|
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2022 11:06:22 GMT -5
I've always wondered how those pouch-bands stay up around those massive Liefeld thighs. Judging by Stripe-face Guy's depiction on the left panel, they do indeed slide right down to the ankles when you're in a downward dive! Velcro. -M
|
|
|
Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 30, 2022 19:08:24 GMT -5
A better question is... what's IN there?
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Jul 30, 2022 19:11:52 GMT -5
Liefeld gets help for the artwork on this issue by Dan Fraga who is one of the many artists that got their start in Extreme studios. He draws pages 4-9 ,12 and 13. Of the pages Leifeld has produced there are 5 horizontal pages that are either splashes or regular pages layed out like one page. Does that save time? I've always wondered how those pouch-bands stay up around those massive Liefeld thighs. Judging by Stripe-face Guy's depiction on the left panel, they do indeed slide right down to the ankles when you're in a downward dive! I kid you not on this; but, the US Army actually experimented with equipment pouches on a thigh strap (circa Vietnam War). They found that they had to be fixed so tight on the thigh that they cut off circulation. They eventually developed a suspension rig that clipped onto a web belt, holding a holster or equipment rig, which then had a strap (or straps) that bucked around the thigh, to keep it from swinging around. The weight was carried on the waist belt, but belted to the thigh to eliminate extraneous motion and place it below other equipment. Primarily used for Special Operations. The SAS developed a similar thing to carry equipment more easily, while wearing body armor. The thing of it is, Liefeld and his generation didn't originate this obsession with gear. Wally Wood used to draw some of his characters with various web belts and harnesses and such, adding fine details to it. Steranko picked up on that and used it in Nick Fury Agent of SHIELD...... Thing was, Wood had been a paratrooper and they strapped their equipment to their gear in a variety of ways, for a jump (as can be seen in the jump episodes of Band of Brothers, like for D-Day and Operation Market Garden). That's why he added it to characters (especially in the THUNDER Agents and MARS Patrol). Steranko was paying tribute. The German fallshirmjager paratroops, in WW2, even strapped magazine pouches, for the MP-40 submachine gun, to their shins.... (middle guy) Liefeld's problem was that he just couldn't do it in a way that looked reasonable and made sense, while "looking cool." Wood and Steranko made it "look cool" and "functional." Same with his firearms. I used to call them "Lego Guns," because they looked like something a kid pieced together with his Lego set. Jim Lee did big gun stuff; but at least they looked like they could function, in some fashion.....
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2022 19:13:07 GMT -5
A better question is... what's IN there? license, military ID, credit card, bus pass, walk around $$, library card, and extra Velcro. Oh wait during that time a pre-paid calling card for payphones as well. -M
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Jul 30, 2022 19:15:23 GMT -5
A better question is... what's IN there?
|
|
|
Post by commond on Jul 30, 2022 19:53:07 GMT -5
One thing that Rob was really good at were those pin-up style layouts. Looking at the pages, it's easy to see why his style excited me as a kid. You can just imagine an amped up Rob Liefeld at the drawing board marking out over everything he's drawing. That is, when he was actually drawing something.
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Jul 30, 2022 21:36:46 GMT -5
One thing that Rob was really good at were those pin-up style layouts. Looking at the pages, it's easy to see why his style excited me as a kid. You can just imagine an amped up Rob Liefeld at the drawing board marking out over everything he's drawing. That is, when he was actually drawing something. Of course, that made those comics decidedly short, on reading time. There was an ulterior motive to that, which I think McFarlane glommed onto first: pin-up pages sold better, when the original art pages were offered for sale, than story pages. So, what better way to sell more pages and make extra cash than making more pin-up pages and double page spreads? McFarlane had a better design sense and still conveyed story, using decorative framing by characters, and other elements, making the entire page a whole image, even when it featured multiple panels. That was one of the things that actually drew me to his work on Infinity, Inc. He had things like characters holding up story panels, or logos forming a border around the page, which made them interesting, where the story slowed things down. He said he did it out of boredom, with Roy Thomas' scripts (from a visual sense). The one thing you could say about the Image founders was that they knew how to do single images and pin-ups; but, that is also the most basic layout for an aspiring comic artist. Most fans start out doing (or swiping) pin-up pages and poses and slowly move onto storytelling, as they develop (if they do). I had a bunch of that, in my portfolio for the Kubert School admission, though i knew they would want to see more and also mixed in some architectural renderings (including a sketch of a Frank Lloyd Wright building, where I tried to fudge perspective on a door, which stood out like a neon light) and some basic story layouts. My attempts at story panels were crap, as I had issues with figure placement and scale. So, I can understand why Rob often resorted to swiping, especially on story layouts. By this point, he was using a pretty formulaic layout to his stuff and had a major dependence on stock poses. I do agree that the Image founders ran into major issues with running their studios and a publishing house, which got them in dutch with Diamond and Capital and retailers. That was part of the reasoning behind bringing in Larry Marder to handle the business side of things. Valentino probably had the most experience, based on his indie roots, in terms of self-management, though Larsen was the most consistent at hitting his deadlines (as memory suggests). McFarlane was fairly consistent, but also wasn't trying to launch an entire line. I wonder if Rob suffered from ADHD? His publishing suggested attention problems and he generated lots of ideas; but, the execution was another matter, as was consistency within a single story or across issues. Makes me wonder about a problem like ADD/ADHD.
|
|
|
Post by tarkintino on Jul 31, 2022 3:56:55 GMT -5
Not ADHD, but a severe lack of awareness of structured storytelling skills (both on the written and visual level), and the basic, required ability to know how to create a world that mirrors the human perspective instead of some erratic video game-like imagery which no one could possibly relate to as being familiar or possible in order to accept the fantastic elements.
|
|
|
Post by zaku on Jul 31, 2022 5:52:01 GMT -5
A better question is... what's IN there?
|
|
|
Post by spoon on Jul 31, 2022 9:50:50 GMT -5
My hope for this thread is that there will be topic drift completely away from Rob Liefeld to restore the cosmic balance after every CCF Zoom I've ever attended has been diverted to Liefeld.
Like, I'm reading The Champions and noticed the team's business manager, Richard Fenster, seems like a precursor to Cameron Hodge, whose first appearance wouldn't come along for another decade.
|
|
|
Post by Icctrombone on Jul 31, 2022 10:50:42 GMT -5
My hope is to just review the series just on it’s Merits. I haven’t mentioned anything about feet , just the storytelling choices. I missed all of his work from New Mutants and X-force so I wanted to see what made him one of the top creators for that period of time.
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Jul 31, 2022 12:03:23 GMT -5
My hope is to just review the series just on it’s Merits. I haven’t mentioned anything about feet , just the storytelling choices. I missed all of his work from New Mutants and X-force so I wanted to see what made him one of the top creators for that period of time. I think you will find better evidence for that in New Mutants/X-Force and Hawk & Dove, than you will in Youngblood. Those books gave him the name, which Youngblood and his other books traded upon, plus the image launch, plus the speculator boom pushing sales numbers into absurd levels (relative to the actual audience numbers). Liefeld and his studios cranked a lot of stuff out, early on, but then when 2nd and 3rd issues were ridiculously late or never appeared, people started waking up and his books dropped way off, compared to the other founders. Supreme was one of his longer lasting things, once he got Alan Moore to write it. Liefeld was good at generating ideas, though to me, they were all pretty much swiped from longer-lived properties and they were usually executed by the rookies in his studio, when they were published at all. Rob kind of was like a flare fired off; he burned pretty brightly at the start, then trailed off. I think timing, more than anything, worked in his favor, in the beginning.
|
|
|
Post by Icctrombone on Jul 31, 2022 12:18:02 GMT -5
I don’t dispute that. The accomplishment alone gets my attention. He made a fortune from his Marvel work and he parlayed it into starting his own company where he keeps the money for films etc. it’s really impressive. No sad stories about him only getting a movie ticket to a blockbuster movie based on his creation.
|
|
|
Post by Icctrombone on Jul 31, 2022 18:38:44 GMT -5
Youngblood # 4Writer, pencilerRob LiefeldInkerDanny MikiColor design and separations Steve Oliff and Olyoptics
Date of release:2-23-93 SynopsisDiehard, Shaft, Chapel, Vogue, Photon, and Bedrock rush to Berlin to help the Youngblood away team in a fight. Diehard and Bedrock jump out of their transport plane and meet Prophet who explains that he and others were attacked by the Disciples and the others are all down. They confront the disciples while Shaft and Chapel meet Prophet. Diehard and Bedrock meet the architect of the entire attack who is called Darkthorn and are subdued. A battered Sentinel is found by Vogue who explains their predicament. The last page shows Bedrock under Darkthorn’s control ready to attack the rest of the Youngblood team. The final page says that this story is to be concluded in Brigade # 4. Impressions: This is a quick decompressed style story where nothing really happens except Badrock being taken over to the enemy's side. It’s surprising to see that it’s continued in Brigade # 4 until you discover that It’s a flip book that with Brigade #4 on one side and Youngblood # 5 on the back cover. Is it a ploy to get the buyer to buy 2 copies? The layouts and storytelling is decent. Maybe the team is hitting its stride. The backup story is the debut of Dale Keown's Pitt Character which was Keowns first work for Image. Reportedly, he was payed 10k to join Image with that story.
|
|
|
Post by commond on Jul 31, 2022 19:17:51 GMT -5
I'm glad there's been a backlash to the Rob Liefeld criticism in recent times, especially some of the public shaming that goes on. I do think folks go too far in the other direction when they claim his work is avant-garde or when they compare him to Kirby. However, I think the modern cartoonists who grew up on Liefeld have a lot more interesting things to say about his work than his detractors.
|
|