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Post by Icctrombone on May 19, 2022 6:36:08 GMT -5
Not every team is the Avengers or JLA. There have been more than a few teams trotted out that just failed to sell or gain the love of the comic fan. Pick your least favorite. Please explain.
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Post by commond on May 19, 2022 6:38:21 GMT -5
You hate the original X-Men so much you listed them twice!
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2022 6:54:54 GMT -5
The Legion of Super-Heroes?
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Post by wildfire2099 on May 19, 2022 6:58:02 GMT -5
Definitely Bomber Jacket Avengers.. the Crystal/Quicksilver/Black Knight stuff was so BORING.
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Post by Icctrombone on May 19, 2022 7:06:35 GMT -5
You hate the original X-Men so much you listed them twice! Oops
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Post by Icctrombone on May 19, 2022 7:07:37 GMT -5
The Legion of Super-Heroes? After the Darkness saga , they lost their way and have been rebooted too many times. Plus, too many members.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2022 7:10:53 GMT -5
Okay, the Champions. Don’t hate them, did quite enjoy their tales, but let me explain my choice.
Perception is everything. It shouldn’t be, but it is. The best football teams (on a given day) might well be playing in the English Football League Championship, but the perception is that the Premier League is the place to be.
A cinema chain might not necessarily be interested in showing an independent film when the WB and Paramount brands are so ubiqituous.
When I first read The Champions, there was a perception issue. I’m not sure how I articulated it in my head as a kid, but through an adult mindset, I guess I thought, ‘Are the Champions those who couldn’t even make the rosters of the Defenders or Avengers?’ Yes, that’s unfair. Not true, most likely. But it’s that damn perception thing. Panda Cola was never gonna compete with Coca-Cola and Pepsi. It just felt like the Champions comprised individuals who both the Avengers and Defenders did not want.
I could be wrong, but that’s what it felt like. It felt C-list.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2022 7:36:59 GMT -5
The Legion of Super-Heroes? After the Darkness saga , they lost their way and have been rebooted too many times. Plus, too many members. Yeah, I was just joshing a bit, for the me the Great Darkness Saga is probably the creative high point overall. But the large ensemble is actually one of my favorite aspects of the book. Kind of reminds me why I like a lot of 80's cartoons like G.I. Joe and MOTU...huge cast and you get different opportunities to see them work in smaller teams or even solo, in addition to coming together as a larger group for bigger challenges.
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Post by tarkintino on May 19, 2022 7:40:44 GMT -5
The LSH from the 70s and 80s was one of the best teams / team books of that period.
I like the original X-Men far more than any version of the team to follow, and yes, that includes the 1975 new team.
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Post by badwolf on May 19, 2022 9:32:44 GMT -5
I'll go with the Champions. I had never even read them until a reprint comic came out a few years ago called "No Time For Losers." (It actually took me a while to get the joke...) It collected issues from the beginning and the end of the run. The first story arc was pretty bad, and the later one was only more enjoyable because John Byrne drew it.
It felt like such a random assortment of characters. Sometimes this works, as in the Defenders, but I don't think the Champions gelled in the same way.
I am also not a fan of Ghost Rider talking like Blaze, having eyeballs, or being on a team at all.
I haven't read much of JLA Detroit other than their final days leading up to Legends. I guess the team itself was somewhat lame, but I enjoyed that last arc. (Professor Ivo and T.O. Morrow team up and attempt to murder the JLA, succeeding in a couple cases.)
Jacketed Avengers I never read. I dislike the look, but have no idea about the stories.
No problem with X-Men or Legion (though as mentioned on another thread I have my favorite incarnation.)
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Post by commond on May 19, 2022 9:34:49 GMT -5
Whatever the answer is, I'm sure it's a team from the 90s. Maybe Bloodstrike, Force Works, or Extreme Justice. The Secret Defenders were around for a while. Superboy and the Ravers. The choices are endless.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on May 19, 2022 9:51:44 GMT -5
Not a fan of any of the above. The Champions were really awful though.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2022 16:02:33 GMT -5
Whatever the answer is, I'm sure it's a team from the 90s. Maybe Bloodstrike, Force Works, or Extreme Justice. The Secret Defenders were around for a while. Superboy and the Ravers. The choices are endless. That's where I'm at. Also from that decade, I want to say maybe the Heroes Reborn Avengers or FF (haven't read those in forever though). Regarding the Champions, had to pull my collected edition off the shelf to refresh my memory, but I did like the issues Black Goliath appeared in.
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Post by berkley on May 19, 2022 20:13:47 GMT -5
The Champions were a bad team put together for a bad reason - Marvel wants a new superhero team book, let's throw together a bunch of random characters with no connection other than they don't happen to be in any other teams at the moment. I didn't even particularly like the majority of the individual members - I had neutral feelings at best towards Iceman, Angel, and Ghost Rider - but for some reason I still kind of liked the series.
Byrne's art helped a lot, once he came on board; and, as Supercat mentioned, Black Goliath, a fairly new character back then, added something as well. But I had stayed with the series from the first issue before any of those changes or additions were made so there must have been something that kept me reading. Maybe I liked the Black Widow and Hercules enough to compensate for my indifference to the other members; and looking up the timing on Mike's Newsstand, I see that the series began right around the time I started getting back into comics after 2 or 3 years away, so probably I would have read any Marvel superhero team series at that time.
This has me thnking now how I would have changed the team if it had been up to me back then. Most likely I would have replaced the three characters I mentioned with others (but who?), kept Byrne as artist (but with a different inker), and perhaps tried to come up with a good reason for them to be together - though that probably didn't matter all that much to me at the time: they're Marvel superheroes, they all know each other, what more reason do they need?
Come to think of it, I don't recall what in-story explanation was given for the formation of the Champions - maybe Isabella did give them proper rasion d'etre after all, whatever it was.
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Post by codystarbuck on May 19, 2022 21:21:55 GMT -5
JL-Detroit, for me. Characters did nothing for me, too much seemed like a plea for the youth audience and Conway was running on fumes (had been, for a while, with the occasional rise to a better story). I pretty much tuned out of JLA after the 200th issue and any time I picked it up, I didn't see a reason to buy it, until the post-Legends relaunch.
Champions was a random grouping, for a bad reason; but, they at least tried.
All of that said, they are way better than any team put forward by the Image crowd.
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