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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2022 22:20:51 GMT -5
I’m watching the Blackstar cartoon this evening and it again makes me think of this thread. MOTU followed this (and Thundarr which also sometimes gets mentioned as a comparison) and there are a lot of similarities, but hard to call MOTU the photocopy considering it realized the big success. Yet it really did copy a lot of elements, so sometimes the “copy” serves to refine the prototype(s) to fully realize the most popular incarnation.
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Post by jason on May 9, 2022 22:49:29 GMT -5
You know, I seem to recall seeing ads and photos of cartoons such as Goober and the Ghost Chasers and Clue Club. I’ve never seen them (and perhaps shouldn’t judge them), but as Shawn Michaels once said, perception is everything; when I did see ads, I just thought I was looking at something that *might* have been an inferior bandwagon copy of Scooby-Doo. Who knows, perhaps those were GREAT cartoons, but perception and bias can lead a person to not bother with something. That’s just one example. I think Fangface was probably my favorite Doo-Knock-Off I liked Captain Caveman myself
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Post by foxley on May 10, 2022 2:31:16 GMT -5
Jim Starlin ripped-off 'photocopied' Darkseid to create Thanos in 1973, and has repeated the process at every comic company he has worked for since then, with the copies getting paler and less interesting with every iteration.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2022 2:55:51 GMT -5
Jim Starlin ripped-off 'photocopied' Darkseid to create Thanos in 1973, and has repeated the process at every comic company he has worked for since then, with the copies getting paler and less interesting with every iteration. Who are the others? (I know I could Google, but it’s easier to ask sometimes)
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Post by foxley on May 10, 2022 3:24:23 GMT -5
Jim Starlin ripped-off 'photocopied' Darkseid to create Thanos in 1973, and has repeated the process at every comic company he has worked for since then, with the copies getting paler and less interesting with every iteration. Who are the others? (I know I could Google, but it’s easier to ask sometimes) Mongul in Superman, Lord High Papal in Dreadstar, Deacon Dark in Mystery in Space, Onimar Synn in Rann–Thanagar War (technically Synn was created by Geoff Johns, but Starlin turned the character into another Thanos clone), Extrememax in Stormwatch...
I'm sure there are others, but I don't like Starlin and tend to avoid his work.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2022 3:32:22 GMT -5
I know Mongul, but I’ll Google the others.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2022 4:42:49 GMT -5
Going way back, here's a hero who very briefly appeared in one comic book, Captain Flight #11 in 1947. Named the "Blue Flame", he was obviously a clear Human Torch knockoff! But one can of course go back even earlier, like with the Big Red Cheese himself. Now some of us have argued in the past that the comparison of Captain Marvel to Superman may not be as close as it's sometimes made out to be, but as we all know National/DC sure spent the better part of a decade with a lawsuit against Fawcett making this claim!
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2022 6:27:11 GMT -5
Who are the others? (I know I could Google, but it’s easier to ask sometimes) Mongul in Superman, Lord High Papal in Dreadstar, Deacon Dark in Mystery in Space, Onimar Synn in Rann–Thanagar War (technically Synn was created by Geoff Johns, but Starlin turned the character into another Thanos clone), Extrememax in Stormwatch...
I'm sure there are others, but I don't like Starlin and tend to avoid his work.
Blimey. You’re not wrong, eh? I knew Mongul, but just Googled those. Pretty blatant. That has to be a record for “photocopies”.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2022 6:30:01 GMT -5
I wonder if anyone ever asked him to clarify his "fanboy" comment. I'm sure he could explain if someone asked politely. It was just Byrne being Byrne, I’m sure. As someone here once commented, I doubt Byrne even looked up the name of the writer on Batman ‘89. I’m sure “fanboys unleashed” could apply to a pet project like Star Trek: New Visions.
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Post by Icctrombone on May 10, 2022 6:31:42 GMT -5
I wonder if Starlin gets sole creator credit for Mongul. Len Wein wrote the issue.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 10, 2022 7:05:23 GMT -5
Sometimes a “photocopy” (even when that term might not be appropriate) does surprise me. I quite liked the WWF’s Demolition, they carved out their own niche despite being inspired, at least in part I guess, by the Road Warriors of the NWA/JCP. That’s nice. I wouldn’t even use “photocopy” to describe them and their run. And, as I said, Next Men was a pleasant surprise. Overall, though, I find something lacking in “photocopies”, both from a perception angle and in how they can be executed. Thoughts?
I'm usually ready to give people a chance when they take the ball and run with it, even when they obviously just copied someone else's idea. As someone once said, it's a good thing we don't have only one hard-drinking detective in a raincoat, one superstrong crimefighter who flies and one character flying through space in a rocket.
At the same time, it becomes quickly obvious when someone wants to do the same thing as creators X, Y and Z but has nothing original to bring to the table. A concept heavily inspired by the FF I can support, but not a low quality carbon-copy of the FF.
I'd say that the proof is in the pudding. Is the final result good? And if it is, does the author have the humility to admit that their work in derivative? If so I don't think I'd have any problem; it's borderline plagiarism that I frown upon.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2022 7:09:57 GMT -5
Great post, Roquefort Raider! (Loved the detective in a raincoat comment) Trio wasn’t compelling in any way, shape or form. Next Men was. I don’t know if Trio was a 4-issue mini-series or a book that got cancelled after four issues. Or whether it was a mini-series with other stories planned. I just know that I would have liked to have seen an FF “photocopy” do something edgier or compelling with the concept. So, yes, I agree, the proof is in the pudding. Wrestling fans who know of Demolition are gonna say (most likely) that Demolition carved out their own niche successfully. But there’s nothing successful about Trio.
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Post by arfetto on May 10, 2022 8:17:48 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2022 7:46:02 GMT -5
Another very blatant photocopy I was always intrigued by was Dave Cockrum's Imperial Guard in X-Men which was a very intentional knockoff of the Legion of Super-Heroes when he went to Marvel. You can easily match every character to their counterpart, similar to say the Squadron Supreme. I would love to have seen them explored more on their own versus just appearances in X-Men, purely in the spirit of "more of a good thing" since Cockrum's Legion was so excellent and the new costume designs he came up with for the Imperial Guard looked awesome IMO.
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Post by tonebone on May 12, 2022 9:44:26 GMT -5
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