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Post by dbutler69 on May 18, 2022 8:20:19 GMT -5
Original; but more the 70s and The Great Darkness Saga (with issues on both sides of it). I like some of the 60s stories; but, the 70s material felt more lively, with more dynamic art and more of a Star Trek vibe to the sci-fi elements. Read bits and pieces of the later stuff. 5 Years Later never really grabbed me, though I liked Chris Sprouse on the later Legionnaires. The Waid reboot was okay; but, I only read the beginning arc of it. Give me bell-bottoms, man-corsets, Trek-like spaceships, sideburns and the Science Police with funky rounded helmets and big goggles! Don't forget disco Brainiac!!
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 18, 2022 9:06:54 GMT -5
I can't decide!!! Each era has its moments of greatness and its faults.
I enjoyed the naivety of the Shooter issues, and later the creativity of Dave Cockrum's designs. However, the Legion feature rarely seemed to truly exploit its SF roots; it was mostly the Jetsons, only with superheroes. I was then hooked by the Great Darkness Saga, and the Levitz-Giffen team managed to keep me around for a good while. But as soon as Giffen left, it's as if the book was stuck in a repetitive and ultimately uninteresting pattern. I kept buying the odd book now and then to see how things were evolving, and wasn't thrilled.
Then came the 5YL concept, and I was hooked again -even more strongly than before. The novel-like type of storytelling, the rare idea of superheroes actually getting old (for real, not for some "imaginary story") and the political and sociological aspect of the first story arcs were absolutely engrossing. I particularly liked how elegantly continuity was rebooted, explaining why so many aliens were human-looking and superpowered. Unfortunately, the 5YL legion was also plagued by its own problems: an inappropriate devotion to fannish theories that ordinary readers knew nothing about, the unexplained snub suffered by major legionnaires like Wildfire, and ultimately a descent into depressing nihilism that made the title unpleasant. It's galling because several excellent subplots were simply dropped in favour of scenes in which our heroes mope and complain.
The post-zero hour and Archie Legion started with a sympathy deficit on my part, as I was pretty upset about DC rebooting the Legion title instead of fixing it. However, I grew to love its optimistic attitude and its very nice art (Jeffrey Moy was just perfect for such a title). That era even managed, eventually, to make me forget the original; it was a Legion I could accept as the new "real" one. It wasn't without problems, though: too many old storylines were revisited, and not always for the better. The new origin of Wildfire was a fosterclock, for example.
The DnA Legion was an extension of the Archie legion, and Legion of the Damned is probably my favourite arc ever (even surpassing the Great Darkness Saga). I think the impending cancellation of the Legion titles gave that arc a sense of urgency that made it feel even more significant; who knew if dead characters would ever come back, since we didn't even know if the title would be restarted or rebooted again? In any case, that arc plus the following Legion Lost were once again books that I had to read. But all good things must come to an end, and after the much hoped-for launch of The Legion, things went south. Concepts like Legion World and a rebuilt Earth were pretty good, but DnA apparently had no idea of how evolution works, making their first arc as nonsensical as the early ones involving Superboy pranking his friends by pretend-sinking American battleships. Then... ideas started drying up, and we got the kind of stories I hate -stories in which heroes are diminished for one reason or another. Depressing stuff I can get in real life, thank you very much!
After that, I stopped caring. I didn't see the point in making any emotional connection to characters that mattered so little to their corporate owners that they could be erased from continuity again and again, and waited to see how new incarnations would turn out. If readers said after a few years that the Legion of superheroes, version 4 or 5 or 6 was brilliant, I'd give it a try; if not, nostalia wouldn't be enough to bring me in. The same things happened with Conan, post-Marvel (and the Dark Horse version DID manage to win me over, unlike the most recent Marvel revival).
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Post by Dizzy D on May 18, 2022 9:47:20 GMT -5
I got into Legion with the DnA version and from that worked my way backwards (Legion was sadly never popular enough here to get translated, so I missed out on it as a child). So for me the DnA version remains the version against which all others are measured. Going backwards, I loved the Cockrum/Grell era, the 5 years later timeline and some snippets here and there. I didn't like Waid's first attempt at his Legion. I have the DC Showcase for the Silver Age stories, but it's more a novelty than stories I like.
Moving from DnA to the future: I also heavily disliked Waid's second attempt. I did like Shooter's run on that version of the Legion, but the way DC ended the title (plus DC shenanigans with Wildstorm around the same time) really turned me off DC as a publisher. As much as I disliked Waid's Legion attempts, I hated Geoff Johns attempts with Legion of 3 worlds even more (oh so many things I hated about that mini-series.). With the New 52 I gave the new Legion Lost a shot, but again it failed to grab me. And I gave Bendis a shot as well, but again, nothing that grabbed me (though I liked Ryan Sook's art on it).
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Post by tarkintino on May 18, 2022 10:07:00 GMT -5
Although I picked "Original (1959-1987)", this has a major asterisk next to it, as i'm not counting much of the pre-1970s issues. My favorites are the title under the Bates/Cockrum - Bates/Grell - Shooter/Grell period, then the Conway/Janes - Levitz/Giffen period. Each knew how to take full advantage of the basic concept and lift them out of the often silly Siver Age stories, finally having the characters behave like young heroes in a very imaginative setting with problems that were not going to be solved in 26 pages.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2022 10:23:11 GMT -5
I have a little different take on the "original era" definition. I know folks are mentioning periods within that timeframe that are more based on creative teams, overall storytelling direction, etc. But for me, part of the magic is that during the course of that entire time, we quite literally watched the Legion "grow up". Yes, the 60's stories were very campy. They were also portrayed as innocent young teens, and as the years unfolded, many events occur that have lasting consequnces. Characters die in the line of duty, and other than Lightning Lad early on, actually stay that way. Ferro Lad, Invisible Kid, Chemical King, and the loss of one of Triplicate Girl's selves. These deaths are often referenced over the years with reverence. Teen crushes turn into serious relationships, and eventually into marriages with Bouncing Boy and Duo Damsel, and Lightning Lad and Saturn Girl. Marriage turns into becoming parents in the latter case. Decisions to retire from active duty after years of service. One feels the passage of time, and by the 80's many of these Legionnaires are no longer kids and feel the weight of getting older. A brilliant exploration of this to me was in 1983 with Legion #306, an "interlude" issue between the action where Star Boy and Wildfire are hanging out watching the leader election results come in. Star Boy is sharing his story, and it goes back to those innocent Silver Age years, including reflecting on the events that led to his expulsion and later reinstatement. Curt Swan draws the flashback sequences that really nails the connection back. To me, it really captures the long road the Legion has had, and how life catches up with you and suddenly those young innocent years somehow fade away at some point. So for me it really is one comprehensive period about the same group of kids and how they grew up versus truly different "versions".
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Post by MDG on May 18, 2022 11:05:50 GMT -5
I put "original" but I only "like" the Levitz-Giffen part. I'll read Silver Age stories, but I usually end up thinking they're too stupid to really enjoy.
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Post by dbutler69 on May 18, 2022 16:10:54 GMT -5
I have a little different take on the "original era" definition. I know folks are mentioning periods within that timeframe that are more based on creative teams, overall storytelling direction, etc. But for me, part of the magic is that during the course of that entire time, we quite literally watched the Legion "grow up". Yes, the 60's stories were very campy. They were also portrayed as innocent young teens, and as the years unfolded, many events occur that have lasting consequnces. Characters die in the line of duty, and other than Lightning Lad early on, actually stay that way. Ferro Lad, Invisible Kid, Chemical King, and the loss of one of Triplicate Girl's selves. These deaths are often referenced over the years with reverence. Teen crushes turn into serious relationships, and eventually into marriages with Bouncing Boy and Duo Damsel, and Lightning Lad and Saturn Girl. Marriage turns into becoming parents in the latter case. Decisions to retire from active duty after years of service. One feels the passage of time, and by the 80's many of these Legionnaires are no longer kids and feel the weight of getting older. A brilliant exploration of this to me was in 1983 with Legion #306, an "interlude" issue between the action where Star Boy and Wildfire are hanging out watching the leader election results come in. Star Boy is sharing his story, and it goes back to those innocent Silver Age years, including reflecting on the events that led to his expulsion and later reinstatement. Curt Swan draws the flashback sequences that really nails the connection back. To me, it really captures the long road the Legion has had, and how life catches up with you and suddenly those young innocent years somehow fade away at some point. So for me it really is one comprehensive period about the same group of kids and how they grew up versus truly different "versions". Oh, I totally agree. The original Legion from 1959-1987 feels like one continuous, evolving Legion to me (obvious significant stylistic changes throughout due to creator changes) and I think that Levitz has a lot to do with that. He really made it feel like this was the same Legion, all grown up, during his 80's run.
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Post by commond on May 18, 2022 17:28:49 GMT -5
I don't think Shooter is being given enough credit for his stories. It's not as though they were like Silver Age X-Men stories. They were legitimately good stories, and he created a huge amount of the Legion's lore during his run. Just look at the number of characters he created. The fact that he did all that as a teenager is remarkable. Imagine being 14 years old and reading a comic book written by someone the same age as you. A guy who could be your classmate or peer. I struggle to see anything silly about the Shooter stories. They have some of the trappings of Silver Age comics, but at the time that they were written those weren't trappings. They were conventions. Sure, the Legion grew more sophisticated and sexy during the Bronze Age, but Shooter's Legion wasn't all "Gee Whiz, Cosmic Boy, we're late for the meeting at the clubhouse!" I do like the line about the Jetsons, though. Meet R.J. Brande. His boy Reep.
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Post by spoon on May 18, 2022 23:15:42 GMT -5
Little correction since it keeps getting repeated: the transition from the original LOSH to the 5YL version happened in 1989, not 1987.
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