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Post by mistermets on Jul 10, 2022 8:30:44 GMT -5
Before I go into the regular post-Crisis books, I'm going to look at a major mini-series released a decade later, set during the same time of Man of Steel. It's not a prequel, or a sequel as much as it is a parallel story. Superman For All Seasons #1In all of my griping, I neglected to mention that I really like you jumping over to a later story set during the Man of Steel/early Byrne period within these reviews and hope it continues. If you're taking requests (or if you're just looking for something that might be of personal interest to you) can I suggest Roger Stern/Steve Rude's The Incredible Hulk vs. Superman from 1999 (but set sometime between Byrne's Man of Steel #6 and Superman #1)? Not that I expect you to cover every story published at a later date but set during this period, but hey - Roger Stern, Steve Rude, The Hulk's 1960's continuity synchronized with Superman's post-Crisis canon - might be fun. I'll consider recommendations at least. The Incredible Hulk VS Superman
The basic plot is that Superman goes looking for the Hulk. His efforts are complicated when Lois realizes that Clark Kent is looking for the Hulk as well (she doesn't know it's to avoid anyone questioning why Superman and Clark Kent are seen in New Mexico), and wants to beat him to whatever story he's got. Steve Rude's art is fantastic. I love the little details like Hulk interrupting a barbecue, and still having the chicken in his hands when Superman shows up. This doesn't really feel like a crossover as much as a retelling of Superman's first encounter with an unusual member of the rogues gallery. There wouldn't need to many changes to the material if this one-shot were released because the Hulk was a DC character showing up in a Superman film, or maybe some kind of crossover, so they just wanted to retell the first encounter. The story is a lot of fun. I like the reactions of people in New Mexico to the people from Metropolis. They don't know Lex Luthor, so Lois is nervous that Lex Luthor might be able to charm unsuspecting women. This is also a DC/ Marvel crossover that builds on continuity, as Lois Lane searches for information about the Hulk's silver age exploits. It's a story built on the idea that these are decent reporters. With the Silver Age Marvel setting, and the retro art of Steve Rude, there could be an argument that it would work better for Pre-Crisis Superman, although it works perfectly fine here. I like how cavalier General Ross is about Superman's well-beings, and how this ultimately ties more into the love story between Bruce and Betty. Grade: A-
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Post by codystarbuck on Jul 10, 2022 11:45:16 GMT -5
Rude did several retro projects, around this time, and they are all great. Unfortunately, he started butting heads with Marvel editorial and swore off working with them.
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Post by mistermets on Jul 11, 2022 11:11:06 GMT -5
And now onto the monthly titles. Superman #1The first regular issue of a Post-Crisis Superman title features a new version of a classic villain: Metallo. The structure is a bit odd, with Superman investigating some mysteries hinted at in the Man of Steel mini-series. This could've easily been done as the conclusion of that series, as the same writer/ artist provides payoff to clues in earlier issues about someone else being aware of a Kryptonian baby's arrival to Kansas, and we also see Lois learning that Superman is an alien (something he didn't know until just recently.) I can understand why this was done as the first issue, to show that this is the point when readers see all of Superman's adventures, and just don't skip ahead. There is also a fresh take on the Clark/ Lois dynamic here. Clark isn't as charming as Superman, but he's not a dork. He's a handsome, successful reporter. He feels like a likable guy from a 1980s comedy who ends up getting the girl. Lois knows that he likes her, and is kinda blase about it. There are cool scenes when Metallo flashes back to his origin, which ends up solving a few mysteries regarding a murdered scientist in the first scene. The resolution may be anticlimactic. The scientist who could do the most damage to Superman dies before the first page. Metallo isn't on the same level in terms of menaces. And then he's beaten pretty easily, probably in a set up to some kind of conflict between Superman and Lex, although I don't get any sense of why we should be more invested in that beyond their Pre-Crisis history. I've got some complaints, and in retrospect there were likely better ways to relaunch Superman, but it could've been a lot worse and this is a decent one-off that provides some closure to the Man of Steel mini-series, while serving as proof of concept for a legitimate take on the series: largely single issue stories that experiment in form. This isn't the first time I get Will Eisner's Spirit vibes from Byrne's work on Superman, and it's likely not to be the last. It does make sense with a focus on single issue stories about an iconic character. Grade: B+
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Post by mistermets on Jul 11, 2022 11:14:19 GMT -5
Rude did several retro projects, around this time, and they are all great. Unfortunately, he started butting heads with Marvel editorial and swore off working with them. If anyone's interested in why Steve Rude is hard to work with, the documentary Rude Dude: the Steve Rude story, is a good take on his struggles with mental illness.
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Post by zaku on Jul 11, 2022 13:01:15 GMT -5
Clark isn't as charming as Superman, but he's not a dork. He's a handsome, successful reporter Yep, how a barely functioning adult and klutz who couldn't walk two meters without stumbling and with the courage of a rat suffering from PTSD could be a successful journalist was even more absurd than the moving planets thing. Not to mention how one possibly could even thing: "Hey, you know what the perfect job would be for this amoeba that disappears at the most inopportune moments? Prime time news!" Thanks Byrne for this!
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Post by tonebone on Jul 12, 2022 10:58:33 GMT -5
Rude did several retro projects, around this time, and they are all great. Unfortunately, he started butting heads with Marvel editorial and swore off working with them. If anyone's interested in why Steve Rude is hard to work with, the documentary Rude Dude: the Steve Rude story, is a good take on his struggles with mental illness. That documentary is both heartbreaking and enlightening. A lot of times, we forget that the artists we admire are real people, and not art-producing machines. I think with a lot of artistic genius, there often comes mental issues.
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Post by Duragizer on Jul 12, 2022 22:31:39 GMT -5
Clark isn't as charming as Superman, but he's not a dork. He's a handsome, successful reporter Yep, how a barely functioning adult and klutz who couldn't walk two meters without stumbling and with the courage of a rat suffering from PTSD could be a successful journalist was even more absurd than the moving planets thing. Not to mention how one possibly could even thing: "Hey, you know what the perfect job would be for this amoeba that disappears at the most inopportune moments? Prime time news!" Thanks Byrne for this! As much as I dislike the pre- Crisis/Donnerverse takes on Clark (and I REALLY dislike them), I think Byrne went too far in the opposite direction. Here's this muscle-bound jock running around, with the same height/build as Superman, much of the same body language, with only glasses and a different hairstyle to distinguish them, and I'm really supposed to believe no one would think they might be the same person? I guess that's why I like Dean Cain's Clark* so much. His Clark was neither a dweeb nor a stud; he was the boy next door/everyman — a nice balance between Weisinger's and Byrne's versions of the character. *His Superman, not so much.
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Post by zaku on Jul 13, 2022 2:37:54 GMT -5
Yep, how a barely functioning adult and klutz who couldn't walk two meters without stumbling and with the courage of a rat suffering from PTSD could be a successful journalist was even more absurd than the moving planets thing. Not to mention how one possibly could even thing: "Hey, you know what the perfect job would be for this amoeba that disappears at the most inopportune moments? Prime time news!" Thanks Byrne for this! As much as I dislike the pre- Crisis/Donnerverse takes on Clark (and I REALLY dislike them), I think Byrne went too far in the opposite direction. Here's this muscle-bound jock running around, with the same height/build as Superman, much of the same body language, with only glasses and a different hairstyle to distinguish them, and I'm really supposed to believe no one would think they might be the same person? Well, there are probably literally thousands of people in Metropolysis who fit that description. Why should suspicions focus only on Clark? For this reason I think the justification for Kal pretending to be such a wuss in the Pre-Crisis world made no sense. What was the obvious implication? That every black-haired man with a minimum of backbone in the city was automatically suspected of being the Man of Steel?
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Post by mistermets on Jul 13, 2022 10:51:45 GMT -5
The Adventures of Superman #424
There are three main stories here. Superman gets a new coworker when gossip columnist Cat Grant joins the Daily Planet. It's a successful introduction to a supporting character, one who sticks around and provides a culture clash with the Daily Planet. The main knock is the implication she slept with celebrities to get scoops, which is over the top.
There's a subplot where Lois' mother is sick, and Lex gets involved. This story's done pretty well, suggesting problems for Superman and company, without taking up too much space, and without diminishing Lois. I like the scene where she's taken against her will to Lex Luthor, and she's ready to prosecute him. And then there's the main plot where some terrorist group has armor, and causes some trouble for Superman. It's generic, the least interesting part of the issue. Superman has some decent scenes where he's able to find survivors in rubble (although twice in one issue in different circumstances is overkill) and the moment Jerry Ordway depicts Superman for the first time is a big deal. The A-plot is not resolved in this issue, so it's the biggest cliffhanger of the first month of the relaunch. It's also the only story that's picked up next issue.
Grade: B
The Adventures of Superman #425Professor Hamilton's backstory is darker than it seemed before. It's a bit of a cliche of how capitalists treat scientists, and it is weird that some of this stuff wasn't mentioned in the previous issue (IE- how he has been blamed for murder.) It's also no longer about the government ripping him off, and more about individuals being responsible. He pulls similar stunts with his force field as he did last issue, but to different effects.
Superman continues fighting a robot and it gives him more trouble than it should. The terrorist group is very committed to their vague cause, and that horrifies Superman, although these scenes of villains poisoning themselves is a bit of a cliche. Hamilton gets involved, and makes things worse, although his mania is understandable. The format here is a bit unconventional, as Hamilton tells his story to an unseen listener, covering events prior the previous issue, a resolution to one plot thread and a new challenge for Superman. I do like the idea of someone introduced in the previous issue who was just brought into Superman's world going off the deep end, but this is getting to be a trend of scientists trying to do terrible things to Superman to get attention, especially in conjunction with the first issue of Action Comics' new direction. Grade: B
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Post by codystarbuck on Jul 13, 2022 14:41:44 GMT -5
The Adventures of Superman #424
There are three main stories here. Superman gets a new coworker when gossip columnist Cat Grant joins the Daily Planet. It's a successful introduction to a supporting character, one who sticks around and provides a culture clash with the Daily Planet. The main knock is the implication she slept with celebrities to get scoops, which is over the top.
There's a subplot where Lois' mother is sick, and Lex gets involved. This story's done pretty well, suggesting problems for Superman and company, without taking up too much space, and without diminishing Lois. I like the scene where she's taken against her will to Lex Luthor, and she's ready to prosecute him. And then there's the main plot where some terrorist group has armor, and causes some trouble for Superman. It's generic, the least interesting part of the issue. Superman has some decent scenes where he's able to find survivors in rubble (although twice in one issue in different circumstances is overkill) and the moment Jerry Ordway depicts Superman for the first time is a big deal. The A-plot is not resolved in this issue, so it's the biggest cliffhanger of the first month of the relaunch. It's also the only story that's picked up next issue.
Grade: B
The Adventures of Superman #425Professor Hamilton's backstory is darker than it seemed before. It's a bit of a cliche of how capitalists treat scientists, and it is weird that some of this stuff wasn't mentioned in the previous issue (IE- how he has been blamed for murder.) It's also no longer about the government ripping him off, and more about individuals being responsible. He pulls similar stunts with his force field as he did last issue, but to different effects.
Superman continues fighting a robot and it gives him more trouble than it should. The terrorist group is very committed to their vague cause, and that horrifies Superman, although these scenes of villains poisoning themselves is a bit of a cliche. Hamilton gets involved, and makes things worse, although his mania is understandable. The format here is a bit unconventional, as Hamilton tells his story to an unseen listener, covering events prior the previous issue, a resolution to one plot thread and a new challenge for Superman. I do like the idea of someone introduced in the previous issue who was just brought into Superman's world going off the deep end, but this is getting to be a trend of scientists trying to do terrible things to Superman to get attention, especially in conjunction with the first issue of Action Comics' new direction. Grade: B I liked the introduction of Cat (not necessarily a fan of the character, though she gained some dimension, over time), as a woman attracted to Clark, as it made a nice twist of the whole love triangle bit. I have to wonder if the seamed stockings, seen in the panel, was a visual code that she was a bit "fast" or just someone's fetish, as about the only time you saw something like that, in the 80s, was in a music video or a pin-up spread. This wasn't the Golden Age or the 50s. It does remind me of an episode of The Tonight Show, in the Carson days, when his guest was Jean Marsh (Upstairs, Downstairs, The Eagle Has Landed, Doctor Who, etc..), promoting some new project and she was wearing black seamed stockings and Carson immediately commented on it and asked her what it was that grabbed male attention. She thought for a moment and said something like, "I think they are like arrows..." and Johnny then milks an expression for a laugh. That is the thing, though, that manufacturers had progressed beyond the need for them; so, Cat would have to deliberately dress that way, which would seem more provocative, in that period. She was played, especially as a gossip columnist, as very flirty (even more so on Lois & Clark), though they did pull back on that and showed her as a single mother (if memory serves) and that it was a bit of an act.
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Post by chadwilliam on Jul 13, 2022 17:32:03 GMT -5
The Adventures of Superman #424
There are three main stories here. Superman gets a new coworker when gossip columnist Cat Grant joins the Daily Planet. It's a successful introduction to a supporting character, one who sticks around and provides a culture clash with the Daily Planet. The main knock is the implication she slept with celebrities to get scoops, which is over the top.
There's a subplot where Lois' mother is sick, and Lex gets involved. This story's done pretty well, suggesting problems for Superman and company, without taking up too much space, and without diminishing Lois. I like the scene where she's taken against her will to Lex Luthor, and she's ready to prosecute him. According to Byrne, Wolfman's Businessman Luthor initially came with a caveat which would certainly would have diminished Lois: "[Wolfman] said he had got what he called a fix of Luthor that he had in mind for a couple of years that he sort of just developed on his own, and he wanted to tell it to me, on two conditions. The first condition was that if indeed I liked his idea, we would use the entire idea precisely as he presented it to me, or he wouldn't take the second seat. And if he didn't take the second seat, I had to promise that I would not use any part of his fix for Luthor. That seemed perfectly reasonable to me. So I agreed to that. And he presented to me with sort of a little story. I remember exactly what he said. He said, quote, "Outside Metropolis, there is a mountain. On the top of this mountain in his fabulous Xanadulike estate lives Lex Luthor, the world's richest man, and his mistress, Lois Lane. You see, she is drawn to power," close quote. And I immediately said, "No, that's not what I want to do with Lois, that is much more of a fix of Lois than it is of Luthor. I guess we won't be working together." And Marv said, "No, you don't have to use that part," which of course surprised me. And I said "OK." And I said the part of Luther as the world's richest man; let me see what I can do with that. Wolfman agreed to take the second seat and do the second title."ohdannyboy.blogspot.com/2012/09/when-i-am-working-for-marvel-i-am-loyal.htmlThough Byrne rightfully dismissed this idea I'm glad to see that some residue of it didn't seep in when Wolfman took over Adventures - his Lois is clearly repulsed by Luthor. And while I'm not a fan of Businessman Luthor, I do like Wolfman's handling of the character much more than I do Byrne's whose take was far too Donald Trumpish for me to take seriously. If Superman is going to fail to stop Luthor time and again, it's a little easier to take if the villain's got enough brains to make Superman look like he's up against a criminal genius than Snidely Whiplash. I was also going to ask if any attempt were made to give Superman and Clark Kent separate personalities during this period. As Duragiuzer noted, without distinct identities, the common complaint that Clark Kent is just 'Superman with glasses', for once rings true. However, the snippets you've posted above (from Superman #1/Adv #424) depicts a dorkier (Clark's dialogue in Superman #1), klutzier (getting his leg stuck in an elevator in Adv #424), and even cowardly Kent (his claustrophobia comment in Hamilton's apartment in Adv #424) than I remember from this period. Pre-Crisis Kent, of course, was spineless and likely would have been pounding on that cage until he passed out, but he wasn't really a fish out of water. I mean, he might be terrified of doors, but he could still open them. It was something which I don't like about Christopher Reeves depiction of Clark Kent - Clark Kent should be cowardly, yes, but bashful and klutzy, no - and it seems to be Wolfman's template here with a bit of the pre-Crisis Clark still intact.
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Post by zaku on Jul 14, 2022 2:44:15 GMT -5
Pre-Crisis Kent, of course, was spineless and likely would have been pounding on that cage until he passed out, They really went to far with the "spineless wimp Clark" in the pre-Crisis era. It made absolutely no sense as far as his secret identity was concerned and made him look just plain mean. I write about it here (I don't want to derail the thread!)
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Post by mistermets on Jul 14, 2022 8:47:40 GMT -5
And the last of the first issues of the monthly post-Crisis titles... Action Comics #584
A wildly and intentionally out of character Superman gets into a fight with the Teen Titans. Obviously, there's something going on with the weird way he's talking, and he makes increasingly inappropriate comments, suggesting potential nastiness in store for Wonder Girl especially. An important character pops up at the bottom of Page 18, and helps the entire story make sense. This scene just seems to be set up badly. He is on the cover, but it seems like it would've made sense to show him a bit more before he makes a major announcement to the Teen Titans in an extreme close-up panel. It may be an intentional choice to focus on intense action (it is Action Comics after all) before we get to him and the explanation, but it doesn't quite work. I know shaxper really doesn't like the message on disability. It is handled clumsily here, although the message is meant to be positive, about how people can overcome disabilities. It is way too complex a topic to deal with in half of page, so I'm not that bothered by it. There's also a major invention here that would make the inventor rich beyond his wildest dreams, and they don't consider the implications. Soul transfers are a cliche, but it opens up opportunities for undercover work, for understanding other people (if you switch bodies, do you experience taste or color the same way? If someone with a mental handicap switches bodies, where does the anxiety/ schizophrenia/ etc. go?) and interesting legal and moral questions (Can a sick rich man pay someone to swap bodies? Can an aging athlete swap bodies with someone in his physical prime?) It's probably not a smart resolution to have Superman insult a guy who came up with this kind of device, and then leave him with an invention that could change the world for the worse (IE- There are times Lex Luthor may pay millions to swap bodies with a secret service agent.) Grade: C It is fun to see Superman as a bad guy. It's something that could've been done as a TPB-length crossover, but here it is a single issue story. Although it honestly might've been better better as a longer story given the challenge, and the potential effects on the characters. Superman Relaunch Thoughts
It made sense to get rid of Superboy. It is a fundamentally different character if he was already famous as a teen hero before he became Superman, and the Spider-Man comics pinpoint how it would be odd for a teen to call himself Anything-boy. Superman's background is still fertile ground. They should've done more with that. After Flashpoint, it was smart for DC to have two books; one in the present day, one in the past. They likely didn't know that the market was there, so long before Legends of the Dark Knight. Although the Superboy books were popular, and there were hints of potential ideas. Lois' sister was blinded by terrorists. What did bad guys do during the two years Lex Luthor was in Metropolis? It seems a problem is the refusal to tell longer stories. I didn't really consider before that John Byrne as a writer doesn't like seem to like longer stories, and while he said he was among those responsible for the trend in his introduction to the Man of Steel, it doesn't track. The epics of his Fantastic Four run could easily be split further. His Doom Patrol was two issues each. Spider-Man: Chapter One averaged to about one issue per villain, even if the structure was off. Generations followed a Man of Steel structure, focusing on one single issue adventure at a time. I get that it's complicated with the care the Superman team put into making sure that all the titles are within one month of each other (so there would be a few two-parters to come.) There's no need to go overboard, but longer Superman stories on occasion are a good thing. A crossover could've been a useful to launch the regular titles, to show that this is the moment to start following Superman, because I don't really get the sense that this particular moment is so great. There is a counterargument that Superman really well in dense mostly single issue stories. My favorite Superman story, Grant Morrison and Frank Quitely's All-Star Superman is structured that way. That was also how most silver age adventures went, and it also describes the well-regarded Superman Adventures, the comic book adventures of the 1990s cartoon Superman. I like the single issue stories, but I also like occasional bigger stories. I do think Superman at this time could benefit from a Kraven's Last Hunt, something TPB-length. I don't think they quite thought it through that they now have a Superman who should have roughly the same amount of experience of the pre-Crisis Superman (It was relevant to the plot of Action Comics #507-508 that Superman was under-30.) He's been at it as long; they're both in their late twenties. So it's weird to just introduce Kryptonite with issue one. It's odd that Lois recently discovered that he likes her, and that Lex hasn't suffered any major setbacks yet. Clark's written a few books, but we don't know what those are. The reality is that they needed him to be around for a while so that the timeline can include developments for the Teen Titans. Theoretically, the Man of Steel issues should have a different vibe than what we're seeing here. Clark Kent should be about five years younger when he gets a job at the Daily Planet. John Byrne has many skills as an artist, but his characters are generic when they're meant to look different, and he is not a guy who can indicate through body language and other details the subtle passage of time (Tim Sale succeeded in that category.)
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Post by badwolf on Jul 14, 2022 9:09:06 GMT -5
I don't think there is a message on disability, and it's very weird to me that anyone would think that there was. This is one guy, a mad scientist in a comic book. I can believe that in all of history, there was at some point someone that felt this way. I know that the tendency nowadays is to think that one portrayal is meant to represent everyone of that type, but it's not true. If people want representation, then sometimes they're going to be the bad guy too. Anyway, Roger Bochs over in Alpha Flight puts the lie to any presumption that this is some kind of personal view of Byrne's. Bochs was a disabled man who did use his genius to help himself and others. A loyal man who never turned on his friends, even when someone was using an influencing device to make him do so. Not to mention a lasting character rather than a one-off.
I agree that two-part stories might have helped them breathe a little bit more. But I think the tradition with team-up books is to be done in one for the most part. There have been occasional exceptions, but they're not the norm. I did like how an upcoming Action story seems to be finished in that issue, but we later find it isn't quite.
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Post by chadwilliam on Jul 14, 2022 20:54:32 GMT -5
I don't think they quite thought it through that they now have a Superman who should have roughly the same amount of experience of the pre-Crisis Superman (It was relevant to the plot of Action Comics #507-508 that Superman was under-30.) He's been at it as long; they're both in their late twenties. So it's weird to just introduce Kryptonite with issue one. It's odd that Lois recently discovered that he likes her, and that Lex hasn't suffered any major setbacks yet. Clark's written a few books, but we don't know what those are. The reality is that they needed him to be around for a while so that the timeline can include developments for the Teen Titans. Though for the most part the Bronze-Age Superman shared the same history as his Silver Age self, it's obvious that Superman was de-aged shortly after the 1970's rolled around. There's no way the Superman of the 1950's and 1960's was only about seven or eight years older than Jimmy Olsen as was supposed to be the case when DC established him as eternally 29. I mean, Superman was theoretically old enough to adopt Jimmy had he decided to do so during the classic era. However, even a 29 year old Superman still had his history as Superboy and Superbaby providing him with more experience than his similarly aged post-Crisis counterpart. In fact, there may be no greater gap in Byrne's backstory than just what Superman was up to when he was performing all those superdeeds between Smallville and Metropolis as alluded to Ma Kent's scrapbook. Though I like Superboy, there's also an appeal to the notion of Clark Kent secretly saving lives, uncovering mysteries, depositing historical artifacts such as the Titanic itself on the doorstep of The Smithsonian in the middle of the night. We seemed to get more of Ma Kent's backstory than we did Superman's in his little World of... mini-series.
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