No Prime Directive nonsense here! The next day goes better against both the castle walls and the Queen’s attacking airships. Despite this overwhelming technological upgrade, the battle goes on, “day after day,” without tangible success. Finally, Diana and Ranagor jointly challenge the Queen of Chandalor (and her chosen champion, Thang) to a trial-by-combat. But when Thang falls, the Queen runs away rather than honor the terms of the trial. Finally, Diana drives a cart full of explosives into the castle wall, opening a breach that allows the North Ambrians to invade the castle and win the day. The Queen is banished on foot to face vengeance from the peasants she oppressed. Hippolyta belatedly arrives with an army of Amazons to discover she’s no longer needed. My Two Cents: The spirit of Hal Foster looms large over this tale of clashing armies, told more through narrator captions than dialogue balloons. This kind of story doesn’t have much character development; readers will enjoy it to whatever extent they like looking at self-explanatory images of warfare. In #190, the Queen seemed like one of those nobles who would never lift a finger to fight for herself, so I was surprised when she leaps into armor to answer the challenge of a woman who kicked her butt so thoroughly – twice -- last time. She even acts like Diana is an idiot for challenging such a seasoned fighter as herself, though we don’t see anything in this issue to back that up. You may recall that Diana only came on this “Detour” because she thought a visit to Paradise Island might cure her depression. But even when the Amazons arrive, Diana spends “a few days” more hanging out with her new army and then only spends a week on Paradise Island – summarized in a single small panel – before heading back to Manhattan. It seems that weeks of grueling, cruel warfare lifted her spirits more than Paradise did. Again we see Sekowsky offering an essentially positive take on war (in particular, stepping into someone else’s war) at a time in American life where that stance courted controversy. Fashion Plate: Diana wears the same white tunic, sometimes with white pants, throughout the whole issue. Must get ripe! The cover shows it a little differently, including a breastplate with a bizarre third breast overlying her navel. Sexual Politics: Again Diana takes charge. One North Ambrian lives to regret questioning the qualifications of Amazon warrior women. Bond Girl/Covers That Lie: The cover depicts Ranagor being crucified. Nothing remotely like that happens on the interior, nor is Diana ever splay-legged on the ground at the mercy of the Queen. Body Count: Massive casualties on both sides throughout the war. Lettercol: Soo Kim Lee complains that the language depicted on signs in Hong Kong was not real Chinese. Sekowsky responds that he doesn’t want to copy inappropriate Chinese out of a magazine, implying that he doesn’t have any actual Chinese people to consult. Sekowsky also reports that although Ares is the father of Hippolyta, Aphrodite is indeed her mother. Hey wait, that means… moving on, John Saint wants more fantasy stories and less espionage. “Brenda” is told that subscriptions are no longer being offered. Uh-oh! Sekowsky invites readers to complain directly to Carmine Infantino (calling him out by name, and giving his work address) if they are upset that Metal Men was canceled. Elizabeth Marasco loves the new WW. “Keep it up.” Sekowsky responds, “I just stuck this one in for the sake of my ego.” He’s cultivating quite a sassy image on the letters page!
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Post by MDG on Sept 19, 2023 9:44:42 GMT -5
I'm shocked that top panel hasn't made it into the Out-of-context panel Hall of Fame.
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 19, 2023 13:32:35 GMT -5
Um, wooden cannon would be of negligible use, after they have been fired. You pretty much only get one shot, because the "barrel" will be destroyed. There's a reason why firearms and artillery didn't develop until metallurgy had progressed.
Sekowsky started working in comics in 1941, so you can see he is of a generation where America fought "just wars," regardless of the murky history of some of them. As such, I suspect he was in favor of stopping the spread of Communism, as was the standard government line, in Vietnam. Sekowsky also had a bit of troubling side, as Alter Ego illustrated in an interview with artist Valerie Barclay, who carried on an affair with Sekowsky, in the 1940s, while he was married. It led to all kinds of problems at Timely, where he was working and where he got her a job, as an inker.
He is definitely doing his best Foster, here, right down to the staging of battles, as the panels where Ranagor goes down. That's pure Prince Valiant layout.
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Post by Prince Hal on Sept 19, 2023 14:47:04 GMT -5
plus 1 I can't see clearly enough (in between Young Love and House of Secrets) but looks like a humor book, one at the model's right elbow that looks sci fi or superhero, one behind her arm that looks like a superhero book, and one at her left elbow that I can't make out enough detail to guess. In order... Windy and Willy 2 (Aug 1969) The old Dobie Gillis comic partially reprinted, partially redrawn. Challengers of the Unknown #69 (Aug/Sep 1969) From its "horror" phase, just before it was canceled. Superboy #159 (Sep 1969) During the Adams cover phase. Sugar & Spike #84 (Aug/Sep 1969) Still two years from cancellation.
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Post by rberman on Sept 19, 2023 17:26:48 GMT -5
Um, wooden cannon would be of negligible use, after they have been fired. You pretty much only get one shot, because the "barrel" will be destroyed. There's a reason why firearms and artillery didn't develop until metallurgy had progressed. Sekowsky does make a gesture toward the point you raise, though his wooden cannons are still much more durable than ours would be. Perhaps this planet has ironwood?
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 19, 2023 17:55:18 GMT -5
Um, wooden cannon would be of negligible use, after they have been fired. You pretty much only get one shot, because the "barrel" will be destroyed. There's a reason why firearms and artillery didn't develop until metallurgy had progressed. Sekowsky does make a gesture toward the point you raise, though his wooden cannons are still much more durable than ours would be. Perhaps this planet has ironwood? Let's not drag Bill Willingham into this thread, too.
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Post by chaykinstevens on Sept 20, 2023 2:13:10 GMT -5
Have you reviewed WW #186 yet? I didn't see it when I flicked through the thread.
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Post by rberman on Sept 20, 2023 16:51:46 GMT -5
Have you reviewed WW #186 yet? I didn't see it when I flicked through the thread. I wrote it up but neglected to post it at the appropriate time. I will post it tomorrow, after #192 today. Thanks for pointing that out.
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