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Post by codystarbuck on Jul 3, 2022 12:10:20 GMT -5
I think I just noticed that for the first time as well! At least, I don't remember noticing before. They are definitely references. Not sure if they actually look like them, though.
By Byrne's own admission, he's bad at likenesses. I was gonna say it was never his forte, even when it is someone pretty recognizable, like FDR. When he and Claremont were doing the whole Dark Phoenix thing and introduced the Hellfire Club, the only one that resembled the actual influence was Mastermind, who was based on Peter Wyngarde, who starred in the "Touch of Brimstone" episode of the Avengers, that featured the Hellfire Club (and Claremont swiped). Sebastian Shaw was supposed to be based on Robert Shaw, Harry Leland on Orson Welles, and Donald Pierce on Donald Sutherland, yet the closest was Leland, who had a vague similarity to Welles, though mostly in girth. Byrne's faces do tend to have a generic quality to them (so do many comic artists). He was better if he was using one of his longtime friends, like Roger Stern or Duffy Voland. Kitty Pride was supposed to be based, visually, on a young girl he knew. Still, her features looked much like many other women Byrne drew, as did the female character in Next Men.
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Post by chaykinstevens on Jul 3, 2022 12:21:19 GMT -5
Byrne's faces do tend to have a generic quality to them (so do many comic artists). He was better if he was using one of his longtime friends, like Roger Stern or Duffy Voland. Kitty Pride was supposed to be based, visually, on a young girl he knew. Still, her features looked much like many other women Byrne drew, as did the female character in Next Men. I think Kitty was named after someone Byrne knew at art school, but she was intended to look like a young Sigourney Weaver.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jul 3, 2022 12:38:31 GMT -5
Byrne's faces do tend to have a generic quality to them (so do many comic artists). He was better if he was using one of his longtime friends, like Roger Stern or Duffy Voland. Kitty Pride was supposed to be based, visually, on a young girl he knew. Still, her features looked much like many other women Byrne drew, as did the female character in Next Men. I think Kitty was named after someone Byrne knew at art school, but she was intended to look like a young Sigourney Weaver. Further reinforcing that Byrne sucks at likenesses, as I see no Sigourney Weaver in Byrne's version of her.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2022 14:47:22 GMT -5
I agree with codystarbuck about Byrne’s generic faces. When I first read Next Men, there were a lot of his “Superman faces” on certain characters. And pics of his Superman (with an exasperated face) look very similar to, say, an exasperated Reed Richards. Lois Lane’s face also “appeared” in a lot of his work. Just my view.
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Post by mistermets on Jul 3, 2022 18:55:34 GMT -5
The Man of Steel #4A major highlight of the Post-Crisis relaunch is the new take on Lex Luthor of a billionaire who was the most important man in Metropolis before Superman showed up. One minor scene I really liked is where Clark has to shave an unusual way, especially so that Lois Lane in the next room doesn't know what's going on. We get a sense of how easy it would be for him to slip up, and for someone else to realize his secret. There is some stuff here that doesn't make sense. Clark seems quite ignorant of Lex Luthor, even though he has been in Metropolis for a year and half. Granted, Luthor's been away, and in the context of 1980s comics there has been a high amount of set-up. The history the characters that just doesn't seem to match the comics. This doesn't feel like a Clark Kent who has been coworkers with Lois for a year and a half, and in love with her the whole time. It's a minor downside with the single issue format, especially as the one issue set during that year and a half was set in Gotham City. It seems like a waste that they didn't explore the dynamic of Superman in Metropolis before Lex Luthor throws a wrench in things, although that's more about if they had structured other issues differently than anything to do with these 22 pages.
And these 22 pages are good. The confrontation between Lois and Lex is a highlight. It gets to her personality, shows off Byrne's storytelling skills, and I like the detail that Lex Luthor basically wants to possess Lois Lane. The Man of Steel is essentially a checklist of important Superman moments. And Byrne sells two more pretty well, with Lex Luthor getting humbled by Superman for the first time, and deciding that it's time to show who's boss. Grade: A
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Post by mistermets on Jul 3, 2022 19:00:39 GMT -5
The only thing I don't like about #2 is the idea that Lois would drive her car into the bay on the off chance that it would attract Superman's attention. It makes her seem insane. She did have an aqualung, and that leads to the revelation that Superman knew what she was up to. It is still kinda nuts, but maybe in a way that works for a pushy reporter. What I like about Byrne's run: - Byrne's pencils (especially under Karl Kesel's inks).
- His Krypton.
- The more psi-based approach towards Kal's powers (yes, I'm a supporter of the bio-electric aura).
- Clark Kent being part of Kal's core identity rather than a nebbish mask.
- Jonathan & Martha being alive.
- Luthor as a corrupt billionaire.
And that's it, really. And even many of the aspects I like I like mostly on a conceptual level. Byrne is such a mediocre writer, and an obvious Reaganite. And most of the concepts were not Byrne's. More on that here. It's a fair point that he's getting credit for ideas by Miller and Gerber (that would've been an interesting pair to take over a Superman relaunch) although when looking at the comics, what matters is the execution. Someone else could have taken the raw ideas, and made worse comics out of it.
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Post by badwolf on Jul 3, 2022 19:32:05 GMT -5
I think I just noticed that for the first time as well! At least, I don't remember noticing before. They are definitely references. Not sure if they actually look like them, though.
By Byrne's own admission, he's bad at likenesses. Just had another look at FF #262 which has Mike Carlin in it. Don't think these guys are supposed to look like the "real thing." I think he's pretty good at drawing himself. (I'm sure someone will have a comment about that.)
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Post by badwolf on Jul 3, 2022 19:44:24 GMT -5
The only thing I don't like about #2 is the idea that Lois would drive her car into the bay on the off chance that it would attract Superman's attention. It makes her seem insane. She did have an aqualung, and that leads to the revelation that Superman knew what she was up to. It is still kinda nuts, but maybe in a way that works for a pushy reporter. Not sure that makes it less crazy.
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Post by commond on Jul 3, 2022 19:47:47 GMT -5
Oh man, John Byrne generic faces... and his homunculus children...
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,709
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Post by shaxper on Jul 3, 2022 21:58:41 GMT -5
although when looking at the comics, what matters is the execution. Someone else could have taken the raw ideas, and made worse comics out of it. Inevitably, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but mine is that you are currently reading the best parts of his run and it is almost all downhill from here. I truly don't believe there were any writers in the DC stable who would have done worse, especially when you get to Action #592 and 593. Thus is not to say the run is not worth reading, but most of the good stuff happened after Byrne left.
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Post by mistermets on Jul 4, 2022 9:07:51 GMT -5
The Man of Steel #5
This one introduces the post-Crisis Bizarro, or at least the first of the them. We lose the "Me Am Bizarro" charm, although that remains something that can be done in the future, since this story is more of a prototype. It does create an unusual challenge for this Superman, as he's pit against someone with his powers for the first time, and has to be worry about keeping his secret identity safe. The unliving, barely comprehending Bizarro here is still creepy and tragic. The main story adapts elements of a Silver Age Bizarro story in Superboy #68, with Bizarro's interactions with a blind girl. Here, the blind girl is Lois' flight attendant sister, injured in the aftermath of a terrorist attack. I'm not sure I should count this it against this issue that it was never brought up again, or that we never got to see that story. It sounds potentially interesting. Her histrionics over her disability are extreme, and there are some troubling implications about the message for the handicapped, although I can understand it as the story of one particular woman, whose sister is also capable of extreme behavior. Lex Luthor has been trying to copy Superman for two years, so more time has passed. If this mini-series is supposed to cover the first five years of Superman, a format of done in one adventures might not be the best choice. It's starting to feel like random back issues from a much longer run. It does provide some territory for other projects to explore, although it takes a while (Superman For All Seasons is an obvious highlight) for others to cover the adventures of the more inexperienced Superman. Grade: B+
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Post by badwolf on Jul 4, 2022 9:17:34 GMT -5
I love that visual joke of showing the old Luthor power armor on that splash page. Although if you examine the image, Superman is clearly not looking at the suit when he's speaking.
I liked this version of Bizarro. I never understood the old one. A planet of opposites of the Superman "family", on a cube world? Huh? As much as I love Grant Morrison's All-Star Superman, I find the two-part Bizarro story unreadable, due to the way they speak.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 4, 2022 9:22:51 GMT -5
I think I remember Byrne drawing President Reagan and it looked pretty good.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 4, 2022 9:27:08 GMT -5
One of the great ironies of life (and perhaps I've posted this before in Shax's thread) is that Bryne turned Lex Luthor into Donald Trump.... DC had made Lex President.. then real life followed suit.
Now if only we can get some comic writer to whip up a GOOD president out of some super villain for 2024.... (not trying to talk politics, just pointing it out...)
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Post by badwolf on Jul 4, 2022 9:54:35 GMT -5
I think I remember Byrne drawing President Reagan and it looked pretty good. Looks ok to me.
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