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Post by Roquefort Raider on Oct 13, 2022 15:05:09 GMT -5
I'll give you one that I imagine many people will disagree with: Marvel's John Carter Warlord of Mars series. I don't recall much about the writing but I can say that for me the artwork was never quite right. Gil Kane might have been a good choice if he had inked himself (apologies to Cei-U), but Rudy Nebres's style was all wrong, to my eyes, both for the character and his world and for Kane as penciller. Even the Cockrum-inked issues, while they had their moments, didn't catch the spirit of ERB'S Barsoom consistently for me. Great choice! I was lucky with that series: it was the first time I read John Carter in any form, starting with issue #4 (I knew the character existed, but that's all). Kane and Nebres' version were my first visual exposure to Barsoom, so their Mars became my "official" version and nothing contradicted an earlier personal vision. (To this day I still "see" Barsoom as if it had been created by Kane when I read the novels). I enjoyed the first two story arcs very much (Wolfman/Kane and mostly Nebres, then Wolfman/Infantino/Nebres). Then came the new team of Chris Claremont and Ernie Colon... and while Ernie's art is great when he inks himself or when he's matched with certain inkers, it can come across as cartoonish and kind of silly when inked by others; particularly the ones who do not embrace its cartoony aspect, and want to make it look like more realistic. This story arc suffered from it, and I welcomed the arrival of Mike Vosburg and Ricardo Villamonte on the art. However what really hurt the mag, I think, is the way the writer didn't go for an Edgar Rice Burroughs pastiche but for a straight Claremontian plot, complete with a brave, strong and independent woman being captured and thoroughly humiliated by a villain "possessing her body and soul". Not again, please... Also, was an unknown species of winged Martians necessary? It's more Flash Gordon than John Carter, for one, and we had just came out of a long story arc telling us of the origin of the Barsoomian species -with no winged ones mentioned. There was more good than bad in there overall, but once again... how much pain, loss, humiliation and despair can we take before realizing we're not having fun? The annuals were good, though. I regretted the cancellation of the mag.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,051
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Post by Confessor on Oct 13, 2022 16:32:47 GMT -5
I really like the John Carter: Warlord of Mars series, but does it really count as an "underachieving 70s title"? I always understood that sales were quite strong for the most part. It also won an Eagle Award in the late 70s and continued to be published for 2 and a half years (over 30 separate issues, including the three annuals). It must've been pretty successful for a while there, I would think.
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Post by tonebone on Oct 13, 2022 17:40:50 GMT -5
Like Kurt/ Cei-U! , I knew my answer before I even opened the post and like him, my choice is also Ragman. I used to have the whole '70s run and I just love the (original) concept.
Of the 'Others' mentioned here, I'll wholeheartedly second Starfire - it gets an 'A' for effort from me, because it's another good concept, and Vosburg's art is quite nice throughout, although that's the only thing that's consistent about it given that four different writers filed through the 8-issue run.
Edited to add: The 'golden age of reprints' has hardly run its course if the original run of Ragman (plus his other 1970s/early '80s appearances) and Starfire still haven't been collected and published...
I would agree with that. I would LOVE to see that stuff. Usually, you can see some sort of marketing tie in to the obscure things they choose to collect, but with SSOSV, I just can't understand it. DETOUR: We're also missing color volumes of Captain Carrot, Amethyst, Warlord, Blackhawk, and a lot of other great series from the 80's... now back to your regularly scheduled 70's discussion...
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Post by tonebone on Oct 13, 2022 17:42:40 GMT -5
I really like the John Carter: Warlord of Mars series, but does it really count as an "underachieving 70s title"? I always understood that sales were quite strong for the most part. It also won an Eagle Award in the late 70s and continued to be published for 2 and a half years (over 30 separate issues, including the three annuals). It must've been pretty successful for a while there, I would think. I was going to suggest PLOP! but didn't for exactly the same reason... I just read that PLOP! was one of DC's best sellers for a while. So, definitely not underappreciated, at least back in the day.... Would love to see a nice collection of that, too.
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Post by berkley on Oct 13, 2022 18:13:56 GMT -5
The original post said:
which I've been taking to mean artistic promise rather than commercial; and I've been taking "didn't quite get lived up to" as meaning that the creators handling the concept failed to help it fulfill that artistic promise, rather than that they were in the process of doing so but the title was cancelled prematurely (i.e failed commercially). So for me, you could have a title that lasted a hundred issues and was highly successful commercially but still qualify for the thread if it failed artistically as far as that original concept is concerned - which will always be a matter of opinion, of course.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Oct 13, 2022 19:23:04 GMT -5
I agree with MW Gallagar on Rima. Rendano and Nino won it for me. I first got exposed to their art reading the Showcase HoM and HoS and reprints collections of Vamperilla.
Omega Man was great too. Really like the premise. I probably need to read it again as I dont remember a whole lot of it.
Will also agree with Rags on Human Fly though I still dont have the whole series, but like what Ive read of what I own.
Was the Thomas/Kane Warlock really underachieving? I read both it and Starlin’s 20 years after they came out. If so itll easily get my vote.
I think Id probably like Marvel’s Godzilla but Ive only read DH Godzilla.
Edit: I wished Demon Hunter had more than one issue. Would have really like to see more of it. It was a very entertaining concept with good art.
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Post by Batflunkie on Oct 13, 2022 19:44:54 GMT -5
I thought Steel: The Indestructible Man and OMAC were pretty interesting spins on the concept of Captain America. I've read and re-read OMAC more times than I can count honestly. It really does feel like a possible outcome for mankind
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Post by Cei-U! on Oct 13, 2022 20:01:04 GMT -5
A few other of the era's short run series in my collection: Combat Kelly, The Demon, Doc Savage (comic and magazine), Firestorm, Gunhawks, Hercules Unbound, Kobra, Machine Man, Marvel Feature (second series), Marvel Presents, Marvel Spotlight (second series), Prez, Red Wolf, Steel the Indestructible Man, and the Fourth World books.. I'm still working on xompletinbg runs of Inhumans, OMAC, Plop!, Red Sonja, Shade the Changing Man, Supernutal Thrillers, 2001, Warlock, Weird Worlds, and Worlds Unknown.
Cei-U! I summon the odds 'n' ends!
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Post by EdoBosnar on Oct 14, 2022 3:50:20 GMT -5
A few other of the era's short run series in my collection: Combat Kelly, The Demon, Doc Savage (comic and magazine), Firestorm, Gunhawks, Hercules Unbound, Kobra, Machine Man, Marvel Feature (second series), Marvel Presents, Marvel Spotlight (second series), Prez, Red Wolf, Steel the Indestructible Man, and the Fourth World books.. I'm still working on xompletinbg runs of Inhumans, OMAC, Plop!, Red Sonja, Shade the Changing Man, Supernutal Thrillers, 2001, Warlock, Weird Worlds, and Worlds Unknown. Oh, man, I'd be in heaven rummaging through your collection of '70s books. You also mentioned two other books I *really* wish would get the reprint treatment: Hercules Unbound and Inhumans. I have the last three issues of the former in the Art of Walter Simonson book, and absolutely love them. I'd love to have the whole series. And I wish Marvel would reprint in the Inhumans again, preferably in a reasonably priced tpb - that Marvel Masterworks hc is OOP and used copies are always listed for outrageous prices.
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Post by Prince Hal on Oct 14, 2022 7:41:46 GMT -5
A few other of the era's short run series in my collection: Combat Kelly, The Demon, Doc Savage (comic and magazine), Firestorm, Gunhawks, Hercules Unbound, Kobra, Machine Man, Marvel Feature (second series), Marvel Presents, Marvel Spotlight (second series), Prez, Red Wolf, Steel the Indestructible Man, and the Fourth World books.. I'm still working on xompletinbg runs of Inhumans, OMAC, Plop!, Red Sonja, Shade the Changing Man, Supernutal Thrillers, 2001, Warlock, Weird Worlds, and Worlds Unknown. Oh, man, I'd be in heaven rummaging through your collection of '70s books. You also mentioned two other books I *really* wish would get the reprint treatment: Hercules Unbound and Inhumans. I have the last three issues of the former in the Art of Walter Simonson book, and absolutely love them. I'd love to have the whole series. And I wish Marvel would reprint in the Inhumans again, preferably in a reasonably priced tpb - that Marvel Masterworks hc is OOP and used copies are always listed for outrageous prices. EdoBosnar , I double-checked just now, because when I read your post last night, I was almost positive that the Hercules series was collected in a DC Showcase Presents (not in color, of course), and it was, in a book entitled "The Great Disaster" that reprinted an eclectic group of stories, including the Atomic Knights series and stories form Kamandi and Weird War tales. Here's the roster: "Collects stories from STRANGE ADVENTURES #117, 120, 123, 126, 129, 132, 135, 138, 141, 144, 147, 150, 153, 156 and 160, 1st ISSUE SPECIAL #1, HERCULES UNBOUND #1-10, KAMANDI #43-46, WEIRD WAR TALES #22, 23, 30, 32, 40, 42-44, 46-49, 51-53, 64, 68, 69 and 123, HOUSE OF MYSTERY #318, SUPERMAN #295, HOUSE OF SECRETS #86, 95 and 97, THE UNEXPECTED #215 and 221, and AMAZING WORLD OF DC COMICS #12." Amazon has it for a higher price than it had when it came out, but you may be able to find it at a lower price somewhere. www.amazon.com/Showcase-Presents-Disaster-featuring-Knights/dp/1401242901Not the best cover, though:
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Post by Graphic Autist on Oct 14, 2022 7:53:44 GMT -5
Would The Invaders qualify?
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Oct 14, 2022 8:19:53 GMT -5
A favourite of mine was DC's Weird Worlds.
The short-lived series started as "Edgar Rice Burroughs' Weird Worlds", since it featured John Carter of Mars (which had been up to then a back-up feature in DC's Tarzan) and Pellucidar. It then switched to Howard Chaykin's Ironwolf for its last few issues.
The John Carter feature, which had begun as a well-paced adaptation of the first Burroughs Martian novel, decided all of a sudden to zoom through elements from the second and third books to bring the whole thing to a rushed ending. It made for a decidedly less engaging story than the novels. The art, as well, went from a classic approach (Murphy Anderson) to a much looser look by Sal Amendola.
The Pellucidar half of the book fared a little better, with art by Alan Weiss, Mike Kaluta and Dan Green. It still felt a little rushed... and I never managed to care as much for David Innes and Dian the beautiful as for John Carter and Dejah Thoris.
The final three issues, with a young Howard Chaykin doing what he does best, were a treat. But the feature didn't get the chance to go far, as the book was cancelled!
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Post by EdoBosnar on Oct 14, 2022 8:38:58 GMT -5
EdoBosnar , I double-checked just now, because when I read your post last night, I was almost positive that the Hercules series was collected in a DC Showcase Presents (not in color, of course), and it was, in a book entitled "The Great Disaster" that reprinted an eclectic group of stories, including the Atomic Knights series and stories form Kamandi and Weird War tales. Here's the roster: "Collects stories from STRANGE ADVENTURES #117, 120, 123, 126, 129, 132, 135, 138, 141, 144, 147, 150, 153, 156 and 160, 1st ISSUE SPECIAL #1, HERCULES UNBOUND #1-10, KAMANDI #43-46, WEIRD WAR TALES #22, 23, 30, 32, 40, 42-44, 46-49, 51-53, 64, 68, 69 and 123, HOUSE OF MYSTERY #318, SUPERMAN #295, HOUSE OF SECRETS #86, 95 and 97, THE UNEXPECTED #215 and 221, and AMAZING WORLD OF DC COMICS #12." (...) Thanks, Prince Hal; now that you've mentioned it - and posted the cover image - I think I recall seeing that somewhere before, but it didn't stick in my head, probably because it's b&w and I'm less interested in all of the other material included in the book. However, I'll definitely keep it in mind - I'd be willing to pick up a copy if the price is right.
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Post by Batflunkie on Oct 14, 2022 8:40:44 GMT -5
Would The Invaders qualify? That's tough to say, it had fairly lengthy run of 41 issues and even a couple of mini-series
Roger Stern and John Byrne would later go on to incorporate Cap's Invaders stint into his own series as cannon in #253 and #254
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Post by MWGallaher on Oct 14, 2022 9:08:14 GMT -5
EdoBosnar , I double-checked just now, because when I read your post last night, I was almost positive that the Hercules series was collected in a DC Showcase Presents (not in color, of course), and it was, in a book entitled "The Great Disaster" that reprinted an eclectic group of stories, including the Atomic Knights series and stories form Kamandi and Weird War tales. Here's the roster: "Collects stories from STRANGE ADVENTURES #117, 120, 123, 126, 129, 132, 135, 138, 141, 144, 147, 150, 153, 156 and 160, 1st ISSUE SPECIAL #1, HERCULES UNBOUND #1-10, KAMANDI #43-46, WEIRD WAR TALES #22, 23, 30, 32, 40, 42-44, 46-49, 51-53, 64, 68, 69 and 123, HOUSE OF MYSTERY #318, SUPERMAN #295, HOUSE OF SECRETS #86, 95 and 97, THE UNEXPECTED #215 and 221, and AMAZING WORLD OF DC COMICS #12." (...) Thanks, Prince Hal; now that you've mentioned it - and posted the cover image - I think I recall seeing that somewhere before, but it didn't stick in my head, probably because it's b&w and I'm less interested in all of the other material included in the book. However, I'll definitely keep it in mind - I'd be willing to pick up a copy if the price is right. I love that oddity of a collection, which attempts to imply some continuity between a variety of "coming apocalypse" stories. It has a couple of glaring omissions that were probably an oversight: it doesn't include the only two "Tales of the Great Disaster" stories from issues 51-52, which directly reference Kamandi's world "A.D.", despite including "Day After Doomsday" stories in issues before and after those two! (I get a little kick out of detecting omissions from these supposedly complete reprint collections, like BRAVE & BOLD #102 missing from the BATMAN BY NEAL ADAMS OMNIBUS, or Marvel overlooking one B&W Dracula story in their otherwise exhaustive collection.)
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